EV Digest 4052
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AC motor Q's
by Edward Kellogg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) A bit OT - Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper
for the CHP
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: nicad question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Specs on SW192 contactors
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: nicad question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Better Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: nicad question
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EDTA Conference Article is online
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re Nicad question - buddy pair
by "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Magnecharger replacing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Flywheel clocking - Melaxis sensor from Digi-key
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Hose for vacuum system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: OCC to build world's first Lithium-powered Chopper for the CHP
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Better Mileage Metric? Re: Some basic questions
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Link to Robert Lange's Chopper
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: regen...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT re: EV taglines
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Hose for vacuum system
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It assumes a regular gas car, you'd need refinement for hybrids and
diesels, so it sounds like you got the basic idea. Gas mileage has
more to do with the size, weight, and aero of a car than the engine
size -- you'll notice different engines don't change the gas mileage
much. Indeed, sometimes the bigger engine will get better gas
mileage. So that's a long winded way to say gas mileage is pretty
good for estimating how efficient a car is. Kudos to Bill Dube for
thinking up this elegant metric.
YMMV, of course you'll find some people that get better range, and
some worse, than this predicts. Just like gas cars, some people get
better, and some way less, than the EPA estimates. This too can be
good info, if you get well below EPA estimates your commute (stop and
go) or style of driving (binary gas pedal, on or off) will tend to
make an electric car have less range, too, but the metric reflects
this via the lower gas mileage numbers.
I can think of one exception: If you only drive the gasser a mile at
a time, it'll get really lousy gas mileage because it doesn't get
warmed up for most of its driving. Then the EV would have better
range than the metric predicts.
--- Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > Just parroting others here, for range figure about 300 Wh per
> Optima
> > or Orbital, and between 150 Wh/mile (optimistic) and 250 Wh/mile
> > (more realistic). I like Bill Dube's metric, take the car's
> original
> > gas mileage and figure that's about how many miles about 1000
> pounds
> > of lead acid batteries will take you. YMMV. :)
>
> So, a 20 mpg car would go 20 miles per 1000 lbs of lead?
> A smaller 35 mpg car might go 35 miles?
> An Insight (70 mpg) may travel 70 miles?
> .oO( or is the 70mpg insight a 'special case' ? )
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Have you seen this one? I looked into it for a competition, but we are
limited to 36 V and this is 48 V. I have heard, but not confirmed, that
this is the place that does the windings for AC propulsion.
"The Powerhouse"
3-Phase AC Drive System for Golf Cars and N.E.V.'s
18 Horsepower and 81 Foot Pounds of Torque
6000 RPM Motor
25 MPH without Gear Change
UP TO 100 MILES PER CHARGE
Full Regenerative Braking to zero speed
Higher Torque, Lower Power Consumption
Fits Club-Car, EZ-Go, Yamaha, Columbia Par-Car,
Or any Graziano or Dana-Spicer Differential
No brushes or commutator
Golf/Street mode switch
Zero to 20 MPH in under 5 seconds! Hi Performance Golf Cars
http://www.hiperformancegolfcars.com/images/Image1.gif
Address:
1551 So. Vineyard Avenue
City:
Ontario
State: California
Zip: 91761
Country: USA
Phone:
909-923-1973
Fax:
Toll Free: 800-340-7107
Ed Kellogg
e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chat… eckellogg138 (AIM)
ICQ 243051412
Sit vis vobiscum.
On Jan 23, 2005, at 12:43 PM, David Chapman wrote:
Good post Richard, I would also value a refresher. I am looking to
source an AC motor myself and could use some input. I am trying to
find an AC motor rated for 1.25-1.5 HP continuous, approx 1700 rpm,
can be (probably should be) open framed for weight and for cooling but
should be somewhat moisture resistant, and as efficient and small as
posible. Also cost is a factor. I know I need to strike a balance
between size, efficiency, and cost requirements. I could use some help
narrowing down the path somewhat. It can be multi phase if that would
help on the size/efficiency. And from a cost standpoint it will pretty
much have to be something already commercially produced and not "hi
tech" or limited production. There are just so many motor types
(induction, wound rotor, pm?) out there that its hard for me to
seperate the forrest from the trees.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
<Snipped for brevity>
I'm trying to recall Lee's posts about rewinding
AC motors, and how much power you can actually get
out of them.
