EV Digest 2696
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Chrysler Almighty! Humor,
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Bicycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Marines on NPR
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: corbin motors gone under
by keith bierman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric Bicycle
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Marines on NPR
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Bicycle
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT Do you want fries with your biodiesel?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: scooter
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Advice: placing aux batt. in rear
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Re: Marines on NPR
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVs Cross the Bridge for Free?
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Electric Bicycle
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Universal terminals
by "Alan Shedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electric Bicycle
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: smart charger options?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: TdS Report #6: Program Notes: Category PROTOTYPE BATTERY ELECTRIC
VEHICLES
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
Okay, so what happens to their assets? I assume they get sold somehow
(auction?) so the money can go to pay the creditors. Might this be an
opportunity for either: (a) someone with investment capital to purchase
all the remaining cars, equipment, molds, etc. and put together a
financially viable company, or (b) individuals to purchase either
complete Sparrows or rolling chassis at significant discounts?
I hate to sound like a vulture. I am truly sorry to see Corbin go
under. The Sparrow did seem to be making some small headway into the
market. I've seen more of them during my commute than EV1s, RAV4EVs,
and EV+s combined. I don't plan to take advantage of it, but am
wondering whether this presents an opportunity for some...
Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Guys,
Don't forget todays date,
Grist magazine takes humor seriously.
1.
CHRYSLER ALMIGHTY!
Click on the links...
straight to the source: Detroit Free Press, Riley Finn, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=957>
straight to the source: San Francisco Chronicle, Associated Press,
Jonathan Levinson, 01 Apr 2003
<http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=962>
Have fun!
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What on earth are you talking about? Corbin financed the majority of
the Sparrow project with money from his own pockets.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 14:33, Matthew Muelver wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 11:43 AM, Gail Lucas wrote:
> > Wouldn't it be possible for them to continue in spite of a bankruptcy?
> > ZAP did so, and
> > aren't there airlines in bankruptcy still flying? Does it have to be
> > the end of their
> > business?
> >
> > Gail
>
> I think its Chapter 13 that allows the company to stay in business.
> Corbin Motors filed for Chapter 7.
>
> What a scum bag, I wonder how long this guy was planning to rip off the
> company just to pay his personal debts?
>
> Matt
> --
> Honda Insight '01 Monte Carlo Blue
> Honda Valkyrie Interstate '99 Forest Green
> Honda CR-V '98 Jet Black
> Apple Dual 1GHz PowerMac G4
> Apple iBook 12.1" 800MHz
> Kyocera 7135 Smartphone on Verizon
> Custom Audio Adapters! Use standard stereo headphones on your 7135!
> <http://www.geocities.com/nokmout/adapter.html>
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's the problem with this technology. I think the answer is to convince
a bunch of EV drivers to go in together to develop a facility. This
facility could possibly be associated with public transit or lets say a
scooter rental or car rental company. It costs about a million dollars to
set up a refueling facility. The other posibility is to scale down the
machine to single user size. Wonder if Rich Rudman knows the process and
has an idea of how to make a zinc reprocessing unit. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Bicycle
> A look around their website shows that they are planning on having a
> refueling program. In the end they need a network of places to collect
the
> used fuel which is now Zinc Oxide and distribute new Zinc plates. They
will
> reprocess the Zinc Oxide to create new plates. This looks nice on their
> charts, but is obviously infrastructure which is not currently in place
and
> probably will not ever be in the US.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Travis Raybold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: Electric Bicycle
> >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 07:24:53 -0800
> >
> >but it looks like it isnt rechargable? you end up buying a bunch of
> >disposable batteries (err, fuel cells), and replacing them every few
days?
> >
> >if it is rechargable in 3 minutes, thats great, but it sounds like a step
> >backwards if you end up creating more trash. does anyone know more about
> >this "3 minute mechanical refuel?"
