----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Amazing how all is in the eye of the beholder ? Saw the 701, didn't particular like it. Doesn't mean it is not a good aircraft, but not for me. To much like an ultralite. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jerry Eichenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Larry Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- > > > I have one word - Zenith CH701. Ugly, (not to me ) .....yes, > fun absolutely! You have no idea... > Inexpensive -yup about 32 K for a 400-500 hr build - complete > > I love my Ercoupe and have my eyes on the CH701 as well. > It is very affordable if you build in stages. > > Scott > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Eichenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Larry Snyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:31 PM > Subject: RE: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > Larry - > > > > What you say makes good sense, but don't be too harsh on the old tailwheel > > airplanes. > > > > I own a Champ, and love it. I'm looking for a Coupe just because I fly > from > > a paved runway, and the Champ is too "wind limited" when flown off of > > pavement. > > > > I'm got over 1500 hours of tailwheel time, so I'm no rookie in that > > department, either. > > > > Every kind of airplane has its niche, and the old classic tailwheel is > > wonderful on a nice summer evening, after the wind has died down. If you > > can fly from a grass field, it's even better. > > > > Propping is no big deal at all. > > > > Jerry E. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Snyder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:12 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > Your last sentence really sums the whole thing up. > > > > "Will pay what the aircraft is worth to me." > > > > If I am a Sport Pilot, consider my options for owning an airplane: > > > > 1. I could own an old fabric taildragger without an electrical > > system. I can get one for under $20k. Oh boy! I get to prop the plane > > when I want to fly! > > > > 2. I could buy a new SLSA plane. Oops - $80k. > > > > 3. I could build a kit - ELSA. But I'm not a builder, and I want to > > fly my plane before I die. > > > > 4. I could buy an Ercoupe. It has an electrical system, a starter, > > tricycle gear, pretty much the stuff I want. Is it worth more than a > > fabric taildragger? It is to me, because I want a plane with an > > electrical system and tricycle gear. For me to lose interest in an > > Ercoupe, it needs to be more than half the price of an SLSA, in a > > condition that satisfies me. I can put my Ercoupe in really good > > shape for $40k! And I've still paid half of an SLSA. For me, the old > > classic taildraggers aren't even in the equation. > > > > I think the rising cost of Ercoupes has come from this thinking. I > > think there will always be a bunch of guys not renewing their > > medicals, and new guys not wanting to get one, who have $30k to > > spend, who will have their sights set on an Ercoupe. > > > > Just my opinion, natürlich! > > > > Larry > > N 99340 > > > > On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:14 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before > > > following any advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > > > > Very nice Ed. You certainly covered all areas very well. > > > I still love the Coupe but have a difficult time with SOME wanting > > > way more > > > than they are worth because some who are not familiar with the > > > problems or > > > cost of owning these older aircrafts are purchasing them. And then > > > having to > > > spend a great deal of money to get them as they should or even > > > worse, will > > > let them sit and never be completed. > > > > > > I am like many who have owned and repaired these older aircrafts. > > > Will pay > > > what the aircraft is worth to me. > > > > > > Lee > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Cflyin" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:02 AM > > > Subject: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes > > > > > > > > >> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before > > >> following any > > > advice in this forum.]---- > > >> > > >> > > >> Lee wrote: > > >>> Bob don't know where you are looking, and yes some are that > > >>> high, which I agree is too much, but some are in the 50's and > > >>> 60's. Rans S-6 and the S-7, Pulsar, and Zeneth are all selling > > >>> new in the 60's, and for a year or two old comes down into the > > >>> 40's. > > >> > > >> > > >> Here are "watch out for"s for those considering any kind of LSA: > > >> > > >> SLSA - The $70-$90k LSA aircraft being sold are SLSA - Special > > >> Light Sport > > >> Aircraft. These are factory built to the consensus standard and > > >> must be > > >> maintained by an appropriately rated LSA repairman (maintenance) > > >> or A&P or > > >> higher and the annual condition inspections must be signed off by > > >> those > > > same > > >> levels of mechanic. Pay close attention to the difference between > > >> base > > >> price versus fly-away price. And watch out because *some* sellers > > >> don't > > >> include shipping costs from Eastern Europe in the prices they are > > >> quoting > > >> you - till after you commit. > > >> > > >> By their SLSA status, they are much closer to certificated status > > >> than > > > they > > >> are to experimental. They MAY be used for commercial instruction > > >> and to a > > >> large extent, that's what they're being sold for. These also have > > > operating > > >> limits similar to certificated aircraft in that