EV Digest 2695
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) TdS Report #9: EV World Interviews Mike Bianchi about the Tour de Sol
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Advice: placing aux batt. in rear
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Powerzinc scooter hits 130 mile range
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Electric Bicycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Wayland battery weight 57.2 KWh Capacity
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Electric Bicycle
by Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) FW: RE: Buck converters (was Re: AC controllers)
by "Michael Hills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone
under
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Advice: placing aux batt. in rear
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Bicycle
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: FW: RE: Buck converters (was Re: AC controllers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EV Challenge Raleigh NC April 11th/12th
by "Mitchell Oates" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Marines on NPR
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Marines on NPR
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by Gail Lucas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Chrysler Almighty!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) OT Do you want fries with your biodiesel?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by Matthew Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Marines on NPR
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Chrysler Almighty!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #9: EV World Interviews Mike Bianchi about the Tour de Sol
Bill Moore, editor of the EV World web magazine, http://www.EVWorld.com, spoke
with me for an audio-interview currently featured there. He called it "Mike
Bianchi's Rite of Spring". Click on the handsome face.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2003 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2003
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2003 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first CivicWithACord had a problem with high
loads-- the (motorcycle) aux. battery and DCDC had a
tough time keeping up with it when lights, wipers,
heater, defroster, etc. were all on. So their
solution was to install a gel cel 33Ah batt. That
seems to have solved their problem, _and_ allowed the
aux batt. to stay in close proximity to the DCDC and
fuse boxes (under the hood). This is a $65 battery.
I'm thinking a bit outside the box. I've got
plenty of nooks and crannies _in the trunk_ to stash
the group 45 (standard size) aux. battery. It seems
to me that with this approach, I'd save $$$, because I
generally get 5-6 years out of the group 45s, and the
gel cels are only forecasted to last 3 years. Plus,
the group 45s are cheaper to begin with.
Downside: I'd need to run about 17' of 10 ga. wire
the length of the car, and have E= IR losses. Not
having a resistance chart in front of me, will this
length be substantial? And are there other issues I'm
not considering?
Appreciatively,
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://platinum.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Powerzinc Electric, Inc.
Powerzinc Electric, Inc. is a California based company dedicated to the
research, development and manufacturing of new, advanced
environmental-friendly zinc-air fuel cell and zinc-air battery. Our key
product - DQFC series zinc-air fuel cell is a high performance fuel cell
that is specifically designed for electric vehicle applications. It is
capable of powering an electric scooter for over 130 miles with a short,
mechanical refuel time of less than 5 minutes. Our proprietary zinc-air fuel
cell technology is also suitable for applications like consumer electronics,
back-up power sources, telecommunications, medical devices, pleasure boats,
etc.
Business type: manufacturer and supplier of advanced zinc-air fuel cell and
zinc-air battery
Product types: zinc-air fuel cell and zinc-air battery.
Service types: Licensing and franchising zinc-air fuel cell manufacturing
technologies and facilities.
Address: 18623 E. Gale Avenue, City of Industry, California USA 91748
Telephone: (626) 810-3068
FAX: (626) 810-7400
Web Site: http://www.powerzinc.com
E-mail: Send Email to Powerzinc Electric, Inc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.powerzinc.com/en/index-2-c2-1.htm
Electric Bicycle
Range per refuel: up to 250 KM
Average 7 - 10 days per refuel
< 3 Min per refuel
No need to wait for 8 hours or to drag 15Kg upstairs
Life-time warranty
Never need to replace!
Fuel Cell Specification:
Norminal Voltage: 24V
Energy: 1800Wh / 76Ah (C5)
Weight: 10.7 Kg
Size: 30 x 18 x 15 cm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cooperating with famous University in China, Powerzinc has successfully
developed zinc-air fuel cell powered, all-Electric passenger car.
Range per refuel:up to 400km
Current max speed: 70km/h (Will be upgraded to >120km/h)
Battery Capacity: 57.2KWh
Battery Weight: 280kg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
but it looks like it isnt rechargable? you end up buying a bunch of
disposable batteries (err, fuel cells), and replacing them every few days?
if it is rechargable in 3 minutes, thats great, but it sounds like a
step backwards if you end up creating more trash. does anyone know more
about this "3 minute mechanical refuel?"
thats been my major concern with fuel cells... where do you get the
hydrogen? if it ends up just being a more efficient battery, thats cool,
or a more efficient (cleaner) means of converting gasoline to
electricity, thats cool too. neither one sounds as revolutionary as the
hype surrounding it.
if it could allow you to use gasoline in a clean, quiet, and efficient
manner for a small powered vehicle, that would rock. if i could get
500-100mpg on a fuel cell bike with no noise or exhaust, id be sold!
