EV Digest 4058
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: [ThunderSky] Re: Battery Size's
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: decoding Siemens .trc inverter files?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Score One for EVs
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) perm 132 DC motor question
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Score One for EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Ev too quite
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: New recumbent motorcycle.
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Fuse placement
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Fuse placement
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Score One for EVs
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Score One for EVs
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Oh no. My ETEK ate a brush?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Found a running Aspire
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fuse placement
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Mixing battery chemistries!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Score One for EVs
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Found a running Aspire
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Oh no. My ETEK ate a brush?
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Fuse placement
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was watching "American Hot Rod" a few weeks ago, and they were building a
completely new car, from aluminum. I remember thinking at the time that such
a car would do very well as an EV, as it was light, custom designed and
doable.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: people willing to buy EVs
>Thoughts? Suggestions? Encouragement?
From my perspective, the ONLY thing that keeps ANYONE from
converting to an EV is money. Why did I not convert my car
yesterday or last week already? Money.
Have you selected and acquired your ideal vehicle to be
converted?
You basically just need 4 things: motor, controller,
charger, batteries. Plus some incidentals. 4/0 cable,
material for the battery racks/frames, something for the
throttle(pot box?), gauges, motor mount and adapter..
Do you want a 8 or 9 inch motor or something bigger?
Which Zilla do you want?
Which PFC charger do you want?
Do you want Optimas or Orbitals? How many?
I think we are already well over $4,000 at this point.
Installing and mounting the motor, controller, and charger
is the easy part.
Figuring out a way to securely mount the batteries... Seems
like there is an infinite amount of ways to do it, yet not a
universally simple and elegant way of doing it. Any tried
and trued method?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AH, I see why. Grade percentage. 2% is HUGE difference, especially
at speeds. I wonder why Don left 2% as "default" in his spread sheet.
My bad for overlooking it though, thanks.
Emil Naepflein wrote:
Look at the unmodified spreadsheet. There you can see a power at 60 mph
of 32296 W. I see 46 KW in the 120 km/h column, but this is 75 mph.
Here are the differences side-by-side:
Honda
FrontalAreaOfCar 1,86 m^2 2,39 m^2
PercentGrade 0 2
VehicleMass 1534 kg 1680 kg
Drivetrain efficiency 0,9 0,9
Tire rolling resistance coefficient 0,01 0,015
Brake and Steering Resistance 0,003 0,003
DragCoefficient 0,29 0,38
AirDensity 1,25 kg/m^3 1,2 kg/m^3
Speed (km/h) 100 100
(m/s) 27,8 27,8
ForceOfAirResistance (N) 260,1 420,5
ForceOfIncline (N) 0 329
ForceOfRollingResistance (N) 196 297
TotalDrag (N) 456 1046
Power to Maintain Speed (W) 14067 32296
Power to Maintain Speed (hp) 18,9 43,3
The main difference comes from the difference in PercentGrade and the
AirResistence. The other smaller differences just add up.
Emil
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:18:47 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Are you saying that the frontal area and drag combined for beetle
are 3 times worse than that for CRX?
Beetle: Cd=0.38 A=1.91m^2, product is 0.725
CRX: Cd=0.29 A=1.862m^2, product is 0.54
The product for CRX is 34% less but the power
consumption (main difference at high speed is only due to this
product) - ~300%.
Can you explain? May be Don can chime in.
Try the same numbers for 25mph where air drag and frontal area
still have negligible effect.
Victor
Emil Naepflein wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:38:20 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Careful, this spread sheet is attempt to formalize known
dependencies, but the end result may be off reality by a
factor of 2 or 3.
The spreadsheet is correctly programmed. All depends on the parameters
you enter.
It should not take for a normal pasenger car more than
15kW to move at 60 mph. My ACRX takes 45A at 300V at
60 mph, this is 13.5 kW. Yet Don's spreadsheet estimates
that for a new beetle (~ similar shape) 46kW needed - more
than 3x error.
The problem is that the New Beetle has a drag coefficient like a brick
and a frontal area much larger than your ACRX.
