It sounds like you are advocating for a larger standard library in JS. I think many on this thread are focusing on whether more syntax features should be added.
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Alex Russell <slightly...@google.com> wrote: > I do not share Mark's view. Contra his sentiment, I was using the "small" > version of JS for many years and noted that most non-trivial uses required > finding or building a library. That choice of library (which exist to fill > in platform and language deficiencies) leads to a a split in common use > that's just as pernicious as "choosing a subset". > > Writing JS in the large continues to need more help. > > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Andrea Giammarchi < > andrea.giammar...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I like Mark's post too, and if I might ... >> >> > Features like classes and `let` are very often criticised and often >> languages that did not add these features and are considered 'well >> designed' are given in comparison (Python's lack of block scoping for >> instance). >> >> thing is, ES6 brought in many things that took years to explain in the >> "JS way" and when finally developers started knowing and appreciating >> `prototypal` inheritance and started understanding the `var` behavior, to >> name just few, "we" started promoting ES6 as the universal problem solver >> for every dev so that `let` is the new `var` (most developers still don't >> even know what does it mean) and `const` is the better `let` and `class` >> finally is in the language, something that desugar anyway to prototypal >> inheritance, something developers still need to understand. >> >> So I agree we should really stop going fancy with syntax, probably think >> about sweet.js like approches, and fix all the things that will need to be >> fixed in ES6, improving and finalizing classes bringing in composition like >> it has always been possible before through prototypal inheritance. I really >> do hope traits will be highly prioritized and binary/typed data/shapes too >> 'cause I don't think JS needs many more changes as it is today. >> >> Just my lil'rant and keep up the good work. >> >> Best Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Benjamin Gruenbaum <benjami...@gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> First of all, brilliant post Mark. >>> >>> > As a community, we need more of a shared sense of panic about the size >>> that ES6 has already grown to. Ideally, that panic should increase, not >>> decrease, with further growth from here as our size approaches the point of >>> no return. >>> >>> As a community, we do - if you look at HackerNews or Reddit or >>> StackOverflow people are constantly hating on JS getting larger. Features >>> like classes and `let` are very often criticised and often languages that >>> did not add these features and are considered 'well designed' are given in >>> comparison (Python's lack of block scoping for instance). >>> >>> This is a mailing list comprised of people who typically have a much >>> better understanding of the language and its corners than most (even >>> professional) developers have (and dare I say, are interested in or care >>> about having). With ES6 the language already got a *lot* bigger and I'd >>> argue that it's now harder to learn the whole. The tradeoffs were >>> worthwhile but it's definitely an issue. >>> >>> It's easy to forget here what traps the average user might fall into, >>> and it's easy to forget what they care about and what confuses them. >>> >>> Fwiw, there are examples of big languages that are well liked, the >>> "canonical" example of a big but very well liked (and well designed imho) >>> language is C#. It has a lot of cruft now (delegates and events, array >>> covariance etc) but it is still a very well liked language in general. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> es-discuss mailing list >>> es-discuss@mozilla.org >>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> es-discuss mailing list >> es-discuss@mozilla.org >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > es-discuss mailing list > es-discuss@mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > > -- R. Mark Volkmann Object Computing, Inc.
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