--travis
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
http://www.powerzinc.com/en/index-2-c2-1.htm
Electric Bicycle
Range per refuel: up to 250 KM
Average 7 - 10 days per refuel
< 3 Min per refuel
No need to wait for 8 hours or to drag 15Kg upstairs
Life-time warranty
Never need to replace!
Fuel Cell Specification:
Norminal Voltage: 24V
Energy: 1800Wh / 76Ah (C5)
Weight: 10.7 Kg
Size: 30 x 18 x 15 cm
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very sad. Just the other day I saw a little old lady from Pasadena type
driving a Sparrow up Valencia street in San Francisco. Yes her head was
just clearing the steering wheel. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
> Today, March 31, a message on their website says that the company
> has filed for bankruptcy. So it looks like the end for Corbin Motors.
> http://www.corbinmotors.com/
>
> Tom Shay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone
under
>
>
> > The last update for their "daily news" on the website was the 20th of
> March.
> > Doesn't look good. Maybe they're taking a few weeks off to conserve
> cash.
> > Let's hope so, anyway. It would just break my heart to see yet another
EV
> > business ^almost^ make it.
> >
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> > switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> > 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> > 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> > 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> > thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I'm Michael Hills. I've been lurking here for a while. I've met a few of
you when hanging out with my brother Jason when he was working on his white
MR2 that ended up in MA.
Anyway, I replied off-list to Peter about his buck converter description and
he thought the way I described it might be useful to have posted ot the
list. Somehow I missed Otmar's reply on this thread.
-- Original Mesage --
Peter,
I had a few comments about your description of how a motor controller works
with the motor as a buck converter. I was actually surprised that no one
else on the list brought these up, but maybe they just trusted that you
would get it right, since you generally are right on. I worry though that a
newbie who is just developing their understanding of how this works could be
confused by the way you presented this. I'm just a long time lurker, so I
didn't feel like introducing myself by contradicting you on list, but I
thought I'd tell you and let you post a correction if you think it would be
helpful.
The way I read it, you correctly describe a buck converter, but you seem to
have included the motor as the inductor for part of your description, but in
other parts treated the motor as simply the load on a buck converter.
The most obvious mistatement (that I used to confirm to myself that I wasn't
too confused) was : "If you look at the motor voltage with an O-scope, you
will see a DC voltage with a small AC sawtooth on top." If that were
actually true, then the freewheel diode would never actually conduct. In
the real world, the voltage, as seen on the input of the motor, will be
roughly a square wave from -0.??V (drop across diode) to pack voltage
(capacitor voltage with small drop across switch).
Also, you state: "When the switch turns on, the motors inductance initially
fights the flow of current but eventually (again microseconds here) current
starts flowing. When the voltage builds up to the desired level the switch
turns off." Yes, the inductance fights a sudden change in current, but the
voltage can and does change suddenly. The voltage across the output of a
buck converter powering a resistive load (or a load with much less
inductance than the buck converter) would build up, but you're talking about
the input to the motor which is actually a point in the middle of the buck
converter when using the motor inductance as your inductor in the buck
converter. I have the same complaint about this statement as well:
"Naturally since noting is creating this current flow except the collapsing
field in the motor, it starts to decay and the voltage starts dropping.
Before it gets too low the switch turns on again and current flows into
the motor and it's voltage starts building up again." The voltage across
the motor doesn't "start dropping". It plummets immediately (slowed only by
stray capacitance in the wiring) to -0.??V when the diode starts conducting.
It is the current that is dropping gradually. In a buck converter feeding
a resistive load, yes the output voltage of the buck converter would be
dropping gradually.
I definitely see how this would be difficult to explain in a simple
straightforward way. I think the best explanations I've seen involved
explaining a buck converter with a resistive load to explain how a buck
converter creates a greater current at a lower voltage, then erase the line
around the buck converter and replace the inductor and load with the motor.
Then you don't have to get into the fact that in a real motor with PWM
controller you may not actually be able to measure the output voltage of the
buck converter created with a controller and motor.