If I'm remembering correctly, by reconnecting the 4 sets
of stator windings in parallel rather than series, I can
drop the voltage requirements by a factor of 4.
So a 600V inverter becomes a slightly safer 150V inverter...
Obviously the current goes up by a factor of 4.
By running the motor twice as fast, ( 2900 rpm, from an
inverter output of 100 Hz 3 phase), I can get 2x nameplate
HP out. So now I'm at 15 HP output - getting pretty interesting!
I seem to remember Lee having another trick to double
the power again, but can't remember what it is.
Can you remind me Lee?
Thanks!
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All this talk of choppers for the CHP, and I kept asking myself: How are
they going to get the dang thing to fly? It'll be so *heavy*, even with
the best batteries in it...! And what's this about the front wheel
flopping over? Helicopters could use rails to land on instead, couldn't
they...?
And what's all this talk about motorcycles? Hasn't the crew making this
thing ever made a helicopter...this really doesn't sound like a good
idea... And then I started getting excited about the idea of a small
'motorcycle sized' recumbent-seat helicopter, and maybe if motorcycle
enthusiasts could make one, I could too...and then it dawned on me...
D'OH!
-Dee (who finally has realized that "Chopper" also refers to a type of
motorcycle. :) )
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:44 PM -0800 on 1/23/05, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Have you stepped back to notice that choppers look
more like a feet forward design (feet forward, low cg,
low seat, semi recumbant position, and a long
wheelbase) than a regular bike? all the bike needs is
a fairing.
And a seat back. And probably a secondary steering head. Every
extreme chopper I've ever seen has the rider hunched way over to
reach the bars way out in front. (Ghawd, that's gotta hurt to ride!).
Part of the point of the FF layout is to reduce stress on the upper
body and increase rider comfort. According to the guys who've built
FFs, the seat back locating the rider helps both the ergonomics and
the safety (you stay inside the vehicle in a crash rather than flying
through the air).
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is just why I scaled down my ambitious NiCad project to just one
string. Rich Rudman warned me sternly. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:35 PM
Subject: nicad question
Does anyone know if there are any problems with buddy pairing flooded
nicads
like the bb600?
Thanks
Jerald
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you go
to the EV Album you will notice that most bike conversions end up putting
batteries up on top of others due to space limitations increasing the
height of the center of gravity. By building a custom frame you can put
all the batteries low. you can also have a very low seating position. You
can locate the neck in an entirely new location instead of at the front of
the frame. That's all I will tell you on that one for now. I've already
built the frame. I will show it when it's on the road. Sometimes you have
to look at things from a totally alien perspective.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
While you are in the album look at my Lectra eLECTRAfied. This frame is a
good starting point. I got 6 Delphi Batteries on edge. There may be a few
of the Lectra frames out there. 35 were given away and EMB sold gliders.
I'm not sure where they are now. Zap bought the company. I'm planing on
building my new bike around the battery box.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
The SW-192 is only rated 96vdc, 150a continuous, 500a for 1 minute. You
can easily exceed this with a Zilla, and would destroy it if you tried
to break 180vdc with it. You might be able to use it if you turned the
Zilla current way down, and had another contactor for emergency
disconnects.
Hum.. thats actually not that bad. The reversing set never has to break
the pack voltage, and the Zilla does not switch the contactors under
load. They only has to be rated to carry the motor loop current.
I'll probably still play it safe and purchase a set from the SW-2xx
series...
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You better tell Solectria not to parallel them because those early
(wet) NiCad Forces that are still running after 10 years that way. So
someone hurry and tell them that they did it wrong ;-)
2 40Ah strings in parallel. Still running at UMass last I heard, that
was 2003 but they were 1993(ish) cars.
Seth
On Jan 23, 2005, at 11:50 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
If there is a reason to not charge "flooded" NiCads in parallel,
please let
me know.
The reason that cylindrical NiCads can't be recharged in parallel does
not
apply to flooded cells because the behave differently at end of charge.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: nicad question
<< Does anyone know if there are any problems with buddy pairing
flooded
nicads
like the bb600? >>
You don't want to charge nicads in parallel, but supposedly you can
discharge
them that way.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David, Ryan and All,
His metric isn't very good for so many
reasons like engine size, eff, drag, speed, ect that
anyone who cares about range would change.
