I don't consider wealth as filthy. To get the same amount of money as all of the taxes on economic activity combined would require a tax rate of about 3% on wealth. Which is why I say tax wealth not economic activity. Any student of control theory will tell you that you put the feedback controls on outputs of integrators, not on the inputs. Wealth is the cumulative result of economic activity...
Lonnie Courtney Clay On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:33:41 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: > > > http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-19/u-k-s-top-credit-grade-cut-by-fitch-on-economy-fiscal-outlook.html > > I read the above about British Credit Rating drop....Below is what "they" > say about Germany's > > > http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/article/3350/moodys-warns-on-german-economic-growth > > I wonder what "they" will have to say about the U.S. Govt....... when they > get to it again.... > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrade > > > I am NOT optimistic for anyone, these days....I agree with your point > (which I've seconded before) Archytas, of direct injections of "state" > funding into project work.... I've said it before.... it is well past > proven that all the money that has been given to the financial sector > "banksters and traitors" has not done much (at all) for the majority of > people..... unfortunately... talk is cheap and it will probably take more > direct "acts" to prod the "bought-off" corporate politicians to do anything > of the sort.... The big problem is, of course.... there's only so much > money that can be given out by the Govt., before the newly-printed stuff > loses all value..... then the only way to go is for the Govt.s to "get" the > money through "taxation" where it is at... in the pockets of the "filthy" > rich...... HAR... Lonnie will love that idea... > > > On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:11:10 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >> >> Kleptopia: Wie uns Finanzindustrie, Politik und Banken für dumm >> verkaufen - How Our Financial Sector, Politicians and Bankers Take Us >> For Fools - has just crossed my desk. This has an interesting tack on >> how Germany - perhaps the closes model of a modern economy - or at >> least ordinary Germans are ripped-off despite their hard work and >> trade surplus. I'm long convinced laissez-faire capitalism is a crock >> and private power as bad (and worse) than government power. >> >> On 19 Apr, 22:18, archytas <nwte...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Not giving benefits as handouts could be a very good idea - as is >> > restitution generally. I favour a countervailing institution of local- >> > international project work - countervailing to "capitalism's" reserve >> > army of labour. I'm so angry about what's going on now I'd drag >> > banksters and Troika bureaucrats to such scenes as kids in Greece >> > rummaging in bins for food and even to the Congo rape war, subject >> > them to a drumhead courtmartial, strap on GPS trackers and tell them >> > to sort things. >> > >> > On 19 Apr, 15:51, nominal9 <nomin...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Lonnie.... I have a bunch of derisive "stuff" to say about Fox and >> its cast >> > > of characters..... >> > > Do you really want to hear it?.....It gets to be pretty sophomoric, >> and I >> > > get tired of repeating myself in those terms...."namby -pamby" pales >> in >> > > comparison to the counter-right-wing material I could post, just from >> > > memory.... HAR...I'll let it slide, for now.... keep to the >> high-road... >> > >> > > On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:07:27 PM UTC-4, Lonnie Clay wrote: >> > >> > > > >> http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/02/12/woman-dies-from-drinking-10-... >> > >> > > > Should we ban coca cola because someone used it to drink herself to >> death? >> > > > I think not, and every namby-pamby liberal who talks about >> substance abuse >> > > > victims are just fighting evolution in action. >> > >> > > > >> http://envirothink.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/epa-says-saccharin-no-lon... >> > >> > > > There's a prime example of the nanny state with its head up its A$$ >> being >> > > > forced to retract a decree. >> > >> > > > Lonnie Courtney Clay >> > >> > > > On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 5:30:27 PM UTC-7, Lonnie Clay wrote: >> > >> > > >> "In some ways I'm not sure why any of us are still working. " >> > >> > > >> Well, the alternatives to working are taking charity from family >> or >> > > >> friends (I do), accepting government assistance (I do), accepting >> charity >> > > >> from benevolent organizations, living off accumulated wealth, >> borrowing >> > > >> money, or theft. The white collar crimes outweigh the petty thefts >> by a >> > > >> significant factor, often being measured in billions rather than >> millions. >> > > >> I put the increase down to cultural shifting towards dishonesty, >> caused >> > > >> primarily by childhood indoctrination from entertainment media >> that crime >> > > >> DOES pay, and pays quite well. Another factor is increased >> technological >> > > >> capabilities, especially computers, which allow criminals to >> commit >> > > >> esoteric crimes such as identity theft, derivatives fraud, and >> money >> > > >> laundering. Most of the increased law enforcement efforts have >> been >> > > >> ineffective in stemming the tide of crime. Harsher punishments >> unless well >> > > >> publicized are not effective as a deterrent against budding >> criminals. The >> > > >> basic problem is that people can now SEE that others reap rewards >> without >> > > >> hard work, either through crime or free handouts, due to >> sensationalist >> > > >> journalism and entertainment. >> > >> > > >> One of the more controversial things which I have proposed in the >> past is >> > > >> that handouts NOT be free, that they should require community >> service in >> > > >> exchange. Another is that all criminals should have to pay for >> their crimes >> > > >> not only with