Now that I think about it though, you might be able to measure something
very close to this voltage by measuring across the armature of a series
wound motor since most of the inductance is in the field (IIRC) and most of
the voltage drop (when the motor is spinning) is in the armature. On a
permanent magnet motor both the inductance and load are in the same winding,
so there is no way to actually measure the output voltage of the buck
converter.
Any corrections to my corrections?
BTW thanks for taking the time to help everyone with their questions on the
list.
-Michael Hills
(no real EV yet)
From :
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To :
EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject :
Buck converters (was Re: AC controllers)
Date :
27 Mar 2003 16:09:04 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MIME-Version: 1.0Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Good question, probably time to describe this again.
A PWM Buck converter needs four main components.
A input filter capacitor
A switch (usually a power transistor of some kind)
A freewheeling diode
and an inductor (the motor in this case)
Now for a little electronics basics:
A capacitor resists a change in voltage. It does this by absorbing
voltage that is higher than it's current charge and supplying voltage
when the voltage drops below it's current charge.
An inductor resists a change in current. What happens when you
initially try to push current through an inductor is that this creates
an expanding magnetic field. This expanding field creates EMF in the
coil that resists the creation of the field and the flow of current. So
the current doesn't just instantly start flowing, it builds up slowly
(talking microseconds here), until it reaches what ever current the
circuit will allow (in a DC circuit this is limited only by resistance).
When you shut of the current the magnetic field in the inductor starts
to collapse. This also creates EMF, only this EMF doesn't fight the
current but is of the opposite polarity and tries to keep the current
flowing.
If there is no path for the current the the voltage across the coil
builds up in an effort to force current to flow, this is what causes
arcing of contacts.
If there is a path for current to flow (like a diode) then the current
continues to flow and slowly decays (due to the resistance in the
circuit)
OK back to the Buck converter.
When the switch turns on, the motors inductance initially fights the
flow of current but eventually (again microseconds here) current starts
flowing. When the voltage builds up to the desired level the switch
turns off.
The way the freewheeling diode is installed it is reverse biased by the
voltage through the switch (so you don't waste any power in it).
When the switch turns off the motor's inductance wants the current to
keep flowing. It is actually trying to draw, or suck current.
The path for this current is through the freewheeling diode, which now
ends up forward biased by the motor sucking current.
Naturally since noting is creating this current flow except the
collapsing field in the motor, it starts to decay and the voltage starts
dropping.
Before it gets too low the switch turns on again and current flows into
the motor and it's voltage starts building up again.
Now on the battery side of the switch what you see is a huge current
draw, and then nothing, and then huge current, etc.
This current is equal to the current in the motor (you see that right?)
The input capacitors charge up to the battery voltage and try to keep
the voltage stable. They do this by sourcing current when the demand
quickly jumps up and drawing current from the batteries (to recharge
their voltage) when the load drops off. The net result is that they
even out the current that appears at the batteries.
So the large current spikes get sourced by the capacitors and the
battery sees a current that is equal to the time averaged current going
through the switch. In other words if the switch is passing 100 amps
when it is on and zero amps when it is off and it is on 50% of the time,
then the filter caps make this look to the batteries like a constant 50
amps draw.
The, motor on the other hand, is seeing 100 amps but the voltage across
it is only about 1/2 the batteries voltage. This is because the switch
is only turned on half the time so it's voltage never gets to build up
to full pack voltage.
The net result is that power out(volts x amps) = power in minus losses.
The losses are because none of the components are perfect. We lose a
little power in each of them, from the capacitor to the diode.
If you change the duty cycle to 25% on, then the motor voltage is only
25% of the pack voltage. The difference between the two voltages is
higher so when the switch turns on a higher current tries to flow. Net
result is that current in the motor is almost four times what the
batteries see.
If you look at the motor voltage with an O-scope, you will see a DC
voltage with a small AC sawtooth on top. This saw tooth is the voltage
charging up and decaying when the switch turns on and off.
If you measure the voltage on the input side of the capacitors you will
see a DC voltage with a small saw tooth on it. This saw tooth is caused
by the capacitors charging and discharging. Measuring the current here
you will see a DC current with a saw tooth (the capacitor isn't
perfect).
Measure the current at the switch and you will see an on/off current at
what ever duty cycle the controller is running at.
