EV Digest 2815
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Batteries
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Any feedback on Helios batteries PRO or CON?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car weighing2000 pounds
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part three)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ampabout (OT)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) NEV donations
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Here's another Miata Conversion
by Jay Donnaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Batteries
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lithium battery monitoring? ...
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Don't get peeved, get nEV'd
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT - Insight Hybrids DONT like rocks in radiator at 100mph
by "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Anderson connector crimp
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Ampabout-jobs
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Batteries
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Fwd from Bob Rice: Sundance Conversion?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Well, nothing says you have to make it a "lead sled". Do you really
> *have* to have Porsche performance? Could you be happy with (say) 96v of
> T-105's (~1000 lbs)? Especially for a first EV, you may want to use
> cheaper batteries that won't cost so much if you abuse them.
Your probable right Lee and as you say "for your first EV" How about 15 8
volter's . Thats some where in between
> Or, do you feel ambitious? We've discussed hybrid battery packs on a
> number of occasions (one pack for performance, one for range). You could
> use 120v of Optima YTs, plus 48v of 6v T-105s. You'd have ~1000 lbs of
> lead for better range while still within the GVWR. You'd then use a
> DC/DC boost converter to step up the 48v to 120v. The boost converter
> would be set up to deliver relatively constant power to the 120v pack,
> so the floodeds don't have to deliver high currents. The Optimas deliver
> the high peak currents, but then get recharged by the floodeds when
> coasting, decellerating, stopped, or driving slow. That's the theory,
> anyway.
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quote from the webpage
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
Home > Golf > Solenoids & Contactors > 48 volt coil
Solenoid, 48 volt, 4 Terminal Long Housing - Item #SL1941
Camdec 48 Volt DC Solenoid, Made in the U.S.A.
Load Specs: 100 amps continuos inductive load, 125 amps continuos resistive
load, 200 amps intermittant inductive load, 250 amps intermittant resistive
load, 500 amp max inrush for .5 seconds
Coil Specs: 28 Volts DC minimum pull in voltage, 1 Volt DC drop out voltage,
160 to 204 ohms coil resistance, .26 amps coil winding current
End quote.
I fail to see the 24 Volt coil.
Are we looking at the same page?
The "product_id=938" is a 24 volt coil.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >>> 24 dollar Solenoid
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only
> >> good for about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic,
> >> or they have changed something inside to suppress arcing.
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
> > My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil.
> > Not the contacts.
>
> It does say "24v coil".
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on the ad they say 34 ah but at another part say 3400mah and they are 2.155
lbs's this seem funny also .
----- Original Message -----
From: "ItalysBadBoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:16 PM
Subject: Any feedback on Helios batteries PRO or CON?
> Hello all,
>
> I was shopping for batteries and was suggested to take a look at Helios
batteries.
http://www.batteries.com/productprofile.asp?appid=267089&prodid=12563&drilld
own=267089&mfgdsc=&mfgcode=ALL&modelno=12+Volts+%2F+40+Ah&groupname=Sealed+L
ead+Acid&groupcode=SLA&SID=5C89FD8C2BAD4D3D9986EF7FF60DB21C
>
> The price is nice, just and the company has been in europe for a long
time. Just hoping someone here has first experience on this company.
>
> Thanks, Allan
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." --- Richard P. Feynman
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Remember the following first rule of disinformation analysis: truth is
specific, lie is vague. Always look for palpable details in reporting and if
the picture is not in focus, there must be reasons for it.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Electro Automotive numbers look good for the battery racks in the 914.
Could someone please comment on this setup. Thank you. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:44 PM
Subject: Batteries
> Yet another post with battery questions, I'm afraid!