incarceration, but also with restitution to victims, >> and >> > > >> remedial counseling before their release. Parole oversight needs >> to be >> > > >> improved as well. >> > >> > > >> Drug trafficking has become a major worldwide industry due to >> government >> > > >> efforts to stop substance abuse. It didn't work with alcohol and >> it won't >> > > >> work for the rest, it just creates yet another class of criminal. >> Let the >> > > >> drug companies manufacture abused substances just like they do the >> > > >> thousands of prescription drugs which have the population >> hooked-on drugs. >> > > >> Require package inserts which detail the bad effects of the drugs >> and leave >> > > >> it up to the individual making the purchase to decide whether to >> be a user. >> > > >> Increase the penalties for crimes committed while under the >> influence of >> > > >> drugs, just as DWI is a higher charge than reckless driving. Make >> drugging >> > > >> someone without their knowledge a 20 year felony. >> > >> > > >> I don't want to talk any more about crime online, since I suspect >> that it >> > > >> would just be a tutorial for novices. >> > >> > > >> Lonnie Courtney Clay >> > >> > > >> On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:05:01 PM UTC-7, archytas wrote: >> > >> > > >>> I think you get all that right Lonnie. I've been trying to find >> out >> > > >>> what financial sector debt in the UK really is for over two >> years. In >> > > >>> numbers its anything from 230 - 510% of our GDP - a pretty >> > > >>> discouraging lack of accuracy - but I want to know its 'quality'. >> The >> > > >>> debt may be a good thing - a set of good performing loans - or it >> may >> > > >>> put the UK in a dire condition because its really Ponzi money >> relying >> > > >>> on asset valuations that are now mostly fictional. If the latter >> is >> > > >>> true the questions are about who will take the haircuts and >> whether >> > > >>> the UK taxpayer/bank account holder/bond holder etc. is on the >> hook. >> > > >>> Otherwise our government/household/corporate debt is comparable >> with >> > > >>> the US. >> > > >>> As a scientist I'd want to take a sample of the debt and try to >> sell >> > > >>> it in an open market. Its all currently valued by people with a >> > > >>> vested interest in making out everything is profitable - >> techniques we >> > > >>> know are bollox. >> > > >>> Frankly I believe all financial services (beyond utility banking) >> and >> > > >>> most economics are uselessly parasitic on genuine work and >> > > >>> production. I want to be able to ground this so we can move on >> to a >> > > >>> different way of living. I can barely describe what a putrid >> swamp >> > > >>> the mainstream is. Two Harvard arses, Reinhart & Rogoff have >> just >> > > >>> been exposed cheating as surely as any of my students through >> > > >>> spreadsheet manipulation. Their work had been widely used in >> support >> > > >>> of austerity programmes, but now we know they fiddled the figures >> and >> > > >>> the real case on their numbers was against austerity. I can't >> trust >> > > >>> allegedly peer reviewed papers, let alone stuff in which several >> > > >>> Enrons are considered as viable and even thriving through bent >> > > >>> auditing. >> > > >>> In some ways I'm not sure why any of us are still working. >> > >> > > >>> On Apr 13, 4:16 pm, Lonnie Clay <claylon...@comcast.net> wrote: >> > > >>> > Worldwide economies are foundering upon the rocks of modern >> > > >>> entertainments. >> > > >>> > I'll make the case for that. The rational response of a person >> to a >> > > >>> > stimulus is to do more of those things which bring pleasure >> rather >> > > >>> than >> > > >>> > punishment or boredom. With the rise of fiction in all of its >> forms, a >> > > >>> > person can gain pleasure from imagined world-scapes outside of >> the >> > > >>> "real" >> > > >>> > world's boundaries of experience. The pleasure of working life >> > > >>> achievement >> > > >>> > is limited to those who are both talented and trained to >> exercise >> > > >>> their >> > > >>> > talents. So which one do people choose when given the >> alternatives? >> > > >>> They >> > > >>> > increasingly choose entertainment, escaping from their >> fruitless >> > > >>> humdrum >> > > >>> > day to day existences into imaginary worlds of achievement. One >> reason >> > > >>> for >> > > >>> > that is the lack of opportunities in the modern economy >> resulting from >> > > >>> the >> > > >>> > failure of the educational systems to prepare people for >> productive >> > > >>> working >> > > >>> > careers. Another is the cultural shift towards >> self-gratification >> > > >>> rather >> > > >>> > than service to society. A third is the diminished rewards from >> > > >>> working >> > > >>> > resulting from the marginal reduction of income increase >> resulting >> > > >>> from >> > > >>> > government's taxation of wages economic activity. Why work >> harder to >> > > >>> gain >> > > >>> > more income when the government takes away more and more as >> your >> > > >>> income >> > > >>> > rises? Yet another is the diminished cost of life's necessities >> and >> > > >>> modest >> > > >>> > luxuries due to increased efficiency of production from product >> mass >> > > >>> > manufacturing. Why work harder when you have everything which >> you >> > > >>> need? >> > >> > > >>> > These factors result in diminished work force participation, >> the rise >> > > >>> of >> > > >>> > the welfare class, fewer employees working hard, market >> dislocations, >> > > >>> and >> > > >>> > diminished work ethics. >> > >> > > >>> > Lonnie Courtney Clay >> > >> > > >>> > On Friday, April 12, 2013 7:48:51 AM UTC-7, nominal9 wrote: >> > >> > > >>> > > Because it is so screwed up throughout the world that not >> fixing it >> > > >>> is >> > > >>> > > bound to lead to great social upheaval?????..... I think so. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to epistemology+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to epistemology@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/epistemology?hl=en. 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