On 4/5/21 2:54 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 17:40:21 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de> said:
On 4/4/21 5:02 PM, Francesc Guasch wrote:
On 04/04/2021 05:09, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 10:20:15 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de>
said:
On 4/4/21 5:52 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 17:55:23 +0200 Francesc Guasch
<fran...@telecos.upc.edu>
said:
Hi. I am running Enlightenment 0.24.99 24520.
It has always run smooth on my lapton, this is a 2005 Toshiba
with 4 GB RAM. It sports an Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960
Integrated Graphics Controller.
I know I am pushing the limit here, sorry for that. Since the last
release changing windows with ALT-TAB takes 2 / 3 seconds. After the
window changes the list of tasks is shown and the back desktop is
blurred for a few seconds. Then the selected window is shown and I can
use it.
how is it blurred. the default theme does not blur the background. i
tried
that a while back in flat but testing on an older machine showed it
could
not keep up (a 2010 intel laptop with intel gpu) and dropped to like
20-30fps, so i disabled the filter and it just darkens what is
below... so
what you describe must be an altered theme?
Sorry if I barge in into the discussion here. Just yesterday I also
updated after some weeks again to he current git versions, now with the
flat theme, and experienced the same "issue". (BTW, I also ran into the
elput issue and had a jolly time figuring out that I need to enable the
DRM option.)
I guess what Francesc intended was exactly this fading to a darker
background. On my machine here (i7-3517U) it takes probably about a
second. But it is no smooth transition and rather seems to be stuttering
along the way, thus feeling really as if the machine is struggling to
keep up with rendering this transition. The effect is that the whole
process of switching windows feels very sluggish and seems to take ages.
I was also (unsuccessfully) looking around for a way to switch off this
transition effect. Switching between windows with Alt-Tab is a very
common action and I would like this to be over in literally in the blink
of an eye. One can actually quickly switch windows in the current state,
cutting the whole transition short right at the start. Still, I would
prefer if I can have the window list either appear instantaneously or
with a really fast fade-in and -out.
(BTW, this is using the window switcher in list mode, not in large mode
where this whole background darkening is probably really necessary as
there is otherwise no window to separate the list from the normal
desktop.)
Maybe I didn't explain good enough. I reproduce it pressing ALT-TAB
while I have some windows open. I don't know about window siwtcher in
list mode or large mode that Florian talked about.
Cheers and thanks as always for the great work,
Florian
also a large number of maximized windows (a lot of pixels to render)
will slow
down even the best of gpu's if you have enough of them... smaller windows
render faster in miniature (the input window is smaller). and both the
old list
mode and large mode how show these miniatures and thus render
everything you
see which costs.. the more you have visible, the more it costs. it
costs even
more in software rendering than a gpu... the "i dont even see the fade
animation" hints to me it's software compositing or a very large
number of
large windows.
Hey ! Thanks for stepping in Florian. I was wrong, the problem was not
on the fading of the background, but on the app windows.
I too built with the latest git commits but it didn't fix it for me.
Is it running faster ? Maybe, I am not sure, but it is still slow.
Right now I have a couple of Thunderbird windows and a Terminology
and it is paifull. Probably because of the large Thunderbird window
that takes all the screen. xrandr shows 1680x1050 60.00*
Just to summarize:
- Large Windows: yes, it gets worse with those. But just a gvim and
a terminology also is noticeable slow.
- Composite: OpenGL
. glxinfo: direct rendering: Yes
And now what may be the root of the problem: Turning rendering to
software or opengl won't make a change. So the conclusion may be this
laptop is way too old. I tried if I could download drivers but the
Ubuntu software tool won't show any. With lsmod I see i915.
I guess 2020 Enlightenment task switch was way faster because it
probably didn't have this transition.
I actually made the same observation, software rendering and openGL
won't make a difference. I thought this odd at that time. However, now
that we know its the previews and not the transition effect, it probably
makes sense. Seen that Raster has some dithering algorithm doing the
down-scaling its probably down to the CPU to do this. The way you put
the result on the screen, software or openGL, won't affect the time
required then. At least that's my understanding now.
On a different note: I am a bit worried about this "laptop is way too
old" feeling. For me one of the selling points of linux in general and
also E in particular was and is that it is supposed to also run fine on
non-bleeding edge hardware. I am all in for fancy effects where the
hardware is capable of doing it but I hope to at least have the options
somewhere to cut back on the eye-candy and convenience functions (like,
e.g. real-time preview thumbnails) so that the system is still fun to
use on less capable computers.
BTW... you could have just removed the swallow for the win miniatures from the
theme and it'd have been fast again... themes are intended to be
user-manageable. different to source code. just because you don't know HOW to
tune something for your system doesn't mean it isn't possible.
Of course, being open source I can always make any changes myself.
Nothing is impossible. I was even considering that. I am not so sure
whether for E the theme is really different from source code. Theming in
the world of E means learning some special kind of theme programming
language and even needs a compiler to create the final theme file. Isn't
that at least very close to source code?
Anyways, for the fun of it I now tried to track down where the actual
theme of E can be found. Not an easy task. Indeed, I have to admit
defeat for now. I would have expected to find the source files for the
edj files somewhere around. It seems I am mistaken.
Also, building a custom theme modification means opening the Pandora's
box to always manually merge my own changes into the changes of the
"official" theme. I am indeed doing this with other projects. Not the
most fun activity (which you have spared me from now)
Finally, I wouldn't have known that just removing the display bits of
the miniature from the theme would actually also disable the internal
rendering of the thumbnails. It seemed quite probable that at that point
the code just assumed that the miniatures will always be needed and
prepared them in any case.
OK, enough of that.
Again, I am happy that you made this an option now. :-)
Keep in mind that out of the box things are not going to be tuned for ancient
hardware anymore. It means sacrificing a good experience for those who do not
have ancient hardware - or well sacrificing the "wow" you get. Reality is the
people on very old hardware are going to have to do some work to turn things
off and change settings and tweak. In this cas all you had to do wans delete
thw e.swallow.win part in the winlist list items... and winlist would not have
put the miniature preview there. :).
Once you know exactly what needs to be done it is always easy. ;-)
You could argue people with a c64 can't run linux and they will complain it's
too fat and bloated. There is always someone with old enough hardware who will
struggle with modern software out of the box. That's life. It's why you upgrade
your hardware - to get yourself a better experience. In fact it generally gets
you a better experience and better battery life too, given the major advances
in power efficiency in more modern systems. The systems are capable of doing
much more out of the box and also of having much better battery usability. Yes
- it costs money to upgrade.
My advice might be to consider an upgrade just to get a better experience
anyway. Compiles will be a lot faster. battery life better, and you can have
more eyecandy ... :)
Jep, wholeheartedly agreed on that. I am longing for the day that a
"worthy" successor to my venerable but still impeccable Series 9
notebook appears.
Cheers,
Florian
Anyway, still a happy user here who is thankful for all the effort of
the developers to provide us with a system that I can use both at work
and at home for well over a decade now. :-)
Cheers,
Florian
I really appreciate you took the time to look at this and try an
optimization just for us. Thanks a lot !
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