>
> Several weeks ago I posted about how I was considering a VW rabbit
> conversion. I'm now quite happy to say that I'm no longer just
> dreaming of building an EV, but I have taken the first step: buying a
> donor car. Friday night, Seth Murray and I drove deep into the Maine
> wilderness to have a look at a Porsche 914 with no engine (how
> perfect!), advertised in Uncle Henry's for $1200. Well, we got there
> and it was perfect! We ended up towing it home that night (for only
> $1000!), Seth with his tow bar and me following as the lights. About
> 1/3 of the way home a cop decided he didn't much like the fact that we
> were towing this thing at night without any form of tail lights or
> brake lights, so he made us leave it in a parking lot
> overnight...AAAAHHH!! So we left it, and drove back to my house, and
> after only about two hours of sleep (but large cups of dark coffee), we
> drove back the next morning to pick it up. Phew, still there! The
> remainder of the trip to my house was uneventful, and I now have a
> Porsche sitting in my driveway!! I'm still pinching myself in
> disbelief.
>
> So now that I have this beauty, I'm being forced to rethink my EV
> plans. No more 120V pack of T-105's on a raptor 600...if this is a
> Porsche, it's gotta have some kick, yet I also would like to be able
> make a 25-mile commute to work 2 or 3 days a week (I assume I could
> charge it there, and it would have a 9-hour workday). So I need some
> battery help.
>
> Performance-wise, I would love a set of 13 group 34 optima YT's and a
> Raptor 1200, though Seth thinks I'd get about 25mi max with these. So
> then I'm wondering how I could do range-wise with the same number of
> 75Ah group 31 YT's. How about biting the bullet and switching to a
> higher-voltage controller (Z1K) with more batteries?
> The third option - to try to use floodies - is almost completely voided
> by the fact that the car comes with manual brakes, to say nothing of
> the fact that it has a max GVWR of 2690lbs (loaded), and the body
> itself weighs around 1400. Not very conducive to another 1400 pounds
> of batteries, as far as I can tell. Granted, I've seen Bob Rice's poor
> rabbit which still goes, but as a sports car, it should stay somewhat
> light.
> I suppose it should also be noted that, where I live, there are more
> hills than I might like for driving an EV, but I'm learning to drive
> efficiently.
>
> Unfortunately, my wallet isn't going to allow me to beta test any of
> those 600Ah Lions, so there goes that option...
>
> I'd love to get some advice from anyone with personal experience or a
> good understanding of the different batteries. Thanks in advance!
>
> -Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
5.5 is almost twice the cd of the fairing I have. Seems to me that my
fairing would just about double the range of that bike. Lawrence
Rhodes......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car
weighing2000 pounds
> About 5.5 hp. This of course assumes that their claim of only 6 sq ft
> of frontal area is correct (seems a tad on the small side, especially
> considering it includes the rider)
>
> On Mon, 2003-05-26 at 19:36, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > Could someone translate this into Horsepower needed to go down the road
at
> > 60mph? A Vetter/Rifle full upright bike fairing needs 3 hp at 60 mph.
> > Lynches recumbent needs 2 hp at 60 mph. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
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> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 9:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: Price for a 120 mile range performance oriented car
weighing
> > 2000 pounds
> >
> >
> > > According to wind tunnel tests (http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/aero.html),
the
> > > Suzukii Hayabusa (the fastest production motorcycle today) has a Cd of
> > .561,
> > > but the frontal area is only .558 sq. m. This translates to a CdA of
.313
> > > sq. m. By comparison, the Honda Insight has a Cd of only .25, but the
> > > frontal area is 1.9 sq. m, so the Cda is .475. Therefore, all other
> > things
> > > being equal, a Hayabusa can get down the road with less energy than an
> > > Insight.
> > >
> > > The Hayabusa is impractical, of course, because of the discomfort of
> > sitting
> > > in the crouched position needed to get those numbers, and also because
you
> > > have to convince your insurance company that you're riding a 75 mph
> > electric
> > > commuter rather than the 187 mph squid-killer that is a factory
Hayabusa.
> > >
> > > Even lesser bikes are still decent. I don't know what the frontal
area or
> > > Cd of my Helix are, but the Cd is much worse than a sports bike,
> > especially
> > > with me sitting up. However, I know that even with the inefficient
> > > Hondamatic transmission, the Helix hits 72 mph with its 13.2 hp
(roughly
> > > 10kW) engine, and will cruise all day long at 60-65 mph at somewhat
less
> > > than full throttle (headwind notwithstanding.) The Reflex hits even
> > higher
> > > speeds with nearly the same engine, a testament to its better
> > aerodynamics.