> >
> >thats been my major concern with fuel cells... where do you get the
> >hydrogen? if it ends up just being a more efficient battery, thats cool,
or
> >a more efficient (cleaner) means of converting gasoline to electricity,
> >thats cool too. neither one sounds as revolutionary as the hype
surrounding
> >it.
> >
> >if it could allow you to use gasoline in a clean, quiet, and efficient
> >manner for a small powered vehicle, that would rock. if i could get
> >500-100mpg on a fuel cell bike with no noise or exhaust, id be sold!
> >
> >--travis
> >
> >
> >Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >> http://www.powerzinc.com/en/index-2-c2-1.htm
> >>
> >>
> >>Electric Bicycle
> >>
> >>
> >> Range per refuel: up to 250 KM
> >> Average 7 - 10 days per refuel < 3 Min per refuel
> >> No need to wait for 8 hours or to drag 15Kg upstairs
> >> Life-time warranty Never need to replace!
> >>
> >>Fuel Cell Specification:
> >>Norminal Voltage: 24V
> >>Energy: 1800Wh / 76Ah (C5)
> >>Weight: 10.7 Kg Size: 30 x 18 x 15 cm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>.
> >>
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except that it's an urban legend. See:
http://www.snopes.com/military/reinwald.htm
FWIW, I've listened to NPR for years. Their stories are not always
well-balanced, but I've never heard any kind of exchange like this
"interview".
Tim
----------
From : Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject : Re: Marines on NPR
Date : Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:45:05 -0800
Don't feel too bad, you made my Red neck day..
This line is not as fresh as you think... but it sure hits the nail on
the head.
She was foolish enough to tout a anti gun line on a profesional gun
touter. GEeeZ lady what do you think Tanks and rifles are???
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Su
Wouldn't it be possible for them to continue in spite of a bankruptcy?
ZAP did so, and
aren't there airlines in bankruptcy still flying? Does it have to be
the end of their
business?
A quick google search on bankruptcy chapter 7 11 13 will uncover many
tutorials.
Corbin is in chapter 7. The other examples you provide were one of the
other chapters (typically 11, if memory serves).
In chapter 7 a Trustee sells off all of the non-exempt assets. It's
intended to be a final act.
of course, some of the creditors might get the rights to the name and
whatever else necessary to continue the product. But, as I understand
the online tutorials, CorbinMotors, as such, will be no more.
--
Keith H. Bierman [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
Sun Microsystems Laboratories | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15 Network Circle UMPK 15-224 | 650-352-4432 voice+fax
Menlo Park, California 94025 | sun internal 68207
<speaking for myself, not Sun*> Copyright 2003
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forget the fuel cell; I want to know how they got an electric bicycle to go
250 KM on 1,800Wh! Must be April Fool's Day.
Tim
----------
From : "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject : Electric Bicycle
Date : Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:48:50 -0800
Range per refuel: up to 250 KM
Average 7 - 10 days per refuel
< 3 Min per refuel
No need to wait for 8 hours or to drag 15Kg upstairs
Life-time warranty
Never need to replace!
Fuel Cell Specification:
Norminal Voltage: 24V
Energy: 1800Wh / 76Ah (C5)
Weight: 10.7 Kg
Size: 30 x 18 x 15 cm
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awe, but it's such a nice urban legend...
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 15:22, Tim Clevenger wrote:
> Except that it's an urban legend. See:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/military/reinwald.htm
>
> FWIW, I've listened to NPR for years. Their stories are not always
> well-balanced, but I've never heard any kind of exchange like this
> "interview".
>
> Tim
>
> ----------
> >From : Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject : Re: Marines on NPR
> Date : Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:45:05 -0800
>
> Don't feel too bad, you made my Red neck day..
>
> This line is not as fresh as you think... but it sure hits the nail on
> the head.
> She was foolish enough to tout a anti gun line on a profesional gun
> touter. GEeeZ lady what do you think Tanks and rifles are???
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What a scum bag, I wonder how long this guy was planning to rip off the
> company just to pay his personal debts?
I must say, I rejoice in the passing of Corbin.