Better would be range according to % of batt
weight,
30% batt weight = 20-40 mile,
40% = 30-60 miles
50% = 45-100 miles
with the lower mileage for non optimzed EV's,
pickups and the upper for optimised, more aero EV's.
-15% for AGM's in most cases vs golf cart batts
except in heavily loaded, short range ones where they
are about = though faster.
Driving 20% slower gets you about 30-50% more
range above 45 mph.
Thus from a cost, range, performance standpoint
a light, aero, optimized EV is going to be a much
better idea.
Needless to say, YMMV!!!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It assumes a regular gas car, you'd need refinement
> for hybrids and
> diesels, so it sounds like you got the basic idea.
> Gas mileage has
> more to do with the size, weight, and aero of a car
> than the engine
> size -- you'll notice different engines don't change
> the gas mileage
> much. Indeed, sometimes the bigger engine will get
> better gas
> mileage. So that's a long winded way to say gas
> mileage is pretty
> good for estimating how efficient a car is. Kudos to
> Bill Dube for
> thinking up this elegant metric.
>
> YMMV, of course you'll find some people that get
> better range, and
> some worse, than this predicts. Just like gas cars,
> some people get
> better, and some way less, than the EPA estimates.
> This too can be
> good info, if you get well below EPA estimates your
> commute (stop and
> go) or style of driving (binary gas pedal, on or
> off) will tend to
> make an electric car have less range, too, but the
> metric reflects
> this via the lower gas mileage numbers.
>
> I can think of one exception: If you only drive the
> gasser a mile at
> a time, it'll get really lousy gas mileage because
> it doesn't get
> warmed up for most of its driving. Then the EV would
> have better
> range than the metric predicts.
>
> --- Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > David Dymaxion wrote:
> > > Just parroting others here, for range figure
> about 300 Wh per
> > Optima
> > > or Orbital, and between 150 Wh/mile (optimistic)
> and 250 Wh/mile
> > > (more realistic). I like Bill Dube's metric,
> take the car's
> > original
> > > gas mileage and figure that's about how many
> miles about 1000
> > pounds
> > > of lead acid batteries will take you. YMMV. :)
> >
> > So, a 20 mpg car would go 20 miles per 1000 lbs of
> lead?
> > A smaller 35 mpg car might go 35 miles?
> > An Insight (70 mpg) may travel 70 miles?
> > .oO( or is the 70mpg insight a 'special case' ? )
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn
> more.
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>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
You can charge, discharge strings in
parallel as long as you disconnect them when sitting
between charging, discharging and they are used
together for flooded ni-cads.
I'd never buddy pair them. That would lead
to unbalancing the pack.
The difference in state of charge between
1.6 and 1.8vpc is almost nil. I try to keep all cells
below 1.7vpc, usually 1.65vpc though if an unbalanced
string that's hard. Mine tend to stay very close to
each other.
Hope this helps,
jerry dycus
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <<< If there is a reason to not charge "flooded"
> NiCads in parallel, please let
> me know.
>
> The reason that cylindrical NiCads can't be
> recharged in parallel does not
> apply to flooded cells because the behave
> differently at end of charge. >>>
>
> The charging info I downloaded from SAFT doesn't
> mention paralleled cells at
> all, so that would make me question its safety to
> the pak; another thing is SOC
> independent of voltage -- would you be safe with a
> budyy pair getting 1.8V/cell
> when one of them should be no more than 1.6V/cell? I
> don't know if it is
> damaging, but imbalanced SOC is usually not a
> desired state, in general.
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folk's, here's my report for those interested.
> Hey Mark,
>
> The article is online at:
> http://visforvoltage.com/main
>
> The direct link is:
> http://tinyurl.com/3n8wn
>
> Hope you like it! I was able to post the piece in it's entirety with a
> number of the photos inline.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Melaxis makes a "Hall efffect cam sensor" specifically for automotive use.
Details at : http://www.melexis.com/prodmain.asp?Family=MLX90217
Digi-key sells them for $6.54 each. I just ordered one - don't have it yet.
It's a TO-92 flat package.
It does require a small fixed magnet behind the sensor, but should be easy
to mount and use. I plan to machine two notches at the rim of the
flywheel. It will also work off of gear teeth ( my ring gear is gone)
I'll use an LM 231 to convert the pulse train to a linear voltage, and a LM
3914 display driver to drive a 10 LED vertical display. ( with a red LED at
6000RPM). The ICE car didn't have a tach.