> > >
> > > I think any faired motorcycle could make a decently efficient vehicle,
and
> > > with more energy-dense batteries now available, a fairly long range
> > vehicle
> > > as well.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > >From : "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To :
> > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Re: Price for a 120 mile range
> > > >performance oriented car weighing 2000 pounds. Date : Sat, 24 May
> > 2003
> > > >15:04:21 -0500
> > > >
> > > >I did some research on the motorcycle drag question. They are not
quite
> > as
> > > >bad as a barn door.The Build Your Own EV book (p. 138) lists the flat
> > plate
> > > >Cd at 1.94. Toyota Echo is 0.29. A typical motorcycle with fairing
is
> > > >0.5,
> > > >although some internet sites list motorcycle Cd's as low as 0.29
(Yamaha
> > > >YZF1000)
> > > http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcyam/96yamahas.html
> > > and 0.33 (Kawasaki GPZ900R)
> > > http://www.khi.co.jp/mcycle/museum/gpz900r/history/index_e.html
> > > Aerodynamic drag is proportional to Cd and vehicle frontal area.
Small
> > cars
> > > might have a frontal area of 18 sq-ft.(see p 140), while one site
> > specified
> > > 6 sq-ft for high performance production motorcycles.
> > > http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0106_aero/
> > >
> > > Using the typical numbers:
> > >
> > > CdA for small car = 0.29 * 18 = 5.22
> > > CdA for motorcycle = 0.5 * 6 = 3.0
> > >
> > > So car vs. cycle calculations will not scale by one quarter when it
comes
> > to
> > > aerodynamic drag. Proportionally speaking, the cycle will need more
> > > batteries or get less range than the car.
> > >
> > > However, as several others have suggested, using FF and fully
enclosed
> > > passenger compartments will bring drag down to car type levels and
make
> > the
> > > 120 mile electric motorcycle a practical possibility.
> > >
> > > Also see this website for some basic drag coefficient information:
> > > http://www.bgsoflex.com/airdragchart.html
> > >
> > > Mark T.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> > >
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a line of some other 24v selinoids. A little better quality. Thanks
for the advice. I might try one and see what happens. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > 24 dollar Solenoid
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
>
> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only good for
> about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic, or they have
> changed something inside to suppress arcing.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here we go again. Is this like a horn or when more than one Selinoid is
selected does that reduce the voltage to the electromagnet? My controller
has 5 copper brushes that contact a spiral shaft. 5 contactors two coil
spring resistors. The big one is about a foot long(about #6 solid wire).
26 coil resistor and an 8 coil resistor attached to the 3rd or second
contactor depending which way you count. Four contactors connected evenly
on the 26 coil resistor. Lawrence Rhodes..........
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
> My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil. Not the
> contacts.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Theory of Contactor Controllers
>
>
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > > 24 dollar Solenoid
> >
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
> >
> > Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only good for
> > about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic, or they have
> > changed something inside to suppress arcing.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> > Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does this mean I need to use a 16v contactor for 48v system and 24v
contactor for 72v system? I need to do something. I would like to use this
beast to go to the grocery. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >>> 24 dollar Solenoid
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=932
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Hmm, this looks exactly like the can-type relays that are only
> >> good for about 24 volts. Either the spec is overly optimistic,
> >> or they have changed something inside to suppress arcing.
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
> > My guess is: 48 volts is the voltage rating is for the coil.
> > Not the contacts.
>
> It does say "24v coil".
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering what kind of gearing, weight and motor your bike has.
(website?)I am kind of disapointed in my performance with the 400 amp Curtis
and 48v with the A89. It is ok in the hill climbing area but not so great
in acceleration or top speed. Lawrence Rhodes......
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----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: Smoke in your face (was Re: High $ Porsche Conversion part three)
> >objectionable. Driving behind an electric car is quite nice, really; I'm
> >thinking, hey, this guy is not belching smoke in my face.
>
> Ummm, this isn't necessarily true, let me 'splain.
>
> The other night I spent a couple of hours tinkering on Sparky my 48V 1974
> Suzuki GX250, at the Wayland EV juice bar. I had finally received my new
> speedo cable so I was actually able determine what speed I was riding at.