It was obvious, from the many flaws in the sparrow, and the way he did
business, that he was getting all sorts of negative publicity for electric
vehicles. He's exactly what we don't need - someone who won't take advice,
doesn't know that much about EVs, doesn't want to learn, and will take your
deposit up front thank you very muhc.
I just feel sorry for all the people he shafted along the way.
RIP, Corbin.
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now I'm confused. 250 km seems like a perfectly reasonable number.
The average cyclist requires approx 200 watts to go 20 mph. That's
roughly 32 km per 200 wh. 1,800 wh equals approx 9 hours at this speed
or 288 km.
Of course the motor is not 100% efficient, but it only requires an 87%
efficient motor to go 250 km with 1,800 wh.
What makes you think this is a joke?
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 15:33, Tim Clevenger wrote:
> Forget the fuel cell; I want to know how they got an electric bicycle to go
> 250 KM on 1,800Wh! Must be April Fool's Day.
>
> Tim
>
> ----------
> >From : "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject : Electric Bicycle
> Date : Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:48:50 -0800
>
>
> Range per refuel: up to 250 KM
> Average 7 - 10 days per refuel
> < 3 Min per refuel
> No need to wait for 8 hours or to drag 15Kg upstairs
> Life-time warranty
> Never need to replace!
>
> Fuel Cell Specification:
> Norminal Voltage: 24V
> Energy: 1800Wh / 76Ah (C5)
> Weight: 10.7 Kg
> Size: 30 x 18 x 15 cm
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is an April Fool joke, isn't it?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: OT Do you want fries with your biodiesel?
> They were giving it away. Now you pay for it and they make the money..
Who
> said greed wasn't the solution. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
> 4.
> HAPPY WHEELS
> Adjusting to the times, McDonald's unveiled a new business plan
> earlier this week that involves opening biodiesel stations adjacent
> to its burger franchises. Biodiesel, an environmentally friendly
> alternative to diesel fuel, can be made by recycling the cooking oil
> used by Micky D's. Several industry analysts said the fast-food
> chain was making the move to improve both the company's image and its
> bottom line. For the last several years, McDonald's has been
> struggling financially as anti-globalization advocates have tarred it
> as a symbol of U.S. imperialism, and as healthful eating has gained
> mainstream appeal. Company spokesperson Fiona Leary called the
> filling stations "a natural extension" of the company's business and
> mission, but Lila Cousins, an alternative fuels expert with the
> Natural Resources Defense Council, described the development as
> "pleasantly flabbergasting."
>
> straight to the source: Wall Street Journal, Cordelia Chase, 01 Apr 2003
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=958>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what kind of usage do the scooters get for 200 lb person?
typical ranges.
Watts/mile
thanks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think it would be possible to restructure Corbin's debts and
repay the debts from future earnings. The main problem is
probably that the creditors don't see any prospects for future
earnings. I don't see any prospects either.
My feelings about this are mixed. I like the idea of one-person
EVs and hope that someday somebody can succeed at
making them and selling them. But I won't grieve for the
Sparrow or for Corbin Motors. The car and the company had
profound and unsolvable problems. We'll be better
off without them. My optimistic side thinks that others
have watched the Sparrow phenomenon and learned enough to
succeed where Corbin and the Sparrow have failed.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone under
> They are going under chapter 7 which is liquidation of all assets.. The
> airlines and others, like say worldcom, are under different types which
are
> basically get creditors off their back in different degrees while they
> restructure and pay them back with future earnings.
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/bankruptcy.html
> has some info or
> http://www.abiworld.org/media/chapters.html
> and many other sites around..
>
> But I don't know why corbin is going with chapter 7 rather then 11,12 or
13.
> I wish they were allowed in CT so I could have had one or could get one.
> Gail Lucas writes:
>
> >
> > Wouldn't it be possible for them to continue in spite of a bankruptcy?
> > ZAP did so, and
> > aren't there airlines in bankruptcy still flying? Does it have to be
> > the end of their
> > business?