All three chips work off a single-sided 12-14 V supply ( aux 12 V) so that's
easy.
Phil (still working on the Echo) Marino
Rochester, NY
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Flywheel clocking
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:56:11 +1100
At 05:55 PM 23/01/05 -0800, you wrote:
does anyone have opinions on using either an optical
or magnetic sensor for clocking a flywheel? I have an
optical setup almost complete but am having second
thoughts. the bell housing is pretty much sealed. am I
over looking something that may cause a problem in the
future? does anyone have a suggestion of the best
adhesive to attach the mirror or magnet to the fly
wheel? I'm currently think of using JBweld.....
Thanks,
BCB
Hi Brian (and all)
What the [EMAIL PROTECTED] is all this about magnets and gluing bits on that people
keep bringing up. Have your flywheel machined with some slots in it, buy an
industrial proximity switch and hook it up.
Rally cars use them to count the inside ends of wheelstuds, they can take
the speed and the hammering from that. High pressure immersion, fully
sealed.
They put out full voltage pulses, no amplifiers needed.
You can easily get aluminium detecting units (like I have) if you are going
clutchless with an aluminium adaptor. Mine is a normal steel type that
works with aluminium at half the distance.
There are dozens of manufacturers, Omron, Allen-Bradley, Peperl and Fuchs,
Sick and many more. The only reason NOT to use one if you are using an
unmodified flywheel and are counting the ring gear teeth, since the target
minimum width and space minimum width come into it.
I admit I'm biased - working with industrial equipment on a daily basis
makes me expect reliability, simplicity and ease of use on things that I
get to specify. You can do it cheaper, depending on what your time is
worth, or if you are willing to compromise on potential reliability.
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>If there is a reason to not charge "flooded" NiCads in parallel, please let
>me know.
I ran one test on four buddy pairs in a string. They seem to divide both
charge and discharge current very evenly. However I only charged to 1.45
volts per cell and charge/discharge current were both under 10 amps. So I
don’t know if there are any problems at higher current or at end of charge.
Jerald
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alan Batie wrote:
>
> I'm curious if the PFC-30 could replace the magnecharger in the S10 EV's, or
> if
> at the very least, you can chop off the paddle and replace it with a plug of
> the
> appropriate type? If I have to use the magnecharger, the only place I'd be
> able
> to charge it would be at home.
The Magnecharger paddle is really half of a transformer. The other half
is in the receptacle in the car. There is no practical way to modify one
to use a conductive plug.
You can use a PFC-30 as a separate charger, but would have to wire it
directly to the batteries. Also, your EV's "fuel gauge" might not
correctly indicate the charge put in by the PFC-30. Many of the auto
company produced EVs have thoroughly tangled the charger, controller,
batteries, and motor systems all together. These systems behave
unpredictably to "foreign" systems being added.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lock Hughes wrote:
> Some on the EVDL might see this following tag as OT, and others may
> see it as very germane to EV development... I don't know: I miss
> that old tagging business. It'd be fun and useful (in an EV promo
> sorta way) to have some EV tags...
So do I. I used to use Prodigy, and their Mail Manager included this
feature. I had a dozen or so different taglines, and it randomly
selected one for each email. Or, I could pick on that was more
appropriate for the subject.
I think taglines can provide little nuggets of information; a useful
tip, thoughtful commentary, humor, relevant quotes, etc. I'd certainly
use a feature that let me insert different ones in each email again!
But, if mine bother people, I can take mine out.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this sounds like the best option. I can just use the
teeth on the flywheel rather than taking the
controller, motor and then the fly wheel off to drill
holes for magnets. I believe I may already have a hall
effect sensor laying around somewhere. thank you for
your input!
BCB
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Melaxis makes a "Hall efffect cam sensor"
> specifically for automotive use.
> Details at :
> http://www.melexis.com/prodmain.asp?Family=MLX90217
>
> Digi-key sells them for $6.54 each. I just ordered
> one - don't have it yet.
> It's a TO-92 flat package.