> Although the 4 Hawker GE16P's that made up my test pack were making a
> valliant effort, especially considering that they had spent their life up
to
> this point riding in the back of "White Zombie" trying desperately to hold
> themselves together as they belted out 800 amps in 13 second bursts and
> occasionally witnessed one of their "pack buddies" explode, they were not
> able to get me to my goal of 60mph as the voltage was sagging down to 37
> volts by the time I hit 54mph. The solution was to grab 4 more of these
> same batteries and wire them up in parallel. The batteries themselves
were
> happy to join a new kinder regime and only let out one small spark of
> dissension during the wiring process which hardly bares mentioning after
the
> well documented yet unsuccessfull "Plasma Ball Revolt" a few years ago as
> they tried to free themselves from the evil dictator who was routinely
> torturing them all the while proclaiming to the world that they enjoyed,
> indeed thrived under these conditions. A more leisurely life of
occasionall
> 250+ amp discharges in the open air of a classic motorcycle frame did not
> seem like such a bad gig and they now routinely take me over the 60mph
> threshhold I have been seeking, but I get ahead of myself.
>
> Once the wiring was done John started tempting me with a test run up one
of
> Portlands major surface streets. This would not have been a problem other
> then the fact that I don't yet have any of the twelve volt system wired up
> thus no headlight, brake lights, or blinkers, not to mention the fact that
> the bike has no plates and I have not yet gotten my motorcycle
endorsement.
> John could see the weakeness in my resolve, however, in fact probably knew
> that I had been planning on doing this very thing the whole time anyway
else
> why would I have brought my helmet? I put up a weak fight which he
quickly
> beat down then grabbed his digital camera so he could snap some photos as
he
> rode silently along side me in Blue Meanie. I questioned him about local
> police patrols which he claimed to have no control over besides he said it
> would be fun explaining to the police exactly what we are up to. Now you
> see what kind of a twisted deviant my batteries have been subjected to.
> When questioning what our route should be he suggested that we head East
on
> Glisan which would take us right past the police station. By this time I
> had no will power left, not so much because John was pressing the issue,
but
> because I was dying to try out the new pack so we headed out for a little
EV
> test run. As we turned out of John's street onto Glisan and began to
> accelerate up to speed John pulled up beside me a started snapping photos.
> Before we could get going to fast a red light came up and we chatted as we
> sat there waiting for green. It was getting late in the evening, but
there
> was plenty of traffic out and we where right in the middle of it. The
light
> changed and we were off again. This time there where no more lights
coming
> up for a while so we were able to accelerate up to full speed. Traffic
> settled in at about 50mph and I was right in the middle of it. This was
the
> first time I had been surrounded by traffic like this and with plenty of
> pull left in the motor I was feeling confident. That silly thing that
> happens to all of our faces started to spread across my mine. Man, this
was
> a lot of fun. After riding with traffic for about a half mile I made a
> right hand turn and John followed. We cut through a neighborhood and
headed
> back west towards John's house on Burnside. On Johns side of town
Burnside
> has it's eastbound and westbound lanes split by Portland's electric light
> rail system. As we pulled out a train was coming and for a while all
three
> Ev's where gliding along silently together. We returned to John's house
and
> plugged into his ugly box charger to returned some of the used amp hours.
> The four new batteries had not been excercised for a while, so we knew
they
> would be even stronger on the next run. This time we decided to go even
> further. This time we would go east until we made it to John Tuss's
house.
> This would be a round trip of about 4 miles. It was basically the same
> route as before but John Tuss lived further east then I had take us. This
> time John lead the way. I followed him on Sparky once again enjoying the
> pull of the electric motor and the feeling of being surrounded by traffic
> but having no problem keeping up. We knocked on Tuss's door only to find
> that we had woken him up. No problem he assured us, and came out to enjoy
a
> few minutes worth of chat about the new project and unplug his electric
> truck. We said goodbye and that's when it happened, although I admit he
at
> least gave me warning first. John thought I would enjoy the view and
> apparently the smell of Blue Meanie smoking the tires from a motorcycles
> perspective. As we headed back out on Burnside John let loose with some
of
> the 1200 DCP Raptor's amps that he has available leaving two big black
marks
> on the rode and a cloud of smoke for me to ride through. The smoke filled
> my helmet and my nose, and though I know John has a hard time believing
> this, not everyone enjoys the smell of burnt rubber as much as he does.