> >
> > Gail
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >>
> >> Very sad. Just the other day I saw a little old lady from Pasadena
type
> >> driving a Sparrow up Valencia street in San Francisco. Yes her head
was
> >> just clearing the steering wheel. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:31 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone
under
> >>
> >> > Today, March 31, a message on their website says that the company
> >> > has filed for bankruptcy. So it looks like the end for Corbin
Motors.
> >> > http://www.corbinmotors.com/
> >> >
> >> > Tom Shay
>
>
> Mark Hastings
> '83 S-10 EV Blazer
> www.geocities.com/evblazer
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jon "Sheer" Pullen
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 3:49 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Corbin Motors (makers of the Sparrow) seems to have gone
> under
>
>
> > What a scum bag, I wonder how long this guy was planning to rip off the
> > company just to pay his personal debts?
>
> I must say, I rejoice in the passing of Corbin.
>
> It was obvious, from the many flaws in the sparrow, and the way he did
> business, that he was getting all sorts of negative publicity for electric
> vehicles. He's exactly what we don't need - someone who won't take advice,
> doesn't know that much about EVs, doesn't want to learn, and will
> take your
> deposit up front thank you very muhc.
>
> I just feel sorry for all the people he shafted along the way.
>
> RIP, Corbin.
>
> S.
>
On the other hand, we must also give Corbin some credit of putting almost
300 EVs on the road while others are trying all they could to kill EV
mandates. I have no comment about the way they managed Corbin Motors. But,
I must say that it took some guts to start making EVs without much prior
experience and without any mandate from the government.
It is hard enough to start a business. Some companies succeed, but most
fail. It is even harder to start a company that makes electric cars. So
far, none to my knowledge has succeeded yet.
I feel very sorry for those investors that got screwed by Corbin, but all
investment carries a risk. How many of us got screwed by the busted dot
com's? We knew very well to expect the worse when we bought into their
dreams. So, we can't really blame 100% on Corbin. If you only listen to
one side of the story before doing some in-depth research when you bought
into the dream, you've got to take some responsibilities also.
Don't take me wrong. I do not agree with the way Corbin Motors conducted
its business. But then, I do not agree with the way a lot of companies
conduct their businesses.
At the very least, Corbin has showed others how not to run an EV company.
Over the past 2.5 years, I have put more than 20,000 miles on my white
Corbin Sparrow while GM still owes me an EV1 test drive. Now, I am still
commuting in my Sparrow everyday. This concept is pretty promising. And,
without my Sparrow, I would have burned a lot of gas.
Ed Ang
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since this solution was employed, Lynn has only about
400 miles on the vehicle, so it's a bit early to know
if "projected" life spans on the gel cels are on the
mark or not.
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob, is the Gell Cell wearing out? If not why not
> leave it as is and
> see what other ideas come up between now and when it
> needs replacement.
>
> You know, the old "If it works..."
>
> On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 07:38, Bob Bath wrote:
> > The first CivicWithACord had a problem with high
> > loads-- the (motorcycle) aux. battery and DCDC had
> a
> > tough time keeping up with it when lights, wipers,
> > heater, defroster, etc. were all on. So their
> > solution was to install a gel cel 33Ah batt. That
> > seems to have solved their problem, _and_ allowed
> the
> > aux batt. to stay in close proximity to the DCDC
> and
> > fuse boxes (under the hood). This is a $65
> battery.
> > I'm thinking a bit outside the box. I've got
> > plenty of nooks and crannies _in the trunk_ to
> stash
> > the group 45 (standard size) aux. battery. It
> seems
> > to me that with this approach, I'd save $$$,
> because I
> > generally get 5-6 years out of the group 45s, and
> the
> > gel cels are only forecasted to last 3 years.
> Plus,
> > the group 45s are cheaper to begin with.
> > Downside: I'd need to run about 17' of 10 ga.
> wire
> > the length of the car, and have E= IR losses. Not
> > having a resistance chart in front of me, will
> this
> > length be substantial? And are there other issues
> I'm
> > not considering?