>
> It does require a small fixed magnet behind the
> sensor, but should be easy
> to mount and use. I plan to machine two notches at
> the rim of the
> flywheel. It will also work off of gear teeth ( my
> ring gear is gone)
>
> I'll use an LM 231 to convert the pulse train to a
> linear voltage, and a LM
> 3914 display driver to drive a 10 LED vertical
> display. ( with a red LED at
> 6000RPM). The ICE car didn't have a tach.
>
> All three chips work off a single-sided 12-14 V
> supply ( aux 12 V) so that's
> easy.
>
> Phil (still working on the Echo) Marino
> Rochester, NY
>
> >From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: Flywheel clocking
> >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:56:11 +1100
> >
> >At 05:55 PM 23/01/05 -0800, you wrote:
> >>does anyone have opinions on using either an
> optical
> >>or magnetic sensor for clocking a flywheel? I have
> an
> >>optical setup almost complete but am having second
> >>thoughts. the bell housing is pretty much sealed.
> am I
> >>over looking something that may cause a problem in
> the
> >>future? does anyone have a suggestion of the best
> >>adhesive to attach the mirror or magnet to the fly
> >>wheel? I'm currently think of using JBweld.....
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>BCB
> >Hi Brian (and all)
> >
> >What the [EMAIL PROTECTED] is all this about magnets and gluing
> bits on that people
> >keep bringing up. Have your flywheel machined with
> some slots in it, buy an
> >industrial proximity switch and hook it up.
> >
> >Rally cars use them to count the inside ends of
> wheelstuds, they can take
> >the speed and the hammering from that. High
> pressure immersion, fully
> >sealed.
> >
> >They put out full voltage pulses, no amplifiers
> needed.
> >
> >You can easily get aluminium detecting units (like
> I have) if you are going
> >clutchless with an aluminium adaptor. Mine is a
> normal steel type that
> >works with aluminium at half the distance.
> >
> >There are dozens of manufacturers, Omron,
> Allen-Bradley, Peperl and Fuchs,
> >Sick and many more. The only reason NOT to use one
> if you are using an
> >unmodified flywheel and are counting the ring gear
> teeth, since the target
> >minimum width and space minimum width come into it.
> >
> >I admit I'm biased - working with industrial
> equipment on a daily basis
> >makes me expect reliability, simplicity and ease of
> use on things that I
> >get to specify. You can do it cheaper, depending on
> what your time is
> >worth, or if you are willing to compromise on
> potential reliability.
> >
> >James Massey
> >Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
> virus scan from McAfee®
> Security.
>
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
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I just tested my vacuum system yesterday it works great, but the vacuum pump
cycles too long. I am pretty sure the vacuum pump is having to work harder,
because I am using heater hose to connect from the pump (in the back of the
car) up to the brake booster and it collapses a little bit. Can anyone
suggest a more rigid hose that will not collapse? Maybe a hose that I can
heat bend to form it around corners?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Lock Hughes wrote:
Some on the EVDL might see this following tag as OT, and others may
see it as very germane to EV development... I don't know: I miss
that old tagging business. It'd be fun and useful (in an EV promo
sorta way) to have some EV tags...
Mozilla Thunderbird has this feature - it's an extension called Tagzilla
http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/extensions/#tagzilla
I found migrating away from IE to Thunderbird was pretty easy, too.
Great filtering, message handling, etc.
-Dee (who does not work for Mozilla but wishes she did. ;) )
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Gadget stated:
One of the things that I learned while building the
BIG chopper is how to correct this problem. we built
the neck with less rake than the forks themselves.
this stops the "flopping" problem.
I guess you dated me here. All my experiences have been in older days with
raked necks. I admit that by using custom triple trees that kick out the
bottom tree more you reduce trail and therefore reduce the flop. I haven't
riden one of the modern choppers but I kave a real hard time imaginining
them taking on a crotch rocket through the twisties. I will stand by my
statement that style is of more importance than handling. Form over
function. I see4 nothing wrong with this as I view choppers as an american
art form just as hot rods are. We in the US is the world's leader in mobile
art. I know you are very aware of "Burning Man" being a participant.
He further stated:
Have you stepped back to notice that choppers look
more like a feet forward design (feet forward, low cg,
low seat, semi recumbant position, and a long
wheelbase) than a regular bike? all the bike needs is
a fairing.