So
> next time you are following behind a stinky gas powered ICE just remember
> that if you happen to be following behind John Wayland in Blue Meanie, you
> may be in for just as bad of a smell.
>
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce,
You have just found out about some of the less pleasant aspects of working
for The Home Depot. I just left HD after almost 3 years, and believe you me you
got just a taste. In 30 months I was written up 8 times for things as petty as
taking 5 minutes too long on a break (I was in the mens room with diarrhea).
I don't know if you remember my friend Tom Clark from the LV drags (we were
going thru with the white G-van)? They gave him so much unnecessary stress that
after 1.5 years he had to quit due to his heart condition getting worse.
Anyway, you will find better. I had a hard time giving HD up, I truely loved my job
and my customers, but I know for sure that I will live longer and be happier
back in my own business or working elsewhere in the private sector. Good luck
looking, and regards. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Major EV grins from the under 10 set. This NEV was donated by Ford to CYO
Camp Mc Gucken. They have a few Golfcarts but this is the new toy. The
camp is on Bohemian Hwy. just a mile outside Freestone CA. Our church goes
on retreat there every Memorial Day Weekend. My son has as big a grin as
I've ever seen on him. Seems there are a lot of donations comming from
Ford. Lawrence Rhodes.....
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/DonEV/MVC-068S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/DonEV/MVC-069S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/DonEV/MVC-070S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/DonEV/MVC-071S.JPG
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This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
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Bill from Santa Barbara has been working on his 1990 Miata project for a
several years now, the freshly updated website gives a components list, but
no costs. He's now running 13 new (blue top?) D31M 75AH Optimas, and his
speed peaks at 96 MPH with a Curtis model 1231C-8601 and an Advanced
FB-4001A in the 2760 lb car.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Composite_Aircraft_Accessories/elec
tric.htm
Jay Donnaway
Atlanta
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of The Levine Family
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 2:30 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Miata Conversion
>
>
> <<I haven't seen a Miata EV conversion. But since just about anything can
> be converted, I don't see why he can't do it.>>
>
> Yup: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/174.html He doesn't list conversion
> cost.
>
> <<Since they are still a relatively expensive car, it probably pays to do
> a fairly nice conversion. Is he willing to spend the $5k to $10k it
> would cost?>>
>
> Does it have to be brand new? The older versions with pop-up headlights
> run
> $4K or less in good running condition.
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> Your probable right Lee and as you say "for your first EV" How about 15 8
> volter's . Thats some where in between
8 volt batteries give you the worst of both worlds. Even LESS
performance than 6 volt batteries and almost as much weight (950 lbs
give or take).
Coupled to even a 600 amp controller they will die quickly. To get any
kind of life from these batteries maximum draw should be limited to less
than 300 amps. After a year or two you'd be lucky to get 200 amps.
Range when new will be about 35 miles, after a year or two it will be
less than 20 miles (assuming he keeps the current down below 300 amps).
Finally a set of 15 batteries will cost you as much or more as a set of
20 6v batts.
You end up with a lead sled with glacial performance and batteries that
die quickly even if you treat them right (two to three years max).
Hook them up to a 600 amp controller and frequently bury your foot and
you'll be lucky to get a year out of them.
For an 8V performance example consider my truck.15 8 volt batteries that
were somewhere near the middle of their life and a total weight of about
3200 lbs.
0-60 took about a minute and a half. This is while keeping pack voltage
above 105 volts (about 250 amp draw)
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At 10:03 PM 5/27/2003 -0700, Gary Graunke wrote:
It seems that to initialize an entire pack, we will need to make
some
special equipment, or get the BMS working and use regular charging.
I'm planning on using my BMS. PC Boards come in tomorrow.