Just put the values of your ACRX into the spreedsheet and you get what
you expect (don't forget to set PercentGrade to 0):
FrontalAreaOfCar 1,86 m^2
PercentGrade 0
VehicleMass 1534 kg
Drivetrain efficiency 0,9
Tire rolling resistance coefficient 0,01
Brake and Steering Resistance 0,003
DragCoefficient 0,29
AirDensity 1,25 kg/m^3 (1.2 grams/litre)
Speed (km/h) 100
(m/s) 27,8
ForceOfAirResistance (N) 260,1
ForceOfIncline (N) 0
ForceOfRollingResistance (N) 196
TotalDrag (N) 456
Power to Maintain Speed (W) 14067
Power to Maintain Speed (hp) 18,9
You can clearly see that the is a lot of difference regarding energy use
at 60 mph for normal passenger cars. It seems to be that the beetle is
no optimal base for an energy efficient EV.
Cheers,
Emil
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--- Begin Message ---
James,
I'll send you a couple of .trc files in private. I'll be interested
if you can do it, or at least to tell how info is stored.
Victor
James Jarrett wrote:
Ditto,
I've always been pretty good at converting just about anything to a
useable form. In fact I'd like to see it just to give it a crack.
James
Don Cameron wrote:
Cliff, if you do not get an answer, send me a copy of the .trc file and I
will see what I can do. It will be a bit till I get my Siemens driven
car
on road, so I do not have any .trc files to play with.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ProEV
Sent: January 26, 2005 7:13 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: decoding Siemens .trc inverter files?
Hi,
The Siemens AC inverters create a file with a record of operating data
such
as current, voltage, etc. It saves this data as a .trc files. Has anyone
figured out a way to export this data into another file format such as
Excel?
Thanks
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I attended the Transportation Committee Meeting here in Port Townsend,
Washington yesterday afternoon. They had written a proposed ordinance on
motorized foot scooters that I will post on www.evawareness.com once it is
up. This ordinance basically made them illegal in the city limits. As I sat
there listening to these clueless board members speak I started to boil. It
became very obvious that the board members as well as the city attorney had
not even read the RCWs (State Statutes) defining and regulating these
vehicles. Here we have a committee making new laws concerning transportation
when they don't even know what the existing laws are. It was recommended by
someone on this list that having people approach the council in a rational
manner is a good thing and I agree with this for the most part. The problem
for me is that I am quite passionate about this subject and I can not hide
it. When it came time for public comment I jumped straight in their face. I
started my tirade with: "Here is what I think of your ordinance" as I tore
it in half. I accused them and the city attorney of not doing any homework
before they started penning legislation and suggested they go back to square
one and read the state ordinances. Three more people spoke in defense of
scooters in a calmer tone. When all was said and done we were able to get
electric foot scooters under the same safety and access laws as bicycles,
which is what the state law already says. We were also able to get a ban on
two stroke foot scooters. Score one for the planet. The only thing new is
that they want to pass a helmet law for scooters and bicycles. I spoke and
said that I race cars and I wear and helmet and that they have been proven
to prevent head injuries. I facetiously proposed that they add automobiles
to this law so that so that all people driving in the city limits wear
helmets. They of course knew that wouldn't fly.
Roderick Wilde
EV Awareness
"Stand up and be counted or lay down and get run over"
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody out there used the Perm 132 DC permanent magnet motor before. O the
back of the motor ther is an arrow indicating a direction or rotation. What is
the significance of this arrow?
If this is an optimized direction of rotation-why is this so? is it because of
the brushes? If so, because the Perm 132 motor doesn't seem to have any easy
access to the brushes, how do I optimize it for the opposite direction or
rotation. I cant imagine the arrow is there for no reason. Thanks
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
May be I missed beginning of this thread, but my
questions/comments inserted:
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Thoughts? Suggestions? Encouragement?
From my perspective, the ONLY thing that keeps ANYONE from
converting to an EV is money. Why did I not convert my car
yesterday or last week already? Money.
And time. And will power/motivation, skill level, having this
process as a hobby. No way I can make my wife to convert
anything, she has no skill/desire to work with tools.
But she thinks EV is a good idea and would use one.
Have you selected and acquired your ideal vehicle to be
converted?
Are you asking particular person or in general?
You basically just need 4 things: motor, controller,
charger, batteries. Plus some incidentals.
About right.