I am aware of this look. I totally agree that the longer wheelbase does
afford more room for batteries down low as well as the seating position. In
my opinion one of the most beautiful small chopped motorcycles presently is
one built by Robert Lange of California. Here is a picture from the Megawatt
Motorworks site. http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/photos.asp What makes
this bike special is that Robert was able to think outside the traditional
tube frame and still have the look of a chopper.
Roderick Wilde
"Heck with thinking outside the box, Rather think within the bounds of a
limitless universe."
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--- Begin Message ---
Plastic pneumatic pipe? The industrial kind. I think it's made of
nylon and is semi-rigid. It seems pretty close to the original
"manifold to brake booster" connection.
Regards
Evan.
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:19:52 -0800, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just tested my vacuum system yesterday it works great, but the vacuum pump
> cycles too long. I am pretty sure the vacuum pump is having to work harder,
> because I am using heater hose to connect from the pump (in the back of the
> car) up to the brake booster and it collapses a little bit. Can anyone
> suggest a more rigid hose that will not collapse? Maybe a hose that I can
> heat bend to form it around corners?
>
> thanks
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
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PFA Teflon line resists elements, chemical resistant
and will not collapse with the minor vacuum your
pulling. And it comes in a variety of sizes. IF you
are running from rear of car to brake booster I
recommend at least a 1/2" O.D. It can be heated with a
heat gun to form around corners. But it is flexible
enough not to need to be formed. Just tie wrap it in
place. I use it at work for virtually everything from
Vacuum, Nitrogen, Sulfuric Chemical flow and heated
solvents 100 degree C flow.
The other though would be Copper or Stainless Steel
but they would be harder and heavier to work with. But
they can be bent without heat as well. Avoid Polypro
or plain plastic tubing as the element will attack the
material.
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just tested my vacuum system yesterday it works
> great, but the vacuum pump
> cycles too long. I am pretty sure the vacuum pump is
> having to work harder,
> because I am using heater hose to connect from the
> pump (in the back of the
> car) up to the brake booster and it collapses a
> little bit. Can anyone
> suggest a more rigid hose that will not collapse?
> Maybe a hose that I can
> heat bend to form it around corners?
>
> thanks
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
hi
if you need to reduce compression under vacuum to a
minimum use copper pipe with a few inches of hose at
either end
cheap and easy to bend pipe like central heating
microbore 10mm would work fine (i've done this before)
use a plumbers former type pipe bender to make bends
or the install will look dreadful (bent mine first by
hand without formers and it looked like it was fitted
by a 16 yr old aprentice plumber)
if you can get the ends swaged do so but the one i did
stayed on for years with just good jubilee clips
regards
richard
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> PFA Teflon line resists elements, chemical resistant
> and will not collapse with the minor vacuum your
> pulling. And it comes in a variety of sizes. IF you
> are running from rear of car to brake booster I
> recommend at least a 1/2" O.D. It can be heated with
> a
> heat gun to form around corners. But it is flexible
> enough not to need to be formed. Just tie wrap it in
> place. I use it at work for virtually everything
> from
> Vacuum, Nitrogen, Sulfuric Chemical flow and heated
> solvents 100 degree C flow.
> The other though would be Copper or Stainless Steel
> but they would be harder and heavier to work with.
> But
> they can be bent without heat as well. Avoid Polypro
> or plain plastic tubing as the element will attack
> the
> material.
>
>
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I just tested my vacuum system yesterday it works
> > great, but the vacuum pump
> > cycles too long. I am pretty sure the vacuum pump
> is
> > having to work harder,
> > because I am using heater hose to connect from the
> > pump (in the back of the
> > car) up to the brake booster and it collapses a
> > little bit. Can anyone
> > suggest a more rigid hose that will not collapse?
> > Maybe a hose that I can
> > heat bend to form it around corners?
> >
> > thanks
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
>
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>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
>
> 30% batt weight = 20-40 mile,
> 40% = 30-60 miles
> 50% = 45-100 miles
these numbers look good to me
.
> Driving 20% slower gets you about 30-50% more
> range above 45 mph.
talking about range without talking about the speed is like talking about
power with out both amps and volts
" how much power can I get for 60 volts ?:-) " The problem is the distance
goes up as the speed goes down but by how much , It still amzes me how far I
really can go it i slow down , . Even my big ford ranger with just 20 golf
cart batteries did the 76 mile run at the sunday challange years ago with
less that 30% batteries .