For
discharge cycles, I may have to drive around the block for 3 hours and 20
minutes. ;-) Seriously, after all the comments, I'm leaning toward
building
a massive homebew load, as several folks have done.
Hmm, maybe just 10 or 20 standard 120v lightbulbs - being run at 160v or
so.
Wonder how long they would last? :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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There are many newbies that want a 'new' EV, even though the
EV community knows that used conversion EVs are just fine.
Since there are no production EVs being made and the only
production Electrics being made are nEVs, The EV community
may want to use these nEVs to:
-continue support for and encourage new installations of
public EV charging stations
-public EV awareness and continued development of EV
components
Some may think that would be difficult as current nEVs
recharge off 120 VAC 20 amp outlets, and the current public
EV charging are mostly inductive, with some 220 VAC AVCON
conductive.
I propose that we should work with local AQMDs (Air
Quality Management Districts) to free up some their funding
for retrofitting LPI (large paddle inductive) charging heads
to conductive that include 120 VAC 20 amp outlets. (ie:
http://www.baaqmd.gov/planning/plntrns/charge.htm )
There aren't currently any UL approved 'drop in' boxes at
this time (a business opportunity for someone). The (now
unavailable) evi mcs-100, had a 14-50 and a 5-20 outlet.
The 14-50 needed a signal between the neutral and ground to
enable power (for safety).
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/factsheets/chargingresource.pdf
Perhaps an AVCON head could be installed with a standard
duplex 5-20 receptacle with built in gfi could be mounted
below it. There are weather tight enclosures that could be
used, linked on http://geocities.com/evchargng/
I have found that because nEVs are so inexpensive to
purchase, few nEV drivers are willing to buy and install 220
VAC chargers on-board and purchase the AVCON adaptor (costs
more than the original nEV).
But if the EV community continued to have public EV charging
spots used and funded, that would sustain our EV cause.
If we look at the CARB wording,
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/zev2003/rationale.pdf
CARB still considers nEVs to be a resource for emission
reduction (at least until 2009).
While SULEV ICE and hybrids are threatening this,
(unnecessary CARB fast fueling/recharging wording impedes EV
development. To recharge to 80 SOC requires 6 times the AC
power and expensive charging equipment, yet no where is it
stated who will pay for this power or equipment : unfair
competition with ICE. Automaker manipulation of CARB) ...
EVs in what ever form, need to be around for when the
automakers do an about-face again. After they spend all
their federal dollars, the automakers will publicly state
fcvs "can't be done".
EVs, nEVs, and all other grid rechargeable EVs should be
still around to continue to prove that EVs are a viable
transportation option.
If nEVs were to plug-in where the unused inductive heads
were, the public would still see public EV charging being used,
and EVs on the road.
Its about the best we are going to get, without production
EVs being made. Gone are the days of the RAV4 EVs, etc.
Watt do you think?
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
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Well, I know this should be posted to some Insight group, (sorry )
but I am not sure it happened when I ran "Lil Sipper" up over 100
per' briefly coming home
on some nice roiling hills on I-5 south bound, north of Everett WA.
BUT arriving at work yesterday, green fluid was leaking out from the
front of her. I drove post-haste to the
local Honda Dealer. Hoping it was warrantee work. He called back
bout 1 pm to say
that a rock had hit the radiator. In chatting with service folks, I
suggested a screen. He even volunteered that Insights are prone to
picking up rocks. ( wish I had had THAT conversation on my pocket
digital recorder )j
Any way... any one else out there heard of such a thing. How about
a class action against Honda of America, for all the $600. radiator
replacement jobs ?? ( Just kidding )
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
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Always CRIMP (and then solder if it makes you feel good). Soldering ONLY can
cause bad accidents while accelerating at full power. I have been in one,
(burned up the cheese wedge back in the early 80's). I also solder my crimp
connections and use a resistance solder technique with a 5V 100A transformer
(converted from a microwave oven transformer) and carbon arc rod. A very
good pinpoint heat source and doesn't fry the insulation like a propane
torch. Check the EMF Company 1-800-621-0080. The catalog shows a LUMA no.
551 model which I duplicated (cause I'm cheap) and ordered their carbon rod
and holder 1/4" rod no.1-4 and holder no. 19-31
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Anderson connector question
> Use the 350 amp connector and solder to the pins instead of crimping to
> them. The pins can be soldered to any gauge wire.
>
> Be careful of the current ratings. The connector ratings are for
continuous
> loads. EV currents have both peak and continuous numbers that are quite
> different.
>
> The NEC chart at
>
http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=nec/unformatted/poster&type=u&title
> =Commercial/Industrial%20Wiring%20and%20Raceway%20Chart lists 1/0 wire for
> 120 amp continuous loads with a 150 amp breaker. Your wire is about half
to
> one third the size called out by the NEC specification.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:51 PM
> Subject: Anderson connector question
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I've seen Anderson SBX350 connectors called out in a number of
> > designs. But most of those designs are for DC systems that must pull a
> > good bit more than 350 Amps. Do these connectors do well above rated
> > current? The reason I ask is that I'm doing an AC system, so battery
> > current is limited at 288 Amps. I'd like to use 1/0 cable (even that is
> > probably excessive), but only the SBX175 lists 1/0 as a valid wire
> > size. Should I go with SBX350 and figure out how to crimp to a 1/0
cable,
> > or go with SBX175 and run the connector at more than spec?
> >
> > I won't hold anyone liable for an answer, just looking for some
guidance.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
> >
>
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Check specifically Bechtel.com and generally EPCjobs.com. They are looking
for 5000 engineers (powerplants-power electronics,communications) to rebuild
Iraq do to the government money recently allocated.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lesley Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Ampabout
> Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > It is very likely that I am terminated. Absences within the
> > first 90 days is not tolerated and are terminated at Home
> > Depot.
>
> WHAT?!!! That would be unfair dismissal here (I hope). Makes me
> glad I don't live in the USA.
>
> I have my fingers crossed for you, hope you get better soon. And I
> REALLY hope you don't lose your job.
>
> --
> Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
> LRW at clear.net.nz
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/460.html
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/lrw
>
>
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Uncle Henry's striks again - congrats on starting the project! For your
batteries, don't underestimate your needs. Being in Maine, you have cold
temps which will reduce your range a lot if using lead acid. Plan on
heated & insulated boxes. I think that having a carefully insulated box
with a fitted cover is more important than massive thickness of the
insulation. In other words you need to design for say 1" foam from the
beginning rather than stick in 2" chunks on a hit & miss basis where it
fits afterwards. And put some sort of heater mats under the batteries
with a good thermostat for each box, and you should keep most of your
range year 'round. Although you might also need vent fans for the middle
of summer to keep the boxes from building up too much heat.
For your 25 mile drive to work, do you want to add a bit more for when
you want to stop at the store or stop by to visit Seth on the way home?
Or be able to go to work AND the store AND go visiting? If you size it
so that going to work and a few errand uses your 80% DOD then most days
when just go to work will be at 50% DOD which will extend the battery life.
The regen benefits will depend a lot on your driving patterns... the
more stop lights or downhills, the greater the benefit. Keep in mind the
AC system requires you to go to high voltage battery packs - Hawkers or
Eercells maybe? Evercells would deal better with the cold, but add to
the budget.
Ben Apollonio wrote:
On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 11:04 AM, damon henry wrote:
> So then I'm wondering how I could do range-wise with the same number
> of 75Ah group 31 YT's.
Range would certainly be better (more battery weight). But are these
batteries actually available? And has anyone tried them yet?
They are definitely available. At least one Ev'r has bought a new
pack of these after having built his EV around the original
prototypes. Unfortunately for him the size changed and he needed new
battery boxes. But that's not an issue in this case.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206.html
Yes, and I'm pretty sure I saw them for sale online somewhere. But
could these give me the range I need? I would be driving a heavier
vehicle (probably 2500-3000lbs, unfortunately), but I'd also have 3 more
batteries than he does (156V for me, 120V for him). Again, my commute
is 25 miles, so I'd kind of like to have a range of 30 so I can be
somewhat kind to my batteries and not worry about reversing cells. It
almost doesn't sound like the extra 20Ah will be enough if Lee's right,
but then again, that Fiat goes 50 miles. And of course, if I were
trying to go far, I wouldn't be gunning it after every stop sign.