Everybody is happy (except Garry) the laws of physics are intact, and
everything operates they way it is supposed to according to accepted
electronics theory.
I'm still trying to understand how the PWM controller acts as a DC
transformer ( using the DC to DC Buck converter principle?) to put all
those extra electron to the motor. Are there any good tutorial type
references about this? Thanks,
_________________________________________________________________
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
Considering the state of the corp, and that nobody has worked in the
building for over a week, AND that it was posted early yesterday, NO, I
sincerely doubt that it's a joke.
At 11:15 AM 4/1/2003 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did anyone remember the date today?
Is it possible that what we are seeing on the Corbin Motors website is
just
an April Fools Joke (a sick one if it is)?
Wallace
How may I assist you?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV'r up LATE wrote:
> This may have been discussed already, but generates some question
> regarding balancing at the end of charge. Watt do you think?
> http://www.commutercars.com/downloads/batteryCharging/chargeAlgorithm.pdf
There are lots of oversimplifications in this report. Yes, they got 700
cycles out of batteries rated for 200 cycles. But the methods they used
are not feasible for electric vehicles.
1. The batteries were run so hot (120-140 deg.F) that their calendar
life would have been very short. The batteries would have died
within several months at these temperatures even if they weren't
cycled.
2. Notice the huge amount of cooling air (470 cfm), and that they
chilled this air to 13 deg.C.
3. They didn't correct the amphour capacity for temperature. Capacity
goes up at higher temperatures, so a battery that has "failed" at
room temperature (80% capacity) "passes" when it is very hot.
4. Batteries were replaced individually as they failed. The whole pack
didn't last 700 cycles; only a few did. Of the 24 batteries in the
their 288v pack, only #5, #9, #10, #15, and #23 survived to the end.
5. They were charging a 288v pack at 50-100 amps. That takes a massive
charger, far bigger than the average person can afford.
6. Their "balancing" technique was to charge each battery at 5 amps
for 1/2 to 2 hours (all batteries the same), and let 'em heat up
and vent. This is basically what you do for flooded batteries.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, is the Gell Cell wearing out? If not why not leave it as is and
see what other ideas come up between now and when it needs replacement.
You know, the old "If it works..."
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 07:38, Bob Bath wrote:
> The first CivicWithACord had a problem with high
> loads-- the (motorcycle) aux. battery and DCDC had a
> tough time keeping up with it when lights, wipers,
> heater, defroster, etc. were all on. So their
> solution was to install a gel cel 33Ah batt. That
> seems to have solved their problem, _and_ allowed the
> aux batt. to stay in close proximity to the DCDC and
> fuse boxes (under the hood). This is a $65 battery.
> I'm thinking a bit outside the box. I've got
> plenty of nooks and crannies _in the trunk_ to stash
> the group 45 (standard size) aux. battery. It seems
> to me that with this approach, I'd save $$$, because I
> generally get 5-6 years out of the group 45s, and the
> gel cels are only forecasted to last 3 years. Plus,
> the group 45s are cheaper to begin with.
> Downside: I'd need to run about 17' of 10 ga. wire
> the length of the car, and have E= IR losses. Not
> having a resistance chart in front of me, will this
> length be substantial? And are there other issues I'm
> not considering?
> Appreciatively,
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A look around their website shows that they are planning on having a
refueling program. In the end they need a network of places to collect the
used fuel which is now Zinc Oxide and distribute new Zinc plates. They will
reprocess the Zinc Oxide to create new plates. This looks nice on their
charts, but is obviously infrastructure which is not currently in place and
probably will not ever be in the US.
From: Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Electric Bicycle
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:24:53 -0800
but it looks like it isnt rechargable? you end up buying a bunch of
disposable batteries (err, fuel cells), and replacing them every few days?
if it is rechargable in 3 minutes, thats great, but it sounds like a step
backwards if you end up creating more trash. does anyone know more about
this "3 minute mechanical refuel?"
thats been my major concern with fuel cells... where do you get the
hydrogen? if it ends up just being a more efficient battery, thats cool, or
a more efficient (cleaner) means of converting gasoline to electricity,
thats cool too. neither one sounds as revolutionary as the hype surrounding
it.
if it could allow you to use gasoline in a clean, quiet, and efficient
manner for a small powered vehicle, that would rock. if i could get
500-100mpg on a fuel cell bike with no noise or exhaust, id be sold!
