Hello Roger I think we are tuning somehow the same channel, and may be using different words trying to point the same.
> o What I call a complete definition of what is present, which is > equivalent to a boundary or edge defining what is contained within, I > think could also be called information in that the complete definition > tells what is contained within and thus provides information. I agree with this, so I will switch to "complete definition" instead using the word "information", Just want to remark that the complete definition should be in this model the boundary itself, and regardless what is contained within, that boundary is different of the contained package. Goes beyond since it needs to separate at least two different environments. Defining completely its contents is equivalent to define what that content is not. The negative part of that content is as well a complete definition, even not being or not existent. Is here where I like to use the word "absence", which in no sense means not existing but "not here" In binary systems that absence is represented by a zero (0), or better said the lack of a signal on any given surface, the lack of that signal is filled with language. In reality that 0 mark assumes the representation of something which did not show up. That something is absent, not here, not within the contained part, although certainly is part of the complete definition if I may say. For instance, if I encode "Roger" into a common binary sequence you will have your name expressed as: 0101001001101111011001110110010101110010 (you can play with this at: http://www.nickciske.com/tools/binary.php) A computer system would print just a few signals (the 1s), and would leave empty spaces represented by the 0s, that empty space is meaningful because of its relative position to the only signal (1) I believe this is just another way of saying: > The complete absence is independent of our mind's conception of it, and, in > and of itself, > completely describes the entirety of what is there and is thus really > an existent state." rgds Carlos On Aug 22, 2:26 am, Roger <roger...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Carlos, > > Hi. I'm not sure if I completely understand, but what I'd say in > response is that: > > o What I call a complete definition of what is present, which is > equivalent to a boundary or edge defining what is contained within, I > think could also be called information in that the complete definition > tells what is contained within and thus provides information. > > o I prefer to not just say "information" without defining what is > meant by that. Physicists do this all the time, but what exactly is > information? To me, it doesn't matter what you call the fundamental > unit of existence (information, mathematical constructs, matter, > fundamental particles, etc.), it still exists, and the key is finding > out why it exists instead of not existing. I think by saying that a > thing exists if what is contained within or meant by that thing is > completely defined is at least a mechanism or reason for why things > exist. Then, once knowing why the fundamental thing exists, I'd agree > with you in saying that this complete definition is equivalent to > information. > > o I agree completely that the universe is composed of one fundamental > kind of existent state (or particle). If physicists and philosophers > really want a unified theory of the universe, this is about as unified > as you can get. What I'm suggesting is that this fundamental existent > state is equivalent to what we've traditionally, and incorrectly, > thought of as the complete lack-of-all, or non-existence, because this > complete lack-of-all, in and of itself, completely describes the > entirety of what is there and is thus a complete definition or an > existent state. Whether or not its called the complete lack-of-all > or absence-of-information, I think the reason we've always incorrectly > thought of it as an absence of something is because we're forced to > think of it within our minds, which exist and which have information. > Next to our minds, it just looks like a complete absence. But, this > complete lack-of-all/absence-of information, and not our mind's > conception of it, doesn't face this constraint. The complete absence > is independent of our mind's conception of it, and, in and of itself, > completely describes the entirety of what is there and is thus really > an existent state. Whether you call this existent state information > or something else doesn't matter; it's the fundamental unit of > existence. Overall, this sounds very similar to what you're saying > that "the absence of information is some kind of information". > > So, sorry for such a long-winded reply, and I think I pretty much > agree with you. What you call information, I prefer to call a > complete definition because it kind of describes more of a mechanism/ > reason for what it means. > > Thanks! > > Roger > > On Aug 20, 3:15 pm, einseele <einse...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Roger > > > In case that boundary gives substance and existence, would you agree > > that information matches as a concept that boundary definition. > > And if so, would you agree that that boundary contacts both the inner > > and outer components of this model. > > And if so, would you also agree that the outer hand of that boundary > > somehow is related to the non existent part (non existent to the inner > > object). > > If we could imagine an universe made of just one particle, the outer > > space of that universe being non existent should have at least an > > attribute, not having the only particle, would you agree that that > > only attribute is enough to completely define the only particle within > > its counterpart universe. > > In other words, could be that the absence of information is some kind > > of information. And if so would you agree that that kind is the only > > information possible. > > > I would of course. To me information is the absent part of the > > equation > > > Thank you too > > > Carlos > > > On Aug 19, 3:32 am, Roger <roger...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Carlos, > > > > Hi. Thanks for the comment and for reading my posting! The idea > > > that the complete definition of something is a boundary or edge that > > > gives substance and existence to a thing seems to make sense to me. > > > Also, it sounds similar to stuff physicists are talking about now such > > > as string theory (strings seem like boundaries) and that we may be > > > holographic projections from a membrane (ie, boundary). Thanks again! > > > > Roger > > > > On Aug 18, 9:09 am, einseele <einse...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I found your post very interesting! > > > > > A philosophical engineering is possible yes I'm sure. > > > > In other words, to develop certain objects, right through pure > > > > speculation, which are able to interact in a third position which is > > > > not purely scientific or philosophic. (if I got correctly the > > > > expression) > > > > > Called my attention what you called here the "boundary" which "gives" > > > > substance. > > > > > best > > > > > Carlos > > > > > On Aug 18, 2:26 am, Roger <roger...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > If anyone is interested, I put some of my ideas on why things > > > > > exist, why is there something rather than nothing, and infinite sets > > > > > at the following website: > > > > > >https://sites.google.com/site/ralphthewebsite/ > > > > > > The abstract of the "Why do things exist and why is there > > > > > something rather than nothing?" paper is also below. Thank you! > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > Why Do Things Exist and Why is There Something Rather than Nothing? > > > > > > Abstract > > > > > > In this paper, I propose solutions to the questions "Why do things > > > > > exist?" and "Why is there something rather than nothing?" In regard > > > > > to the first question, "Why do things exist?", it is argued that a > > > > > thing exists if the contents of, or what is meant by, that thing are > > > > > completely defined. A complete definition is equivalent to an edge or > > > > > boundary defining what is contained within and giving “substance” and > > > > > existence to the thing. In regard to the second question, "Why is > > > > > there something rather than nothing?", "nothing", or non-existence, is > > > > > first defined to mean: no energy, matter, volume, space, time, > > > > > thoughts, concepts, mathematical truths, etc.; and no minds to think > > > > > about this lack-of-all. It is then shown that this non-existence > > > > > itself, not our mind's conception of non-existence, is the complete > > > > > description, or definition, of what is present. That is, no energy, > > > > > no matter, no volume, no space, no time, no thoughts, etc., in and of > > > > > itself, describes, defines, or tells you, exactly what is present. > > > > > Therefore, as a complete definition of what is present, "nothing", or > > > > > non-existence, is actually an existent state. So, what has > > > > > traditionally been thought of as "nothing", or non-existence, is, when > > > > > seen from a different perspective, an existent state or "something". > > > > > Said yet another way, non-existence can appear as either "nothing" or > > > > > "something" depending on the perspective of the observer. Another > > > > > argument is also presented that reaches this same conclusion. > > > > > Finally, this reasoning is used to form a primitive model of the > > > > > universe via what I refer to as "philosophical engineering". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. 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