----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Larry all you say is partically true. You can get a rag and tubeTaildragger for between 13-20K, and that is not a bad thing, or you can get an Ercoupe in simular condition for 15-30K. Or you cna get an LSA, one of the newer models for 25-45K. Not new but a few yrs old. Your choice. No one is saying it isn't. Just don't get ripped off. It can get very expensive getting any aircraft needing lots of work to get it right and legal. Do your homework. Also there are many of these Tube and fabric aircrafts with starers also. Just many of us do not mind propping. Been doing it for over 50 yrs and not no big deal. Choose the aircraft you like and enjoy. Keep the wind in your face and dirty side down. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes Your last sentence really sums the whole thing up. "Will pay what the aircraft is worth to me." If I am a Sport Pilot, consider my options for owning an airplane: 1. I could own an old fabric taildragger without an electrical system. I can get one for under $20k. Oh boy! I get to prop the plane when I want to fly! 2. I could buy a new SLSA plane. Oops - $80k. 3. I could build a kit - ELSA. But I'm not a builder, and I want to fly my plane before I die. 4. I could buy an Ercoupe. It has an electrical system, a starter, tricycle gear, pretty much the stuff I want. Is it worth more than a fabric taildragger? It is to me, because I want a plane with an electrical system and tricycle gear. For me to lose interest in an Ercoupe, it needs to be more than half the price of an SLSA, in a condition that satisfies me. I can put my Ercoupe in really good shape for $40k! And I've still paid half of an SLSA. For me, the old classic taildraggers aren't even in the equation. I think the rising cost of Ercoupes has come from this thinking. I think there will always be a bunch of guys not renewing their medicals, and new guys not wanting to get one, who have $30k to spend, who will have their sights set on an Ercoupe. Just my opinion, natürlich! Larry N 99340 On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:14 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before > following any advice in this forum.]---- > > > Very nice Ed. You certainly covered all areas very well. > I still love the Coupe but have a difficult time with SOME wanting > way more > than they are worth because some who are not familiar with the > problems or > cost of owning these older aircrafts are purchasing them. And then > having to > spend a great deal of money to get them as they should or even > worse, will > let them sit and never be completed. > > I am like many who have owned and repaired these older aircrafts. > Will pay > what the aircraft is worth to me. > > Lee > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Cflyin" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:02 AM > Subject: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes > > >> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before >> following any > advice in this forum.]---- >> >> >> Lee wrote: >>> Bob don't know where you are looking, and yes some are that >>> high, which I agree is too much, but some are in the 50's and >>> 60's. Rans S-6 and the S-7, Pulsar, and Zeneth are all selling >>> new in the 60's, and for a year or two old comes down into the >>> 40's. >> >> >> Here are "watch out for"s for those considering any kind of LSA: >> >> SLSA - The $70-$90k LSA aircraft being sold are SLSA - Special >> Light Sport >> Aircraft. These are factory built to the consensus standard and >> must be >> maintained by an appropriately rated LSA repairman (maintenance) >> or A&P or >> higher and the annual condition inspections must be signed off by >> those > same >> levels of mechanic. Pay close attention to the difference between >> base >> price versus fly-away price. And watch out because *some* sellers >> don't >> include shipping costs from Eastern Europe in the prices they are >> quoting >> you - till after you commit. >> >> By their SLSA status, they are much closer to certificated status >> than > they >> are to experimental. They MAY be used for commercial instruction >> and to a >> large extent, that's what they're being sold for. These also have > operating >> limits similar to certificated aircraft in that they may fly over >> densely >> populated areas under the same rules as certificated aircraft. The >> manufacturer MAY impose operating limits that are permanent such >> as VFR > only >> or VFR daytime only - check it out before you buy. >> >> Any aircraft more than a year old cannot be a SLSA - no SLSAs had >> been >> approved that far back. Buyer beware. >> >> dELSA - Some factories are selling a factory built LSA with only >> an ELSA >> airworthiness certificate. If it was built by the factory to >> their SLSA >> standard but issued a downgraded dELSA airworthiness certificate, >> it gets >> better operating limits than the lower certificates. These may be >> maintained by anyone but the annual condition inspection may be >> done by > the >> owner if he/she has a repairman (inspection) (16 hour course) >> certificate > or >> by a repairman (maintenance), A&P or higher. >> >> kELSA - The next level of LSA would be kELSA or kit-built >> Experimental > Light >> Sport Aircraft - if there were such a thing in existence. These >> don't yet >> exist because the consensus standard for kits has not been >> completed and >> approved by the FAA. These may be maintained by anyone but the >> annual >> condition inspection may be done by the owner if he/she has a >> repairman >> (inspection) (16 hour course) certificate or by a repairman >> (maintenance), >> A&P or higher. >> >> gELSA - This level is for the never-before-registered ultralight >> trainers >> and fat-UL aircraft. They must pass an inspection basically >> identical to >> the ExpAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft. These may be >> maintained > by >> anyone but the annual condition inspection may be done by the >> owner if >> he/she has a repairman (inspection) (16 hour course) certificate >> or by a >> repairman (maintenance), A&P or higher. >> >> Aircraft may only be converted to be gELSA until January 31, >> 2008. Even > new >> aircraft built between now and January 31, 2008 are eligible for this >> status. >> >> Up till a couple of weeks ago, these gELSA got the most restrictive >> operating limits essentially prohibiting them from ever flying over > densely >> populated areas even to land at an airport. But, a few weeks ago, >> the FAA >> staff had a meeting. Since then, we've seen one newly inspected >> aircraft >> get operating limits similar to the ExpAB limits with the >> inspector saying >> these are according to the new guidelines he had received. By >> these, the >> aircraft may fly over densely populated areas at the direction of air >> traffic control or while landing or taking off as long as they >> maintain >> sufficient altitude to effect a safe emergency landing in the >> event of a >> power unit failure. We're waiting for publication of the new >> change to > FAA >> order 8130.2F. Up till now, we've only seen CHG 1. This would be >> a CHG > 2. >> >> Those one or two year old aircraft being advertised as LSA are often >> certified as either ExpAB or dELSA or even gELSA. It is ESSENTIAL >> to know >> what the operating limits are on the aircraft before you put down >> you tens >> of thousands of dollars! >> >> Here's a reference showing the privileges of each kind of LSA >> aircraft: >> http://edburkhead.com/Challenger/LSA_privilege_chart.htm >> >> It's a mess. Buying a Coupe is simpler, if you can find a clean >> one (or >> like projects). >> >> However, the new crop of aircraft built to be within the LSA >> standards to > be >> flown by Sport Pilots have better performance than our Coupes. >> They're > much >> like what Fred would be designing if he were here today. >> >> Fred told me in an interview that he never expected Coupes to be >> in use in >> 10 years. The rate of progress was so fast, when he designed >> them, that > he >> thought new, clearly superior designs would have taken over the >> market. >> That estimate was off by 55 years, but it's finally happening. >> >> We can still love our Coupes for their relatively low cost and >> intrinsic >> value, their historicity and for the family of Coupers that comes >> with > them. >> >> Ed Burkhead >> http://edburkhead.com >> ed -at- edburkhead???.com (change -at- to @ and remove "???") >> >> >> > ====================================================================== > ====== > == >> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm >> Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ >> >> >> > > ====================================================================== > ======== > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > ============================================================================== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/