> > Appreciatively,
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators,
> forms, and more
> > http://platinum.yahoo.com
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://platinum.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2003 at 14:22, Tim Clevenger wrote:
> Except that it's an urban legend. See:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/military/reinwald.htm
>
Thanks, Tim. I was suspicious, but didn't think to check the urban legend
pages.
I work in public radio and my first thought was, who the heck would ask
questions like ^those^? I actually did a search in the NPR archives, not
expecting to find it, and of course it wasn't there. Then I sent Marvin an
email asking where he'd heard it.
If I ever heard something like this on any public station anwhere, or got
solid documentation that it had been aired, I'd call up the station's news
director and we'd have a little chat about journalistic integrity. About
the only time you'd hear somebody like that on the air would be at some
little independent college station -- and very few of those. I know of some
pretty small and poverty-stricken NPR affilates, but the worst of them would
never put such an interviewer on the air.
I'm glad it's bogus, but it's really unfortunate that stuff like that makes
the rounds. It gives us a bad name. Kinda like what GM does to EVs. Which
we'd better get back to discussing post haste before the list cops (of which
I'm one <g>) yell at us.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Prius driver...(with a light hearted chuckle) "Oh, we're so busy gabbing
with each other,
> we don't know what's going on around us."
>
> I'm getting scared at the thought of such a clueless driver.....
>
Hi John, great stories again. I hear you and I'm with you. Sadly, I fear
that most of our society is exactly like this lady and her daughter. SO busy
gabbing, shopping, making the scene, keeping up appearnces; that they don't
know much about how to think about the world around them, let alone care
what is happening or pay attention. They are too busy paying for their
collection of burdens and eye candy.
> Prius driver...(continues her comments) "Well, don't you have to plug it
in?"
>
Oh, THAT was original, huh? LOL
> Me...."Yeah, it's wonderful! Because I can plug it in, it uses no gas at
all, and it
> makes no air pollution at all. Don't you have to go get gas to make your
car run?"
>
> Prius driver...(with a confused look on her face) "Well, yes, I do."
>
I sense the confused look must have been an inward conflict to justify that
all normal people buy gasoline and to do anything less is just not
...."normal".
(whatever normal is anyway)
> The light changed to green, they went straight ahead, and I turned to go
home. When I got
> there, it took me all of 10 seconds to plug my EV in (what a hardship), so
that while I
> ate my lunch, it was getting charged back up to full to be ready to take
off on my next
> errand....not a drop of gas or oil used, not a spec of air pollution
created.
>
Wish I could have a gas pump at my house, and put the old hose in the fill
neck and walk away until next morning. EV's are pretty neat.
Thanks for another ride at the wheel of the PR limosine John!! You should be
nominated as Cheif EV Ambassador for the Pacific States Region!!
Good reply to the guy with the hybrid who wants to cross for free as well.
Thanks for being out in front!
Regards and best wishes,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2003 at 15:48, Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> I must say, I rejoice in the passing of Corbin.
I've seen the screwups, at least from a distance, but I just can't agree
with this sentiment. Though I'm no business expert, I wonder if it might
have been possible to remove Corbin as CEO and replace him with someone who
could more effectively manage the company and hire engineers who could deal
with the car's problems. I find it hard to believe that they were entirely
unsolveable.
If a management coup had been conducted, say, six months ago, Corbin Motors
and the Sparrow might have been saved. Now it's just more grist for
Detroit's anti-EV mill: "See? That just proves that you can't make a
business of EVs."
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter,
Just thought I would add to your confusion :)
If you look around, instead of reaching for a calculator, you will note that
the average 100 watt e scooter, which is far lighter than a bike will with a
carrying limit of 80 kg, carry a child around at a top speed of around 12
kph NOT mph.
You will also note that the next model up usually has 180 or 200 watt motors
and these are able to do 20 kph NOT 20 mph.