--travis
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
http://www.powerzinc.com/en/index-2-c2-1.htm
Electric Bicycle
Range per refuel: up to 250 KM
Average 7 - 10 days per refuel < 3 Min per refuel
No need to wait for 8 hours or to drag 15Kg upstairs
Life-time warranty Never need to replace!
Fuel Cell Specification:
Norminal Voltage: 24V
Energy: 1800Wh / 76Ah (C5)
Weight: 10.7 Kg Size: 30 x 18 x 15 cm
.
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hills wrote:
> I had a few comments about your description of how a motor controller
> works with the motor as a buck converter... you seem to have included
> the motor as the inductor for part of your description, but in other
> parts treated the motor as simply the load on a buck converter.
>
> "If you look at the motor voltage with an O-scope, you will see a DC
> voltage with a small AC sawtooth on top." If that were actually true,
> then the freewheel diode would never actually conduct. In the real
> world, the voltage, as seen on the input of the motor, will be
> roughly a square wave from -0.??V (drop across diode) to pack voltage
> (capacitor voltage with small drop across switch).
Correct. The best way to think of it is to treat a series motor as two
separate parts; an "inductor" which is the field winding, and the
"motor" which is the armature alone.
The "inductor" is really a part of the PWM controller; not the motor.
Treated like this, the "motor" voltage really is a DC voltage with a
sawtooth riding on it, and the junction between the MOSFET, diode, and
inductor really is a square wave at full pack voltage, and the diode
does conduct during the MOSFET off time.
> The voltage across the output of a buck converter powering a resistive
> load (or a load with much less inductance than the buck converter)
> would build up...
Except that the armature of the motor behaves more like a fixed DC
voltage (defined by the motor's field current and RPM), with a small
resistance in series (from the brushes and copper wire).
If the armature behaved like a resistor, then you would need a (huge)
capacitor bank at the buck converter's output to smooth the output
voltage.
> Now that I think about it though, you might be able to measure
> something very close to this voltage by measuring across the
> armature of a series wound motor since most of the inductance
> is in the field (IIRC) and most of the voltage drop (when the motor
> is spinning) is in the armature.
Exactly!
> On a permanent magnet motor both the inductance and load are in
> the same winding, so there is no way to actually measure the output
> voltage of the buck converter.
Except that without a series field, a PM motor has very little
inductance. You usually have to add a physical inductor to make a PM
motor work efficiently with a PWM buck converter.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For anyone that may be interested in attending, the annual EV
Challenge will be held in Raleigh NC April 11th and 12th. This is of
course barring any unforseen circumstances caused by events
overseas.
Schedule, directions, lodging, and other pertinent info can be
found on the Triangle EAA website. Also, any postponement or
cancellation caused by the above mentioned circumstances will be
announced on the website.
To attend the second day's events, which will be held at a
government facility, you need to contact the Triangle EAA by April
9th to have your name added to the security list, and have a photo
ID with you to gain entrance.
I finally managed to get a week's vacation scheduled at the
same time, so I'll be able to attend both days this year. I talked
with Eric Ryan the other day and volunteered to help out in some
capacity, either with the range event or in technical judging. Hey,
extra points for anyone using a Zapi with regen (just kidding).
Mitch Oates
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marine Corps General Reinwald was interviewed on the radio the other
day by a female interviewer concerning guns and children. Regardless of
how you feel about gun control this is one of the best comeback lines
of all time. It is a portion of a National Public Radio (NPR) interview
between the female broadcaster and US Marine Corps General Reinwald as
he was preparing to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military
installation.
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
So, General Reinwald, what things are you going to teach these young
boys when they visit your base?
GENERAL REINWALD:
We're going to each them climbing, canoeing, archery, and shooting.
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?
GENERAL REINWALD:
I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be
teaching children?
GENERAL REINWALD:
I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline
before they even touch a firearm.
FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
But you're equipping them to become violent killers.
GENERAL REINWALD:
Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?
The radio went silent and the interview ended.
You gotta love those Marines!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Previous post was by mistake.
My bad...
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wouldn't it be possible for them to continue in spite of a bankruptcy?
ZAP did so, and
aren't there airlines in bankruptcy still flying? Does it have to be
the end of their
business?