I've also started looking over some of Victor's AC stuff, especially
since regen might help assist me with my manual brakes (no, I won't rely
on it!). How much more range would AC give me? There are a couple
horribly-placed stop signs on the way. I was kind of hoping to grab one
of those pre-made adaptor plates for the ADC 9", but if the benefits of
AC are good enough, maybe it's worth the extra effort and money.
thanks
Ben
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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Begin Forwarded Message:
Has anybody else done a 92 Plymouth Sundance two door hatchback to
electric? Any thoughts, ideas, I have a chance to pick up one cheep,
clean
interior flaking crappy Chrysler paint job, no dings or dents. Runs,
now, as
a gas, haz a 4 cylinder engine an' 5 speed, intact, nice clean body
and it
doesn't LEAK, like the Rabbits I have owned, dry floors, as you in the
Least
Coast know it has rained consistantly MOST of the last month. Good
weather
to test the seaworthyness of doner cars.Hmmm? If I don't hafta bail
out the
@#$% car, it looks promising!
I don't know anything about Plymouths,like anything bolt on for
upgrades, etc, weights, and all that. Anybody?
Thanks
Bob
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
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Why not a 120V 140A/h Saft ni-cad pack ?
Though, it would be 800 pound for complete (nickel plated connection,
central watering system+box)
20 X 6V modules.
You will have largely the range you need, good life cycle and Saft
guarantied 270A constant/
680A (10sec) current for fun driving.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Apollonio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 5:44 AM
Subject: Batteries
> Yet another post with battery questions, I'm afraid!
>
> Several weeks ago I posted about how I was considering a VW rabbit
> conversion. I'm now quite happy to say that I'm no longer just
> dreaming of building an EV, but I have taken the first step: buying a
> donor car. Friday night, Seth Murray and I drove deep into the Maine
> wilderness to have a look at a Porsche 914 with no engine (how
> perfect!), advertised in Uncle Henry's for $1200. Well, we got there
> and it was perfect! We ended up towing it home that night (for only
> $1000!), Seth with his tow bar and me following as the lights. About
> 1/3 of the way home a cop decided he didn't much like the fact that we
> were towing this thing at night without any form of tail lights or
> brake lights, so he made us leave it in a parking lot
> overnight...AAAAHHH!! So we left it, and drove back to my house, and
> after only about two hours of sleep (but large cups of dark coffee), we
> drove back the next morning to pick it up. Phew, still there! The
> remainder of the trip to my house was uneventful, and I now have a
> Porsche sitting in my driveway!! I'm still pinching myself in
> disbelief.
>
> So now that I have this beauty, I'm being forced to rethink my EV
> plans. No more 120V pack of T-105's on a raptor 600...if this is a
> Porsche, it's gotta have some kick, yet I also would like to be able
> make a 25-mile commute to work 2 or 3 days a week (I assume I could
> charge it there, and it would have a 9-hour workday). So I need some
> battery help.
>
> Performance-wise, I would love a set of 13 group 34 optima YT's and a
> Raptor 1200, though Seth thinks I'd get about 25mi max with these. So
> then I'm wondering how I could do range-wise with the same number of
> 75Ah group 31 YT's. How about biting the bullet and switching to a
> higher-voltage controller (Z1K) with more batteries?
> The third option - to try to use floodies - is almost completely voided
> by the fact that the car comes with manual brakes, to say nothing of
> the fact that it has a max GVWR of 2690lbs (loaded), and the body
> itself weighs around 1400. Not very conducive to another 1400 pounds
> of batteries, as far as I can tell. Granted, I've seen Bob Rice's poor
> rabbit which still goes, but as a sports car, it should stay somewhat
> light.
> I suppose it should also be noted that, where I live, there are more
> hills than I might like for driving an EV, but I'm learning to drive
> efficiently.
>
> Unfortunately, my wallet isn't going to allow me to beta test any of
> those 600Ah Lions, so there goes that option...
>
> I'd love to get some advice from anyone with personal experience or a
> good understanding of the different batteries. Thanks in advance!
>
> -Ben
>
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