You will also note that in the real world these never seem to have a range
exceeding 1 hour or there abouts, but of course they don't have the 76 amp
hours this one has.
My little 3 wheeler however does and with a speed of a whole 8.6 kph still
only manages to run for 3 to 4 hours and when the speed is increased to 35
kph, about your 20 mph figure the range drops to 20 minutes and this was 36
volts at 60 amp hours tested on the road on a motorbike frame.
The numbers always look good, but on paper I could expect up to 250
kilometers range on mine, but I just don't get it and I suspect that others
who have experimented in this scope with similar voltages, amp hour
batteries and weights of vehicle are a bit amused about claims like this,
that seem to exceed the reality they know.
I really liked the lifetime guarantee, but then I know I can make a battery
holder that will last a life time and I could sure make a system that
allowed you to change it in 1 minute not 5 :)
Good on them I say ...I want a set of those batteries, or do I ...maybe the
zinc costs a heap :)
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all who contributed to the battery terminal discussion. We began
wiring the new pack tonight using automotive style terminals crimped to 2/0
cable. There are some clearance problems between the battery terminals and
the "master vent" battery caps that limit wiring. I will put together some
photos later and get someone to help post them on a site for download. I
wanted to share the following email thread with Jim Le of Trojan Battery.
(Note, these are in reverse order - first email last)
I have not included the battery drawings in this post because of list
rules.
If anyone wants them, I can email them to you directly. The drawings are
dimensioned drawings of T-145s with three different terminal configurations.
I will be sorry to see the Trojan "UT" posts go in favor of the new
low-profile terminals. It would be a good research project for someone to
test Trojan's contention that the "LPT" posts are superior and will
withstand street EV current draws. Of course, few of us want to trash some
batteries or have the luxury of a non-critical application where post
failure would be acceptable even for test purposes.
-Alan
Hi Alan:
All I can say about the drawing is "OOOPS!" I completely forgot about it
by
the time I finished writing the e-mail. Let's try that again.
The first shows the Universal terminal (UT). It's still available but will
be discontinued in the near future. You might be able to order them
through
our distributors.
The second shows our standard "Wingnut" (WNT) configuration that are
(you're
correct) commonly found on golf car batteries. This style has been
discontinued although we are still doing some short production runs to take
care of customers who needed more time to convert to the new style.
Contrary to popular belief, the small contact area can handle quite a high
current draw (as a final inspection process, all of our 6 volt batteries
are
subjected to a discharge rate of over 1500 amps) as long as there is a good
connection and the proper cable is used. We discontinued this post because
we wanted people to stop using the automotive-style base; it was never
meant
to be used as such.
The third drawing shows the new Low Profile Terminal (LPT). This is the
new
standard terminal on our T-series batteries. It is actually much better
than the WNT. With the automotive-style base eliminated, there is more
contact area to make people feel a little more secure about the terminal.
Personally, I prefer the LPT over the UT.
As for the vent caps, just ask the distributor to order batteries with
bayonet caps (individual lock-down caps) instead of the mastervent
(gang-type caps). If you cannot get the bayonet caps, just let me know and
I'll gladly send you some.
If you need further assistance, please feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Shedd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:37 PM
To: Jim Le
Subject: Re: Battery terminal dimensions
Hi Jim:
Thanks for the information. I did not receive any drawings with your
email. I am still somewhat confused. I have seen three different styles
of
posts on Trojan batteries. In fact we have some of each which makes
replacement or interchanging difficult.
The first T-145s we received have posts that are roughly 3/4" in diameter
and 1" tall. They are round posts that have flats on two sides with a
5/16"
bolt hole passing horizontally through the post. A Trojan distributor I
talked with called these "UT" posts and that seems to match your
description. This is the type of post I would prefer since they seem to
provide the largest contact area and most positive connection for large
bolt-on lugs.
We ordered an additional 12 T-145s and I thought the teacher had
specified
the UT type post above. What arrived was what I have seen more commonly in
golf carts. The base of the post is shaped like a standard automotive
post.
