Honestly, this entire thread reads as partially misinformed, borderline trollbait. These kinds of questions and thoughts should really be asked directly (and a bit more respectfully) to TC39 representatives and/or put in blog posts wherever. es-discuss is primarily about language design, and although the subject implies it's about the language's design in the abstract, I'm not convinced the content and responses really are.
1. Claims of a language "civil war" don't belong on this list, and are objectively false. Yes, there's disagreement, but even TC39 members aren't exactly in agreement here - consider the difference between Lodash/Ecmarkdown (Domenic Denicola) and Ecmarkup (Brian Terlson). Please take that into account. 2. Yes, there are multiple idiomatic uses of JavaScript, but it's large enough you can carve out a subset and be done with it. You don't like classes? Don't use them. You don't like arrow functions? Don't use them. You don't like `array.map`? Don't use it. Just because they exist doesn't obligate you to use them, and they don't hurt you in any way if you don't. Also, complaints of a person's or group's choice of idiom do *not* belong on this list whatsoever. Leave that crap to a private message, a blog post (if it's a group), or whatever. 3. JavaScript "classes" are not technically class-based OOP, and TC39 members have acknowledged this in blog posts. It's 99% sugar over the existing prototype-based model, just with easier native subclassing. You could in theory replicate this in the rest of the language with a combination of `Object.defineProperty`, `Object.setPrototypeOf`, `new.target`, and existing ES5. ----- Isiah Meadows m...@isiahmeadows.com Looking for web consulting? Or a new website? Send me an email and we can get started. www.isiahmeadows.com On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 4:32 PM, doodad-js Admin <dooda...@gmail.com> wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Claude Petit [mailto:p...@webmail.us] > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2017 4:24 PM > To: 'kai zhu' <kaizhu...@gmail.com>; 'es-discuss' <es-discuss@mozilla.org> > Subject: RE: javascript vision thing > > For mostly real OOP under JS, please see my project (doodad-js). But I can't > warranty its future without a custom language because nobody on TC39 want to > works along-side with me on that project, and they are making their own > supposed "classes" which are not. > > -----Original Message----- > From: kai zhu [mailto:kaizhu...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2017 11:43 PM > To: es-discuss <es-discuss@mozilla.org> > Subject: javascript vision thing > > any thoughts? i'll break the ice with a quora question i recently answered > > quora question: >> Why is JavaScript so hated? > > answer posted: >>the primary reason is because traditional oop skills gained from >>c#/c++/java/python/etc translate poorly to javascript. >> >>in javascript, class-instantiated objects are inferior to plain-objects, >>because plain-objects come with JSON.stringify/JSON.parse baked-in, while >>classes require needless extra serialization/deserialization routines which >>can easily double your codebase or more (as real-world javascript-code is >>heavily i/o based). i would say many people burn-out from >>frontend-programming because they can’t cope with debugging all the i/o >>edge-cases serializing/deserializing their custom classes. >> >>javascript and frontend-programming is essentially about efficiently managing >>the program-state like a baton, constantly passing it back-and-forth between >>the browser’s ui and various backend-servers / persistent-storage. plain >>json-objects utilizing idiot-proof JSON.stringify/JSON.parse, are naturally >>better at this baton-passing business than writing classes with custom >>serializers. > > > > there's currently a civil war going on in frontend-development, between those > who don't want to deal with writing extra class-based > serializers/deserializers and those who do. these 2 different design > patterns have incompatible styleguides that often break web-projects when > people try to mix-and-match both together. i don't have a simple solution to > this issue, but tc39 should be made aware of it as they try to formulate a > javascript vision that doesn't alienate frontend-development. > > -kai > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > _______________________________________________ > es-discuss mailing list > es-discuss@mozilla.org > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss _______________________________________________ es-discuss mailing list es-discuss@mozilla.org https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss
