this is not a troll-account, and I’m a live-person with realistic (albeit uncomfortable) views on limitations of javascript product-development in industry.
es6 seems to adopt java’s philosophy that with careful-planning, you can create semi-permanent, well-abstracted code during the design-phase that will last throughout the product-development cycle. my experience with numerous web-projects, both successful and failed, indicates this approach as flawed. and i believe most people in industry who have been burned by failed web-projects in the past (due to over-encumbered/engineered initial-designs that couldn’t cope with realities of product integration/qa) are wary of hiring unproven java-turned-js devs who still hold these brittle design-philosophies. there's no such thing as “permanent” javascript-code in product-development. everything eventually gets rewritten, when the inevitable business-critical ux feature-request comes in that you must accommodate, even though it breaks your current integration-workflow. when this common scenario plays out in industry: a) the [inexperienced] unqualified js-dev likely dithers, unwilling/unable to unwind the complicated initial-design they architected to accommodate the feature-request, while b) the [experienced] qualified js-dev would have anticipated this, and simply rewrites their initial expendable-code with new expendable-code to accommodate the feature-request (with expectation it will be rewritten again-and-again in the future). its difficult for employers to discern whether js-devs will exhibit trait a) or trait b) through technical-interview alone. and es6 skews this with design-patterns biased towards trait a), further confusing employers seeking qualified js-devs. kai zhu kaizhu...@gmail.com > On 23 Sep 2018, at 1:43 AM, Zlatko Đurić <zladu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I don't know why I can't resist this troll. I've just spent half an hour > writing an elaborate answer on how the whole premise is wrong, knowing that > this is a known troll account. Well, I've deleted it all and will not fall > for his trolling again. > > (Btw I thought this list is moderated, how come his same-all troll ramblings > always pass the mods?) > > Zlatko > > On Sat 22. Sep 2018 at 18:26, Michael J. Ryan <track...@gmail.com > <mailto:track...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Considering how many js devs fail to answer "what values evaluate to false in > JavaScript". It isn't the new features that are the problem. > > There's a combination of problems. People believing they're better > developers than they are. People who look down on js and front end > development. And those ahead to learn new things. > > JS isn't really evolving any more than Java, C#, go, python and others as a > whole in the past 20 years. And having to fight uphill to use newer features > is a pain. I'm not on the younger side of this (I'm 42)... But I've managed > to keep up. > > On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 17:14 kai zhu <kaizhu...@gmail.com > <mailto:kaizhu...@gmail.com>> wrote: > a problem i've observed in industry is that many es6 language-features have > the unintended-consequence of incentivising incompetent javascript-developers > at the expense of competent-ones. its generally difficult for many employers > (even those knowledgeable in general-purpose programming), to discern between: > > a) a competent javascript employee/contractor who can get things done and > ship products (albeit with legitimate delays), and > b) an incompetent-one who can easily hide themselves in non-productive es6 > busywork, and continually pushback product-integration (again with > “legitimate” delays, until its too late). > > its gotten bad enough that many industry-employers no longer trust > general-purpose-programming technical-interviews when recruiting js-devs, and > rely almost exclusively on either a) an applicant's reputation / > word-of-mouth for getting things done, or b) their ability to complete a > time-consuming tech-challenge, where they must demonstrate ability to ship a > mini-product. both methods are not scalable to meet the demand in industry > for qualified js-devs in product-development. > > the only solution i can think of to this industry-problem is to hold-back on > introducing new disruptive/unproven javascript design-patterns, and figuring > out how to educate the industry with tightened javascript style-guides and > existing design-patterns proven to work (more is less); generally, ways to > enhance the current, woefully inadequate “bullsh*t detector” of employers so > they can better identify and mentor/train/weed-out unqualified js-devs. > > kai zhu > kaizhu...@gmail.com <mailto:kaizhu...@gmail.com> > > _______________________________________________ > es-discuss mailing list > es-discuss@mozilla.org <mailto:es-discuss@mozilla.org> > https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss > <https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/es-discuss> > > -- > Job board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ <http://jobs.nodejs.org/> > New group rules: > https://gist.github.com/othiym23/9886289#file-moderation-policy-md > <https://gist.github.com/othiym23/9886289#file-moderation-policy-md> > Old group rules: > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > <https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "nodejs" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/nodejs/p81p-_FqS-s/unsubscribe > <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/nodejs/p81p-_FqS-s/unsubscribe>. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:nodejs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to nod...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:nod...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nodejs/CA%2BpgmMoRmv-P-8a%2B6JCj8szBcJ_32fPULL3DqrZp%2B3SgMZLTDw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nodejs/CA%2BpgmMoRmv-P-8a%2B6JCj8szBcJ_32fPULL3DqrZp%2B3SgMZLTDw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > -- > Zlatko
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