> Thus from a cost, range, performance standpoint
> a light, aero, optimized EV is going to be a much
> better idea.
and why I lust after small light bodies
I was thinking this might make a funny cartoon ,
Electric car passing gas.
couple in a SUV behind a EV ( cord out the gas tank) at a red light . Lady
" Is that electric car farting at us ! their idea of natural has gone to
far" EV want to be hubbe " no dear that's the electric vacuum pump, "
Steve Clunn
> Needless to say, YMMV!!!
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, I was just informed that the link didn't work. Go to the Megawatt
Motorworks: http://www.megawattmotorworks.com Click on photos on the top bar
then click on Vegas 2002. Second line up from bottom, third photo over.
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Rod Hower wrote:
> Plug braking reveres the field on a series motor and
> applies a VERY low duty cycle while producing very
> high currents that circulate in the armature, which is
> basically a big resistor (kind of like a mechanical
> brake burning up heat) Perhaps it's the really high
> current pulses during plugging that do damage to the
> brushes.
I think you hit on the basic reason. Braking force is proportional to
the power being generated by the motor. In plug braking, the controller
applies field current to generate high-current and low-voltage at the
armature. The high current causes higher brush wear. Plus, all the power
generated is burned up in the motor (and freewheel diode in the
controller). This adds heat to the motor, which can't help life either.
In normal regen, you apply field current to generate low-current and
high-voltage in the armature. This produces a lot less heat and wear in
the motor (assuming the motor has interpoles or brushes timed so the
voltage doesn't cause arcing problems).
But, there's a complication. Many series motor regen circuits actually
set the controller up as a boost converter. In this case, it is still
running the motor at high-current and low-voltage, and boosting it with
the controller to the low-current high-voltage needed for battery
charging. The result is that the real motor current and voltage will be
somewhere in-between plug braking and regen.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> But, if mine bother people, I can take mine out.
> -
I hope not , I think i read them everytime I read your post , and I read all
your post , so repeating them in my mind helps counter all the none EV'er
stuff like " you can't change the world " or " one person can't make a
difference" . As an EV'er in a non EV world , I have to say I was a little
shook when ring the bell that still can ring , disappered , but I am now
happy with your new one .
Steve Clunn
> "Never doubt what a small group of thoughtless ,selfish
citizens can do to the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
realy messed thing up "
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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--- Begin Message ---
All good pipe solutions indeed but-
I know this may sound obvious but just mount the vacuum nearer the reservoir!!
There's always a way.
Steve
richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hi
if you need to reduce compression under vacuum to a
minimum use copper pipe with a few inches of hose at
either end
cheap and easy to bend pipe like central heating
microbore 10mm would work fine (i've done this before)
use a plumbers former type pipe bender to make bends
or the install will look dreadful (bent mine first by
hand without formers and it looked like it was fitted
by a 16 yr old aprentice plumber)
if you can get the ends swaged do so but the one i did
stayed on for years with just good jubilee clips
regards
richard
--- Bruce Weisenberger
wrote:
> PFA Teflon line resists elements, chemical resistant
> and will not collapse with the minor vacuum your
> pulling. And it comes in a variety of sizes. IF you
> are running from rear of car to brake booster I
> recommend at least a 1/2" O.D. It can be heated with
> a
> heat gun to form around corners. But it is flexible
> enough not to need to be formed. Just tie wrap it in
> place. I use it at work for virtually everything
> from
> Vacuum, Nitrogen, Sulfuric Chemical flow and heated
> solvents 100 degree C flow.
> The other though would be Copper or Stainless Steel
> but they would be harder and heavier to work with.
> But
> they can be bent without heat as well. Avoid Polypro
> or plain plastic tubing as the element will attack
> the
> material.
>
>
> --- Don Cameron wrote:
>
> > I just tested my vacuum system yesterday it works
> > great, but the vacuum pump
> > cycles too long. I am pretty sure the vacuum pump
> is
> > having to work harder,
> > because I am using heater hose to connect from the
> > pump (in the back of the
> > car) up to the brake booster and it collapses a
> > little bit. Can anyone
> > suggest a more rigid hose that will not collapse?
> > Maybe a hose that I can
> > heat bend to form it around corners?
> >
> > thanks
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
>
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
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