The positive post is about 1/16" larger in diameter and both the positive
and negative posts are tapered. Sticking out of the top of each post is a
5/16" diameter threaded stud approximately 1/2" long. In most golf cart
applications, including my Club Car, the battery cables are bolted to the
top of the battery posts using this stud. The Trojan distributor told me
that this style post was no longer made, however, the batteries we just
received are coded "C 3". When the teacher checked with the person at
Trojan he ordered the batteries from, they said that they did not have any
of the UT style posts on hand and it would be 3 - 4 weeks delay. We cannot
wait that long. The Tour de Sol competition we are preparing for is in
early May and we have to get the vehicle operational and conduct some
testing and shake-down. Others have advised me not to use the studs on
these posts to attach our cables. The high current draw could melt the
posts due to the small contact area. Thus it seems that our only
possibility is to use automotive style terminals crimped to the 2/0 cables
and clamped to the base of these posts.
For some reason one of the 12 batteries we ordered has a third post
style.
Some have referred to this as a low-profile post. It does not have the
automotive style base, only a 5/16 stud from coming out of the top of the
post. This battery post design seems to be of little use to larger EVs
that
typically have higher current draw. Only a small surface of the battery
terminal lug would be in contact with the battery post. We hope to be able
to exchange it.
I agree that making low-resistance cables is essential. We do not have
capability for soldering lugs onto 2/0 welding cable and have had to rely
on
crimped connections. As you can imagine, high schools do not have the
resources that industry has. We use anti-oxidation paste in the assembly
but it cannot be as good as a quality solder joint. Some have expressed
concern about the solder stiffening the cable.
Another problem we face is with the battery caps. The single cap that
covers all three cells does not allow space across the top of the battery
for battery tie-downs. Due to the orientation in the battery boxes, we
cannot place tie downs along the short edge of the batteries due to the
lifting eyes molded near the battery edges. The caps preclude running a
strap across the top of the battery. We may search for a source of
individual battery caps that will fit.
-Alan
Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
Advisor to Georgia's Electric Vehicle Education Program
(cell) 770-654-0027
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Le
To: 'Alan Shedd'
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: Battery terminal dimensions
Hello Alan:
Please refer to the attached drawing. The Universal post is similar to
an automotive post with a flattened out section on top that can accommodate
a nut and bolt. Note that the positive post is slightly taller and bigger
than the negative post. For high current, I recommend that you do not use
it as an automotive post but rather use the nut-and-bolt connection.
FYI- the post that you're thinking about when you said "5/16 post" is
not called a Universal post. It's called the Low Profile Terminal (LPT)
which basically is a 5/16 threaded stud sticking up from the battery.
Both types of posts can handle high current as long as the connection
is
solid. What usually concerns me is not the posts but how the cable
connector is assembled to the cable. We strongly recommend a crimped and
soldered connection rather than crimped only.
If you need further assistance, please feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Jim Le
Product Application Engineer
800-423-6569 Ext. 301
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Shedd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Battery terminal dimensions
I have helped a high school construct an electric vehicle. It uses
T-145s.
The existing batteries have "L" style posts which are well suited to
the
high current draws. We are increasing the battery capacity by adding
more
T-145s. I understand the new batteries were shipped with Universal
posts.
"L" posts were not available off the shelf, there would have been a
several
week delay so the teacher ordered the Universal posts. I am concerned
that
connecting the wiring to the 5/16 post will not provide good contact
for
currents that can reach 1000 Amps. (500 Amps is typical) Can
automotive-style battery terminals on the cables be used with the
Universal
posts? Are the positive and negative posts different sizes as is the
practice in typical automotive batteries?
Please provide recommendations, dimensions and a sketch if possible.
We
need to complete wiring this coming week.
-Alan
Alan C. Shedd, P.E.
Advisor to Georgia's Electric Vehicle Education Program
(cell) 770-654-0027
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's because the average E-scooter uses motors that are about 60%
efficient and scooters in general are not as efficient as bicycles (it's
a rolling resistance thing).
The 200 watt for 20 mph is an accepted figure by both bicyclists (who
measure such things) and scientist (who accurately measure such things).
The fact that you can't build an efficient vehicle, somehow doesn't
surprise me.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 18:41, garry wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Just thought I would add to your confusion :)
>
> If you look around, instead of reaching for a calculator, you will note that
> the average 100 watt e scooter, which is far lighter than a bike will with a
> carrying limit of 80 kg, carry a child around at a top speed of around 12
> kph NOT mph.
>
> You will also note that the next model up usually has 180 or 200 watt motors
> and these are able to do 20 kph NOT 20 mph.
>
> You will also note that in the real world these never seem to have a range
> exceeding 1 hour or there abouts, but of course they don't have the 76 amp
> hours this one has.
>
> My little 3 wheeler however does and with a speed of a whole 8.6 kph still
> only manages to run for 3 to 4 hours and when the speed is increased to 35
> kph, about your 20 mph figure the range drops to 20 minutes and this was 36
> volts at 60 amp hours tested on the road on a motorbike frame.
>
> The numbers always look good, but on paper I could expect up to 250
> kilometers range on mine, but I just don't get it and I suspect that others
> who have experimented in this scope with similar voltages, amp hour
> batteries and weights of vehicle are a bit amused about claims like this,
> that seem to exceed the reality they know.
>
> I really liked the lifetime guarantee, but then I know I can make a battery
> holder that will last a life time and I could sure make a system that
> allowed you to change it in 1 minute not 5 :)
>
> Good on them I say ...I want a set of those batteries, or do I ...maybe the
> zinc costs a heap :)
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
>
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I get the impression from reading the Corbin motors site that they DID
replace Corbin as CEO, or at least as president. That's what led up to
their bankruptcy.
On Tue, 2003-04-01 at 18:29, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> On 1 Apr 2003 at 15:48, Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
>
> > I must say, I rejoice in the passing of Corbin.
>
> I've seen the screwups, at least from a distance, but I just can't agree
> with this sentiment. Though I'm no business expert, I wonder if it might
> have been possible to remove Corbin as CEO and replace him with someone who
> could more effectively manage the company and hire engineers who could deal
> with the car's problems. I find it hard to believe that they were entirely
> unsolveable.
>
> If a management coup had been conducted, say, six months ago, Corbin Motors
> and the Sparrow might have been saved. Now it's just more grist for
> Detroit's anti-EV mill: "See? That just proves that you can't make a
> business of EVs."
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
You can kill batteries in many ways:
- You can cook it to death from temperatures over 120 deg.F
And, of course, the *best* ways to kill a battery:
- You can let it die gracefully of old age, after a long and
productive life.
Or... about when time to let a well used pack die gracefully, one can
start playing games swapping in other used batteries for the weakest
links, then start bypassing the clunkers... and then after the 10th or
so variation forget to turn the charger voltage down to match, and leave
'em cooking in thermal runaway all night. I couldn't bear to measure the
temperature, but got darn toasty with styrofoam covers still in place
for winter.
Now I have a whole bunch bypassed. I think the time for a new pack has
just been determined for me.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somehow I missed this car when looking at the list of entries before...
A LiIon based CRX should be a fun conversion... I'll be interested in
the technical details (type & size of batteries, etc) and of course the
performance results.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
TdS Report #6: Program Notes: Category PROTOTYPE BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
The "pure electric" contestants, those that run strictly on battery-stored
energy, are the quietest, coolest (in many senses of the word), and, for
your reporter at least, the most interesting in the field. Here is what they
have to say for themselves.
SEVRX
#75
Clarkson Solar Knights
Potsdam, NY
The Clarkson University Solar Knights is a group of students from a variety of
majors constructing a state-of-the-art battery-powered vehicle. Using
Lithium-Ion battery technology, the team has converted a Honda CRX into SEVRX --
a sustainably fueled vehicle.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
