On 20/05/15 12:55, Simon Lees wrote: > > > On 05/20/2015 08:29 PM, Tom Hacohen wrote: >> On 20/05/15 03:48, ChunEon Park wrote: >>> And additionally saying, >>> >>> EDC will break app theme compatibility acutally. >>> >>> If applications want to develop the system based themeable apps, >>> they should not touch the edc, they should write the gui with only elm >>> widgets. >>> >>> See the efl applications, the most application may write the layouts with >>> edc. >>> they design the layout look&feel compatible with current elm theme. >>> >>> Now say, if there new elm theme come? >>> How they guarantee their edj gui compatbile with new elm theme? >>> >>> The application gui will be totally broken or ugly. >>> >>> App should not use the edc as possible, >>> Writing edc is harmful potentially, app should depend on the gui with elm >>> controls more than edc. >>> We should not guide using edc in apps as possible. >> I'll properly reply to the next of the thread soon. However, just to >> touch what I think is the point of confusion here. >> >> While I generally agree with the notion of what you are saying about >> what developers want. > I'm just going to comment on this point well for now anyway and i'm > going to comment on it with my distribution integrator hat on more then > my theme designer or application developer hat on. If were talking about > embedded / mobile apps you have a fair point, I have spent a lot of the > last few years working on a embedded UI which looks nothing like a > desktop UI as it shouldn't, rather then using a full desktop toolkit all > you really need is a label images and a layout engine (gradients and the > ability to draw rounded rectangles are a bonus), this doesn't sound alot > like elm so elm is probably not the best solution here (we use a very > small subset of Qt but anyway i'm distracted) > > If were talking about desktop apps then there seems to be a fair > disconnect here between what developers want and what users want (as a > desktop integrate its my job to interact between the two groups). What > users want and what i'm often after is a consistent look and feel > between all there apps so they feel like they have 1 unified system. > Jeff, Duma and the rest of the bodhi team have put huge amounts of > effort into getting this right because its what there uses want (on > openSUSE were still getting there). If designers and developers want to > there apps to look special like chrome or spotify they are wrong because > users are always right (they will just stop using your apps) I refuse to > use apps these days that don't look reasonable against a properly dark > theme. > > The main reason people use Qt is because there apps will fit the system > regardless of what OS there running (OSX) users seem incredibly fussy to > the point where most people didn't consider using QML in desktop apps > until it supported native looking widgets. > > Thats all from me for now. >
I'm not sure about what users want. If you're asking me, I think users probably want (or should want) a consistent feel, and maybe a consistent look, the latter not being a must. If the web and app markets have taught us anything, is that app discovery is really hard, and devs would like to do whatever possible to stand out. Also, a platform needs to be flexible to let developers reach their full creative potential, not force them to a unified look if they would rather not be forced to do it. If users think otherwise, let them vote with their feet and not use those apps, though I doubt that will ever be the case. I think the main reason *developers* use Qt is because it's cross-platform and actually runs on all of these platforms and doesn't look butt ugly. I think whatever else there is sugar on top. Not sure about QML adoption, but if I had to guess, it was just a matter of time and polish, and we can't really point on a specific feature and claim it's responsible for everything. This is however what I think, not what Elementary does (although Elementary enables what I want too, which is themeable applications regardless of the system theme with it being possible to use the default theme). I also believe that developers, and not end-users are our clients, and we should adjust ourselves to their needs, not the needs of the end-users, because if developers don't use our software, neither will end-users. -- Tom. > Simon Lees > > openSUSE Enlightenment Maintainer. > >> You are off the point here. Elementary the widget >> toolkit is themeable and that's one of the visions/promises of it. You >> don't like it? You probably shouldn't be using elementary. >> The right place for what you want is not in elementary, it's in a >> separate toolkit that is not themeable. That's similar to what Daniel >> Kolesa said (which is in turn a summary of what we talked about on irc), >> you need a libnon-themeable-elm that does that. >> >> Why? Again, because it's not part of Elm's vision, for better or worse >> that's the promise our users get. >> >> -- >> Tom. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud >> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications >> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights >> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. >> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y >> _______________________________________________ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
