On Monday 02 June 2003 04:51 pm, Ben Barrett wrote:
: While your post may be helpful to some, I have to disagree here, at
: least to some extent. Linux Rocks, as they say, and to compare RedHat
: to Microshaft is a Bad Idea
OK why is it a bad idea ?
I think. To be specific, Linux Rocks, and
: Red Hat has brought linux to more people than any other distro (*), so
: why bad-mouth it?
Well, thats a fair enough question. Red Hat has been the choice of many new to
linux users, but is that necessarily a good thing? I don't think it is
because I think its probably the worst linux distro ever, and has likely
turned many people off of linux (probably more than any other distro(*). I'd
much rather see people try Mandrake or SuSE as it just works better and on
more computers than RedHat. Isn't that a good enough reason to "bad-mouth" it
?
Also, I've heard people say that because of microsoft more people use personal
computers (as if without microsoft, people wouldn't be able to use computer,
and therefore microsoft is a really good thing).
Why suggest another distro, just because you can't
: answer a redhat-specific question?
Well, thats an assumption that I would be happier that you hadn't drawn. My
inability to answer a redhat specific question has nothing to do with my
recommendation for its use. My recommendation is based on years of hearing
people whine about it, and from seeing a lot of success with other distro's
(Mandrake and SuSE to be specific).
Sure, I know there are plenty of
: folks who are hungry to try something new -- in other words, they're
: already hooked. Brian here came to us with an issue that was keeping
: him from using Linux, y'know, in a useful way... and if he happened to
: be using the distro you know well, then I know you could help directly.
sure I could... however, I haven't noticed any of the redhat experts trying
to help him with redhat specific issues... why haven't they ?
: But it strikes me as the scenario where they need one little fix, not to
: re-install their dual-boot setup -- and imagine the potential dismay of
: a newcomer (tho I know you've been around a bit, Brian) who is told to
: reinstall linux wholesale, instead of fixing the one little problem.
Well... I would say I suggest another distro, not told. its not like I'm his
daddy telling him to do his chores, its more like, gee.. if you used this
product, you may have better success.
wiping out a non functional system and installing fresh isn't really as big
of a deal as you make it sound. although, if spending 10 minutes will fix all
his redhat problems, then maybe that would be a better way... so... if you
have a quick solution to his problems, why don't we just do that ?
I should also say, that if the user really likes redhat (ie, they've tried
several, and find redhat the best for their needs...) then they should
stick with it.
: Disclaimer: I'm totally for Linux, I also think it Rocks! However,
: when someone comes to me with a problem, I start by asking if they have
: the latest versions of what they're using (and if they've backed up) no
: matter what it is that they're using. "Getting the latest version" is
: not required, but generally a good thing, and if there is any reason not
: to do so, then the changelogs since the version in use should be
: examined for the issue... and so forth. Assuming that the machine in
: question is hoping to be a useful tool for the user, reinstalling the OS
: is a productivity-killer. Further, I love that we gnurds throw our
: lives at these machines, but hope to help keep the general populace from
: needing to also become tools of the tools = ) I hope my points here
: can be well-taken, and to finish, I'd like to remind our readership that
: there are indeed many many many redhat users out there, and yes many use
: it for the simple (and some would say evil) purpose of binary
: compatibility -- "hardcore" geeks would want to compile everything, a la
: Gentoo or LFS, however a lot of users do not have that requirement.
: Regardless, RedHat is still a Great Linux in my book, capable of a lot,
: and likely to be on the cutting edge for support of any given hardware
: you might be struggling to use... Cheers to that!
: Phew, people get so edgy around standardization, especially when it
: comes from afar = )
compiling vs binary distribution (ie rpm, debs, ...) is a completely different
issue... Infact you can compile from source on redhat, and you can use rpms
with other systems (I do actually use rpm with Slackware when it seems
appropriate...)
:
: (*) - I have no reference off-hand. Anyone? I'd be happy to find
: some figures if anyone's interested....
:
: On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 02:01:02 -0700
:
: Linux Rocks ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: | Brian,
: | Well... if your priority is mainstream, then maybe you need
: | Windows. As far
: | as I can tell, redhat is the microsoft of the linux community. Ive
: | spent a lot of time trying various linux's, and have found Mandrake
: | to be far superior to RedHat, its actually based on redhat, but it
: | usually works much better. If you like the way redhat does things,
: | maybe mandrake is a good thing for you to try. Alternatively SuSE is
: | also very easy to install and has a decent userbase. Personally I
: | prefer Slackware, but its not really a newbie type system (although it
: | gets easier every new version...)
: |
: | Jamie
: |
: | On Monday 02 June 2003 03:27 pm, BAGGAB wrote:
: | : Jamie
: | :
: | : Thanks for the vote of confidence (it was kind of boneheaded of me
: |
: | for: waiting so long.)
: |
: | : I'm using RH because it is the mainstream distro. I have talked to
: |
: | many: people outside of technical community. I would say that 75%
: | have never: even heard of Linux. So when Business Week highlighted
: | Linux on their: front cover I was excited. In that article it flatly
: | stated "Linux: Startups: Other then Red Hat, there's not much room for
: | these small fry": and "Linux Purists: Linux developers who don't like
: | the idea of working: with
: |
: | : capitalists had better get used to it."
: | :
: | : Now you and I may feel differently, but that's the perception (when
: |
: | there: is one.) I just want the people I help to bring OSS mainstream
: | to know the: front runner. These many other distro's are too
: | perplexing (the many: choices that is) to the novice user, who may
: | never be a technician, but may: be willing to use Open Office if
: |
: | someone "holds their hand.":
: | : Brian
: | :
: | : P.S. I am getting tired of the struggle. I have floated my idea for
: |
: | an: educational website focusing on engineering and the environment to
: | a local: group, for the last time. If they are not interested I will
: | go it alone: and I won't much care about who knows OSS then and I will
: | use what comes: easiest.
:
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