On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 13:15:46 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de> said:
> On 4/5/21 2:54 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 17:40:21 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de> said: > > > >> On 4/4/21 5:02 PM, Francesc Guasch wrote: > >>> On 04/04/2021 05:09, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > >>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 10:20:15 +0900 Florian Schaefer <list...@netego.de> > >>>> said: > >>>> > >>>>> On 4/4/21 5:52 AM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 17:55:23 +0200 Francesc Guasch > >>>>>> <fran...@telecos.upc.edu> > >>>>>> said: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi. I am running Enlightenment 0.24.99 24520. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It has always run smooth on my lapton, this is a 2005 Toshiba > >>>>>>> with 4 GB RAM. It sports an Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 > >>>>>>> Integrated Graphics Controller. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I know I am pushing the limit here, sorry for that. Since the last > >>>>>>> release changing windows with ALT-TAB takes 2 / 3 seconds. After the > >>>>>>> window changes the list of tasks is shown and the back desktop is > >>>>>>> blurred for a few seconds. Then the selected window is shown and I can > >>>>>>> use it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> how is it blurred. the default theme does not blur the background. i > >>>>>> tried > >>>>>> that a while back in flat but testing on an older machine showed it > >>>>>> could > >>>>>> not keep up (a 2010 intel laptop with intel gpu) and dropped to like > >>>>>> 20-30fps, so i disabled the filter and it just darkens what is > >>>>>> below... so > >>>>>> what you describe must be an altered theme? > >>>>> > >>>>> Sorry if I barge in into the discussion here. Just yesterday I also > >>>>> updated after some weeks again to he current git versions, now with the > >>>>> flat theme, and experienced the same "issue". (BTW, I also ran into the > >>>>> elput issue and had a jolly time figuring out that I need to enable the > >>>>> DRM option.) > >>>>> > >>>>> I guess what Francesc intended was exactly this fading to a darker > >>>>> background. On my machine here (i7-3517U) it takes probably about a > >>>>> second. But it is no smooth transition and rather seems to be stuttering > >>>>> along the way, thus feeling really as if the machine is struggling to > >>>>> keep up with rendering this transition. The effect is that the whole > >>>>> process of switching windows feels very sluggish and seems to take ages. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was also (unsuccessfully) looking around for a way to switch off this > >>>>> transition effect. Switching between windows with Alt-Tab is a very > >>>>> common action and I would like this to be over in literally in the blink > >>>>> of an eye. One can actually quickly switch windows in the current state, > >>>>> cutting the whole transition short right at the start. Still, I would > >>>>> prefer if I can have the window list either appear instantaneously or > >>>>> with a really fast fade-in and -out. > >>>>> > >>>>> (BTW, this is using the window switcher in list mode, not in large mode > >>>>> where this whole background darkening is probably really necessary as > >>>>> there is otherwise no window to separate the list from the normal > >>>>> desktop.) > >>>>> > >>> > >>> Maybe I didn't explain good enough. I reproduce it pressing ALT-TAB > >>> while I have some windows open. I don't know about window siwtcher in > >>> list mode or large mode that Florian talked about. > >>> > >>>>> Cheers and thanks as always for the great work, > >>>>> Florian > >>>> > >>>> also a large number of maximized windows (a lot of pixels to render) > >>>> will slow > >>>> down even the best of gpu's if you have enough of them... smaller windows > >>>> render faster in miniature (the input window is smaller). and both the > >>>> old list > >>>> mode and large mode how show these miniatures and thus render > >>>> everything you > >>>> see which costs.. the more you have visible, the more it costs. it > >>>> costs even > >>>> more in software rendering than a gpu... the "i dont even see the fade > >>>> animation" hints to me it's software compositing or a very large > >>>> number of > >>>> large windows. > >>>> > >>> Hey ! Thanks for stepping in Florian. I was wrong, the problem was not > >>> on the fading of the background, but on the app windows. > >>> I too built with the latest git commits but it didn't fix it for me. > >>> Is it running faster ? Maybe, I am not sure, but it is still slow. > >>> > >>> Right now I have a couple of Thunderbird windows and a Terminology > >>> and it is paifull. Probably because of the large Thunderbird window > >>> that takes all the screen. xrandr shows 1680x1050 60.00* > >>> > >>> Just to summarize: > >>> > >>> - Large Windows: yes, it gets worse with those. But just a gvim and > >>> a terminology also is noticeable slow. > >>> - Composite: OpenGL > >>> . glxinfo: direct rendering: Yes > >>> > >>> And now what may be the root of the problem: Turning rendering to > >>> software or opengl won't make a change. So the conclusion may be this > >>> laptop is way too old. I tried if I could download drivers but the > >>> Ubuntu software tool won't show any. With lsmod I see i915. > >>> I guess 2020 Enlightenment task switch was way faster because it > >>> probably didn't have this transition. > >> > >> I actually made the same observation, software rendering and openGL > >> won't make a difference. I thought this odd at that time. However, now > >> that we know its the previews and not the transition effect, it probably > >> makes sense. Seen that Raster has some dithering algorithm doing the > >> down-scaling its probably down to the CPU to do this. The way you put > >> the result on the screen, software or openGL, won't affect the time > >> required then. At least that's my understanding now. > >> > >> On a different note: I am a bit worried about this "laptop is way too > >> old" feeling. For me one of the selling points of linux in general and > >> also E in particular was and is that it is supposed to also run fine on > >> non-bleeding edge hardware. I am all in for fancy effects where the > >> hardware is capable of doing it but I hope to at least have the options > >> somewhere to cut back on the eye-candy and convenience functions (like, > >> e.g. real-time preview thumbnails) so that the system is still fun to > >> use on less capable computers. > > > > BTW... you could have just removed the swallow for the win miniatures from > > the theme and it'd have been fast again... themes are intended to be > > user-manageable. different to source code. just because you don't know HOW > > to tune something for your system doesn't mean it isn't possible. > > Of course, being open source I can always make any changes myself. > Nothing is impossible. I was even considering that. I am not so sure > whether for E the theme is really different from source code. Theming in > the world of E means learning some special kind of theme programming > language and even needs a compiler to create the final theme file. Isn't > that at least very close to source code? it's no different to css/html. if modifying some css == p rogramming, then ok,it's programming, but you do not have to modify flow of code. no actual turing-complete things needed. yes - edje can do truning-complete things like js in a web page. but it's not needed to just remove an element. the compiler does transform the data but it's basically almost all 1:1 - it's much more like zip/tar for a bunch of html/css ... some little segments of edje can have "code" (script segments). > Anyways, for the fun of it I now tried to track down where the actual > theme of E can be found. Not an easy task. Indeed, I have to admit > defeat for now. I would have expected to find the source files for the > edj files somewhere around. It seems I am mistaken. find default.edj (it installs to PREFIX/share/elementary/themes by default where PREFIX is the install prefix for efl - normally /usr/local unless you change it. to "unzip": edje_decc default.edj it'll create a dir the same name of the theme. i.e. "default" inside of that is all the content. all images, sounds, and edc files (and anything else). edje_decc generates a build.sh for you in that dir. just run it to re-build the theme after editing. to replace the default theme just replace the system installed default.edj with the default.edj it generates. you can have a user personal copy in ~/.elementary/themes/ and the same named .edj file will override the system one. themes can (unless you jump through some hoops) always be decompressed with edje_decc and then rebuilt after edits. 99% of what edje_cc is doing is compressing the theme (that included encoding images in the chosen encoding in the edc). fyi the file u wanted to modify id winlist.edc ... :) > Also, building a custom theme modification means opening the Pandora's > box to always manually merge my own changes into the changes of the > "official" theme. I am indeed doing this with other projects. Not the > most fun activity (which you have spared me from now) correct. it does open up that box. but 99% of what can be customised in e/efl is in the theme - the vasty majority of things are punted off to the theme to decide... animations, spacing, padding, layout, sizing, colors, images, icons.... :) > Finally, I wouldn't have known that just removing the display bits of > the miniature from the theme would actually also disable the internal > rendering of the thumbnails. It seemed quite probable that at that point > the code just assumed that the miniatures will always be needed and > prepared them in any case. nope - as it was a new feature it was backwards compatible with older themes :) not doing this would have led to junk objects on the screen as they would have nowhere to go... :) > OK, enough of that. > Again, I am happy that you made this an option now. :-) > > > Keep in mind that out of the box things are not going to be tuned for > > ancient hardware anymore. It means sacrificing a good experience for those > > who do not have ancient hardware - or well sacrificing the "wow" you get. > > Reality is the people on very old hardware are going to have to do some > > work to turn things off and change settings and tweak. In this cas all you > > had to do wans delete thw e.swallow.win part in the winlist list items... > > and winlist would not have put the miniature preview there. :). > > Once you know exactly what needs to be done it is always easy. ;-) > > > You could argue people with a c64 can't run linux and they will complain > > it's too fat and bloated. There is always someone with old enough hardware > > who will struggle with modern software out of the box. That's life. It's > > why you upgrade your hardware - to get yourself a better experience. In > > fact it generally gets you a better experience and better battery life too, > > given the major advances in power efficiency in more modern systems. The > > systems are capable of doing much more out of the box and also of having > > much better battery usability. Yes > > - it costs money to upgrade. > > > > My advice might be to consider an upgrade just to get a better experience > > anyway. Compiles will be a lot faster. battery life better, and you can have > > more eyecandy ... :) > > Jep, wholeheartedly agreed on that. I am longing for the day that a > "worthy" successor to my venerable but still impeccable Series 9 > notebook appears. > > Cheers, > Florian > > >> Anyway, still a happy user here who is thankful for all the effort of > >> the developers to provide us with a system that I can use both at work > >> and at home for well over a decade now. :-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Florian > >> > >>> I really appreciate you took the time to look at this and try an > >>> optimization just for us. Thanks a lot ! > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> enlightenment-users mailing list > >>> enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> enlightenment-users mailing list > >> enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com _______________________________________________ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