Gail
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> Very sad. Just the other day I saw a little old lady from Pasadena type
> driving a Sparrow up Valencia street in San Francisco. Yes her head was
> just clearing the steering wheel. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
>
> > Today, March 31, a message on their website says that the company
> > has filed for bankruptcy. So it looks like the end for Corbin Motors.
> > http://www.corbinmotors.com/
> >
> > Tom Shay
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll bet all these vehicles will be capable of being built with multiple
power sources. Lawrence Rhodes....
1.
CHRYSLER ALMIGHTY!
If you've read the automotive pages over the past few months, you
know that big changes are afoot in the auto industry. First, General
Motors announced a long-term push to develop a non-polluting,
hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle called "Hy-wire." More recently, Ford
unveiled a "Model U" prototype that is almost 100-percent recyclable.
Now, Daimler-Chrysler is tossing its hat into the eco-vehicle ring:
The automaker has announced that it is developing a new line of
vehicles, dubbed CAR 1.1, that it says will emit only a few trace
atmospheric gases and particles. According to Chrysler, the new cars
will be fueled by hydrogen-carbon compounds that are abundant in
nature. The technology behind the new vehicles' engines is
surprisingly simple: hydrogen-carbon compounds will be combined in a
reaction chamber with oxygen from the atmosphere, creating small
bursts of energy that move pistons attached to a crankshaft. Says
Daimler-Chrysler CEO Jaig Schremp, "We'll be using the power of
combustion to make transportation fun, easy, and environmentally
friendly."
straight to the source: Detroit Free Press, Riley Finn, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=957>
straight to the source: San Francisco Chronicle, Associated Press,
Jonathan Levinson, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=962>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They were giving it away. Now you pay for it and they make the money.. Who
said greed wasn't the solution. Lawrence Rhodes.......
4.
HAPPY WHEELS
Adjusting to the times, McDonald's unveiled a new business plan
earlier this week that involves opening biodiesel stations adjacent
to its burger franchises. Biodiesel, an environmentally friendly
alternative to diesel fuel, can be made by recycling the cooking oil
used by Micky D's. Several industry analysts said the fast-food
chain was making the move to improve both the company's image and its
bottom line. For the last several years, McDonald's has been
struggling financially as anti-globalization advocates have tarred it
as a symbol of U.S. imperialism, and as healthful eating has gained
mainstream appeal. Company spokesperson Fiona Leary called the
filling stations "a natural extension" of the company's business and
mission, but Lila Cousins, an alternative fuels expert with the
Natural Resources Defense Council, described the development as
"pleasantly flabbergasting."
straight to the source: Wall Street Journal, Cordelia Chase, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=958>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Gail Lucas wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible for them to continue in spite of a bankruptcy?
ZAP did so, and
aren't there airlines in bankruptcy still flying? Does it have to be
the end of their
business?
Gail
I think its Chapter 13 that allows the company to stay in business.
Corbin Motors filed for Chapter 7.
What a scum bag, I wonder how long this guy was planning to rip off the
company just to pay his personal debts?
Matt
--
Honda Insight '01 Monte Carlo Blue
Honda Valkyrie Interstate '99 Forest Green
Honda CR-V '98 Jet Black
Apple Dual 1GHz PowerMac G4
Apple iBook 12.1" 800MHz
Kyocera 7135 Smartphone on Verizon
Custom Audio Adapters! Use standard stereo headphones on your 7135!
<http://www.geocities.com/nokmout/adapter.html>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin Campbell wrote:
>
> Previous post was by mistake.
> My bad...
> J. Marvin Campbell
> Culver City, CA
Don't feel too bad, you made my Red neck day..
This line is not as fresh as you think... but it sure hits the nail on
the head.
She was foolish enough to tout a anti gun line on a profesional gun
touter. GEeeZ lady what do you think Tanks and rifles are???
In the last few weeks some of you know that I spent a week on the east
Coast attending my Grand mother's funeral. As a tribute to my
grandfather it's quite traditional for the Men in The Rudman clan to
find what is left of Granpa's rifle collection, and make some noise to
the Old Smith that he was. It's usaually kinda hard to see through the
scope because of the tears of rememberance to times long ago when
Grandpa and Dad showed all how to do it safe and controlled. Granpa took
his saftey and rules rather sternly, and so does every guy in the
familly, guiding and informing the littler tykes as we learned and spent
time handling the equipment.
