On Friday, December 28, 2012, David Bruant wrote:
> Le 28/12/2012 11:20, Brendan Eich a écrit :
>
>> David Bruant wrote:
>>
>>> What about a specific section of the spec called "de facto standards"?
>>> It would indicate that it's part of the standard, but is a scar from
>>> history rather than a legit feature.
>>> An intro would explain what this is all about.
>>> It would be an interesting middleground between normal spec features
>>> (which people take for the Holy Graal) and appendices (which people will
>>> skip).
>>> __{define|lookup}{G|S}etter__ would fit well in this section.
>>>
>> Those never made it into IE. Why include them? There's a bright line
>> drawn by interop.
>>
> I've seen Node.js code with it. Closed source so far. I don't think it'll
> be hard to find open source.
> ... googling ...
> * http://blog.james-carr.org/**2010/07/19/defining-getters-**
> and-setters-in-nodejs/<http://blog.james-carr.org/2010/07/19/defining-getters-and-setters-in-nodejs/>
> "you can define getters and setters using the ECMAScript5 syntax." and
> then shows an example with __define{G|S}etter__ *ahem*
>
> *
> http://nodemanual.org/0.6.9/**nodejs_dev_guide/ECMA5_in_**nodejs.html<http://nodemanual.org/0.6.9/nodejs_dev_guide/ECMA5_in_nodejs.html>
> => Page titled "Using ECMA5 in Node.js"
> __define{G|S}etter__ Documented, but described as "This functions is a
> Mozilla extension and is not in ECMAScript 5.".
>
> *
> http://fr.slideshare.net/the_**undefined/nodejs-a-quick-tour<http://fr.slideshare.net/the_undefined/nodejs-a-quick-tour>
> => Slide 15 titled "ECMAScript 5" but shows an example with
> __defineGetter__
>
> Oh boy! And these are just 3 of the 4 first results I see when searching
> "nodejs __definegetter__"
> Not only people do use it, but they recommand it and think it's part of
> ES5!
>
>
> Searching in node_modules of a recent project, I see a couple of modules
> using __defineGetter__ (I count own usages, not usage in their submodules):
> express, connect, formidable, nconf, pg, winston... Half of the modules I
> use freaking use it!
>
> Special note for chai in which I have seen the "defineGetter" string, but
> because they removed it from their source :-) https://github.com/chaijs/**
> chai/blob/master/History.md#**012--2011-12-18<https://github.com/chaijs/chai/blob/master/History.md#012--2011-12-18>
>
> Apparently, __define{G|S}etter__ really is a thing in Node.js. I really
> didn't have to dig deep...
In the past I've engaged members of the node community about this and
general response is: "______ didn't know about the ES5 APIs".
...which is certainly not a reason to include them in any part of the
specification, annex or not
Rick
>
> Then implementations can still choose not to implement them when they can
>>>> afford it, e.g. when JS is introduced into a new space where no such legacy
>>>> exists.
>>>>
>>> A new web browser will need these legacy features, but I agree with
>>> non-browser implementation.
>>>
>>>
>> And as we discussed in accepting __proto__ as normative not-optional:
>>
>> * Code gets ported, it is unlikely a new embedding will avoid __proto__
>> if it becomes popular (Node.js is an example of how __proto__ spread).
>>
> Add __define{G|S}etter__ to the list I guess -_-#
>
> David
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