interlocking dependencies.... that I definitely agree with... I'm also encouraged by your pointing to "lobbies"....and "Campaign financing".... we might have common ground to complain about , there...
On Monday, April 15, 2013 11:26:33 AM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: > > Financial decisions are distorted by government policies and government > policies are distorted by campaign financing and lobbying. You can't > untangle the mess until you get their interlocking dependencies unravelled. > > Lonnie Courtney Clay > > > On Monday, April 15, 2013 8:13:09 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: >> >> Lonnie Clay.... I see your latest post....I think I get the message, you >> are asking me to study your view more, I gather....That's a lot of >> material.... I'll try (at least some of it)..... But I think that you and I >> are focusing on different "things"... you seem to fault the "government" >> for taxation and budget surpluses.... but I tend to fault the private >> economy, myself.... Can you, on the other hand, consider my side of it (the >> argument) in return?... After all.... it was the Wall Street banking and >> financial "private" sectors that put us all in the current post 2008 >> collapse mess..... what do you say? >> >> On Sunday, April 14, 2013 6:31:57 PM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/epistemology/bifkhGn816g >>> >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/talk.politics.misc/QHC5EmTCysc >>> >>> 1) Economies are the aggregate activity of millions of businesses >>> patronized by consumers, employing workers. >>> 2) Businesses are controlled by investments of the wealthy top 1% of >>> population and banks. >>> 3) The wealthy are taxed by governments. The decision of how to invest >>> wealth depends upon taxation. >>> 4) Government taxation is determined by legislators. >>> 5) Legislators are controlled by the population at elections. >>> 6) The population is controlled by selective information distribution >>> rather than objective reporting. >>> 7) In the case of legislative and executive elections, advertising is >>> paid for by wealthy campaign contributors. >>> 8) Those contributors seek to minimize their taxes and maximize control >>> of the population through social programs. >>> 9) Social programs in reality are a bribe for the unwary to keep them in >>> mental darkness and dependent upon government. >>> 10) By decoupling the decision of how to invest from taxation, the >>> incentive for the wealthy to control government is reduced. >>> 11) By the elimination of elections using proxy legislators, the >>> incentive to keep people misinformed is reduced. >>> 12) The result should be increased investment, employment of marginal >>> workers, reduction of social programs, and prosperity. >>> >>> Lonnie Courtney Clay >>> >>> On Sunday, April 14, 2013 11:31:14 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: >>>> >>>> Lonnie.... I might (which is a polite way of saying I do) disagree with >>>> some of your proposals of ways to get there.... but I think your "heart" >>>> is >>>> in the right place about trying to solve the problem ... >>>> >>>> entertainment.... and personal pleasure-seeking.....as a guiding >>>> principle....hedonism in its worst sense.... but then there was Epicurus >>>> who "moderated" it a bit and made that "pleasure-principle" work, too...... >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism >>>> >>>> I will grant that there is a lot of misguided personal pleasure driven >>>> motivation out there.... >>>> >>>> But then, there are other personal "motivations" too... apart from >>>> "pleasure" vs "pain"....There are all sorts of other different >>>> motivations, >>>> for different people.... I won't try to list them...... >>>> >>>> Broadly speaking, I don't think that all of it (the problem) can be >>>> laid at the feet of the person... the individual. >>>> >>>> I'm more interested here to bring up the issue of whether there's a >>>> "system" bias (or problem) in the "real-world" economies that are socially >>>> instated... Im interested in how the "big-picture" Capitalist economic >>>> game is played (because, I've faced it.... Capitalism is the only >>>> "presently standing" actual economic "game" left out there). The problem, >>>> I >>>> think, is in the system... the Capitalist "game" is not working, >>>> either.....it needs to be "tweaked" somehow... or directed/regulated so >>>> that the "destructive" parts of the "capitalist" game are stopped.... >>>> that's my counter, Lonnie..... Bank failures.... high unemployment (no >>>> jobs >>>> to have)... etc...... A lot of that is over and above the capacity of the >>>> person to fix "inside" of him or herself.... >>>> >>>> Even if the "single person" is motivated the best that he or she may >>>> be......the system "in place" still would not work right...I think..... >>>> the >>>> proof is in the fact that with all the bail-outs, quantitative easeings, >>>> government austerity... etc....the problems persist.... >>>> >>>> WHY?... I say it's because the basic "Capitalist" mechanisms that >>>> spawned the economic collapses have not, themselves, been changed (either >>>> at all or enough).... Bring back Glass-Steagall -plus- banking >>>> regulations.... clean out all the banking dodges and havens.... prosecute >>>> and recoup as much of the stolen funds possible,then maybe economies will >>>> start "working".... instead of "stealing"... HAR >>>> >>>> On Saturday, April 13, 2013 11:55:10 AM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: >>>>> >>>>> http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.ZS >>>>> Nations whose governments give free handouts to the unemployed have a >>>>> falling workforce rate. >>>>> >>>>> Lonnie Courtney Clay >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, April 13, 2013 8:16:06 AM UTC-7, Lonnie Clay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Worldwide economies are foundering upon the rocks of modern >>>>>> entertainments. I'll make the case for that. The rational response of a >>>>>> person to a stimulus is to do more of those things which bring pleasure >>>>>> rather than punishment or boredom. With the rise of fiction in all of >>>>>> its >>>>>> forms, a person can gain pleasure from imagined world-scapes outside of >>>>>> the >>>>>> "real" world's boundaries of experience. The pleasure of working life >>>>>> achievement is limited to those who are both talented and trained to >>>>>> exercise their talents. So which one do people choose when given the >>>>>> alternatives? They increasingly choose entertainment, escaping from >>>>>> their >>>>>> fruitless humdrum day to day existences into imaginary worlds of >>>>>> achievement. One reason for that is the lack of opportunities in the >>>>>> modern >>>>>> economy resulting from the failure of the educational systems to prepare >>>>>> people for productive working careers. Another is the cultural shift >>>>>> towards self-gratification rather than service to society. A third is >>>>>> the >>>>>> diminished rewards from working resulting from the marginal reduction of >>>>>> income increase resulting from government's taxation of wages economic >>>>>> activity. Why work harder to gain more income when the government takes >>>>>> away more and more as your income rises? Yet another is the diminished >>>>>> cost >>>>>> of life's necessities and modest luxuries due to increased efficiency of >>>>>> production from product mass manufacturing. Why work harder when you >>>>>> have >>>>>> everything which you need? >>>>>> >>>>>> These factors result in diminished work force participation, the rise >>>>>> of the welfare class, fewer employees working hard, market dislocations, >>>>>> and diminished work ethics. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lonnie Courtney Clay >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, April 12, 2013 7:48:51 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Because it is so screwed up throughout the world that not fixing it >>>>>>> is bound to lead to great social upheaval?????..... I think so. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to epistemology+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to epistemology@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