Well My sister, Cindy is now a rather firm Quaker, and death and
violence are not what she is teaching her two boys about in this rather
brutal world, especially now, and as I recall this was happening on the
first day, and within hours of Zero hour of our Kick off into Irag. It
was clear that her boys found guns really interesting and that my
brother in Law was really wanting his boys to at least know and feel
safe around firearms. Cindy was a bit quite, but understood that in this
familly Guns are many generations deep. There is no better teacher to
your kids than thier Grandfather , and our Dad is now that to her Kids.
Out in the old snow that was left from the coldest and snowiest winter
the North woods have seen in decades, and not far from Gramp's old
shooting bench, we found some tin cans that needed some ventallation.
Scott found some ammo for the 222. I think 3 of us present have taken
Woodchucks with this very gun in 4 or 5 different decades, I know I
have. Dad ran a couple of rounds through it and tweaked the scope back
to Rudman spec. Danny boy took his first shot and on the second
vaporized a can full of Snow. Gulp swallow, not bad for the first time
in his life to shoot a real gun. Dad, then put a .222 hole in a quater
off hand at about 100 ft. It surprised him as much as it did the rest of
us. We all took a shot and then went back to clean the gear and face the
real world of CNN and Fox and the desert reports, knowing there is a new
generation that knows how to shoot and be safe while enjoying a sport
that is truely in our blood.
Back to building Green boxes for us all....
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The main reason why CNG and H2 combustion engines have near-zero emissions
is because of the lack of carbon in the fuel source. Once again, the big
automakers miss the point. If their just remove the carbon they might be
emissions-free.
So much easier if they'd just cut the crap and build battery electrics.
BTW, the Hy-wire claimed to get 300 miles range, but even with 3 over-sized
H2 tanks only gets 60 miles range.
Why re-invent the car when BEVs are successful.
Then again, the automakers would rather throw money at PR, lawyers and R&D
than some real solutions...
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Chrysler Almighty!
I'll bet all these vehicles will be capable of being built with multiple
power sources. Lawrence Rhodes....
1.
CHRYSLER ALMIGHTY!
If you've read the automotive pages over the past few months, you
know that big changes are afoot in the auto industry. First, General
Motors announced a long-term push to develop a non-polluting,
hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle called "Hy-wire." More recently, Ford
unveiled a "Model U" prototype that is almost 100-percent recyclable.
Now, Daimler-Chrysler is tossing its hat into the eco-vehicle ring:
The automaker has announced that it is developing a new line of
vehicles, dubbed CAR 1.1, that it says will emit only a few trace
atmospheric gases and particles. According to Chrysler, the new cars
will be fueled by hydrogen-carbon compounds that are abundant in
nature. The technology behind the new vehicles' engines is
surprisingly simple: hydrogen-carbon compounds will be combined in a
reaction chamber with oxygen from the atmosphere, creating small
bursts of energy that move pistons attached to a crankshaft. Says
Daimler-Chrysler CEO Jaig Schremp, "We'll be using the power of
combustion to make transportation fun, easy, and environmentally
friendly."
straight to the source: Detroit Free Press, Riley Finn, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=957>
straight to the source: San Francisco Chronicle, Associated Press,
Jonathan Levinson, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=962>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are going under chapter 7 which is liquidation of all assets.. The
airlines and others, like say worldcom, are under different types which are
basically get creditors off their back in different degrees while they
restructure and pay them back with future earnings.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/bankruptcy.html
has some info or
http://www.abiworld.org/media/chapters.html
and many other sites around..
But I don't know why corbin is going with chapter 7 rather then 11,12 or 13.
I wish they were allowed in CT so I could have had one or could get one.
Gail Lucas writes:
Wouldn't it be possible for them to continue in spite of a bankruptcy?
ZAP did so, and
aren't there airlines in bankruptcy still flying? Does it have to be
the end of their
business?
Gail
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Very sad. Just the other day I saw a little old lady from Pasadena type
driving a Sparrow up Valencia street in San Francisco. Yes her head was
just clearing the steering wheel. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
> Today, March 31, a message on their website says that the company
> has filed for bankruptcy. So it looks like the end for Corbin Motors.
> http://www.corbinmotors.com/
>
> Tom Shay
Mark Hastings
'83 S-10 EV Blazer
www.geocities.com/evblazer
--- End Message ---