they may fly over > > >> densely > > >> populated areas under the same rules as certificated aircraft. The > > >> manufacturer MAY impose operating limits that are permanent such > > >> as VFR > > > only > > >> or VFR daytime only - check it out before you buy. > > >> > > >> Any aircraft more than a year old cannot be a SLSA - no SLSAs had > > >> been > > >> approved that far back. Buyer beware. > > >> > > >> dELSA - Some factories are selling a factory built LSA with only > > >> an ELSA > > >> airworthiness certificate. If it was built by the factory to > > >> their SLSA > > >> standard but issued a downgraded dELSA airworthiness certificate, > > >> it gets > > >> better operating limits than the lower certificates. These may be > > >> maintained by anyone but the annual condition inspection may be > > >> done by > > > the > > >> owner if he/she has a repairman (inspection) (16 hour course) > > >> certificate > > > or > > >> by a repairman (maintenance), A&P or higher. > > >> > > >> kELSA - The next level of LSA would be kELSA or kit-built > > >> Experimental > > > Light > > >> Sport Aircraft - if there were such a thing in existence. These > > >> don't yet > > >> exist because the consensus standard for kits has not been > > >> completed and > > >> approved by the FAA. These may be maintained by anyone but the > > >> annual > > >> condition inspection may be done by the owner if he/she has a > > >> repairman > > >> (inspection) (16 hour course) certificate or by a repairman > > >> (maintenance), > > >> A&P or higher. > > >> > > >> gELSA - This level is for the never-before-registered ultralight > > >> trainers > > >> and fat-UL aircraft. They must pass an inspection basically > > >> identical to > > >> the ExpAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft. These may be > > >> maintained > > > by > > >> anyone but the annual condition inspection may be done by the > > >> owner if > > >> he/she has a repairman (inspection) (16 hour course) certificate > > >> or by a > > >> repairman (maintenance), A&P or higher. > > >> > > >> Aircraft may only be converted to be gELSA until January 31, > > >> 2008. Even > > > new > > >> aircraft built between now and January 31, 2008 are eligible for this > > >> status. > > >> > > >> Up till a couple of weeks ago, these gELSA got the most restrictive > > >> operating limits essentially prohibiting them from ever flying over > > > densely > > >> populated areas even to land at an airport. But, a few weeks ago, > > >> the FAA > > >> staff had a meeting. Since then, we've seen one newly inspected > > >> aircraft > > >> get operating limits similar to the ExpAB limits with the > > >> inspector saying > > >> these are according to the new guidelines he had received. By > > >> these, the > > >> aircraft may fly over densely populated areas at the direction of air > > >> traffic control or while landing or taking off as long as they > > >> maintain > > >> sufficient altitude to effect a safe emergency landing in the > > >> event of a > > >> power unit failure. We're waiting for publication of the new > > >> change to > > > FAA > > >> order 8130.2F. Up till now, we've only seen CHG 1. This would be > > >> a CHG > > > 2. > > >> > > >> Those one or two year old aircraft being advertised as LSA are often > > >> certified as either ExpAB or dELSA or even gELSA. It is ESSENTIAL > > >> to know > > >> what the operating limits are on the aircraft before you put down > > >> you tens > > >> of thousands of dollars! > > >> > > >> Here's a reference showing the privileges of each kind of LSA > > >> aircraft: > > >> http://edburkhead.com/Challenger/LSA_privilege_chart.htm > > >> > > >> It's a mess. Buying a Coupe is simpler, if you can find a clean > > >> one (or > > >> like projects). > > >> > > >> However, the new crop of aircraft built to be within the LSA > > >> standards to > > > be > > >> flown by Sport Pilots have better performance than our Coupes. > > >> They're > > > much > > >> like what Fred would be designing if he were here today. > > >> > > >> Fred told me in an interview that he never expected Coupes to be > > >> in use in > > >> 10 years. The rate of progress was so fast, when he designed > > >> them, that > > > he > > >> thought new, clearly superior designs would have taken over the > > >> market. > > >> That estimate was off by 55 years, but it's finally happening. > > >> > > >> We can still love our Coupes for their relatively low cost and > > >> intrinsic > > >> value, their historicity and for the family of Coupers that comes > > >> with > > > them. > > >> > > >> Ed Burkhead > > >> http://edburkhead.com > > >> ed -at- edburkhead???.com (change -at- to @ and remove "???") > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ====================================================================== > > > ====== > > > == > > >> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > >> Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ====================================================================== > > > ======== > > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > > > > ============================================================================ > > == > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================================ > == > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1331 (20051220) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > ============================================================================ == > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > ============================================================================== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/