4/0 cable,
Why 4/0? This depends. I use gauge 2; gauge 4 would work
for me too.
material for the battery racks/frames, something for the
throttle(pot box?), gauges, motor mount and adapter..
Yes.
Do you want a 8 or 9 inch motor or something bigger?
What makes you limit the choices ADC motors?
Which Zilla do you want?
Why nesessarily Zilla?
Which PFC charger do you want?
Same question as above.
Do you want Optimas or Orbitals? How many?
What about non-lead?
I don't use any of the components you have mentioned above.
I think we are already well over $4,000 at this point.
Yes, if components are new.
Installing and mounting the motor, controller, and charger
is the easy part.
Easy compare to what? This depends on individual and
circumstances (available space, tools).
Figuring out a way to securely mount the batteries... Seems
like there is an infinite amount of ways to do it, yet not a
universally simple and elegant way of doing it. Any tried
and trued method?
There will be universal way when we will have universal
battery and universal car for everyone. Means never.
Don't hold your breath.
Do it the way it makes sence for *your* conversion. Just
do it. Design it to be easily re-doable it you're unsure
you can get it done well enough first time.
If you'll sit and wait for universal solution, you won't
have a conversion EV.
My 2 mm.
--
Victor
'91 ACTX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats with victory Rod! Thanks for what you are doing!
One step at the time.
Victor
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I attended the Transportation Committee Meeting here in Port Townsend,
....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a ford ranger up in north carolina that I was looking for a home for
. I worked out a deal with an old friend of mine who is planning out taking
the EV parts out and putting them in a honda body, I don't know what plans
he has for the old body , It's realy mine to sell . the battery boxes and
adaptor plant and all that is on the truck , you could buy new stuff and
just bolt it on or buy what parts you want to leave on , The 83 ford ranger
body is not in the best of shape although it just had new brakes and rear.
can be seen in www.grassrootsev.com .
----- Original Message -----
steve clunn
From: "Flowers, James R." <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: re: people willing to buy EVs
> OK guys, quiz time. I am located in South Carolina, near Savannah Georgia.
I
> cannot seem to find anything or anyone near me. I would like to
> find/inherit/buy someone else's abandoned partly finished project for my
> first try, and wouldn't mind a club/chapter.
>
> I looked at the only Florida site I could find, thru the eaaev.org link,
and
> there was no bulletin board.
>
> I thought to learn on the 1st one and pass it on, then keep the second
one.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Encouragement?
>
> Jim F.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need to throw watts at the problem, Turn up the stereo :-)
I was thinking about the 100 mph club, We should set up the
corresponding 100 mile club. with > 25mph and > 45mph catagories.
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov"
Subject: Re: people willing to buy EVs
>> Have you selected and acquired your ideal
>> vehicle to be converted?
>Are you asking particular person or in general?
Yes, I should have edited my reply more clearly. That was
in reponse to Jim F's email.
>Why 4/0? This depends. I use gauge 2; gauge 4 would work
>for me too.
I was thinking about a Zilla2k and 300v. See this neat
.pdf:
http://www.drakausa.com/documents/productPDF/FLEX-19.pdf
Or look at this .png file I made from that .pdf:
http://img161.exs.cx/img161/701/cable9hb.png
Notice the cable size, strand count, and the amp rating.
What size would be needed to connect all the bats together,
and connect the bats to Zilla, and from there to the motor?
>What makes you limit the choices ADC motors?
Maybe a WarP. What else is there? AC setups are far too
expensive. I also like the simplicity of the DC setup.
>Why nesessarily Zilla?
I haven't seen a Raptor or Curtis that supports that high of
voltage/amps.
>> Which PFC charger do you want?
>Same question as above.
It's an impressive charger.
>> Do you want Optimas or Orbitals? How many?
>What about non-lead?
I haven't seen anything yet that was cheaper or the same
price as lead. I also don't want to mount, wire, and
maintain ~9,000 batteries or how ever many. ;) 25, 12 volts
is already to many. But I can deal with that.
Regards
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
chris
i bow to your superior wisdom
i now understand why my short wheelbase narrow track etek powered trike threw
me off just before xmas
i hope the etek powered motorbike i'm building will be a success but listening
to you makes me doubt my own abilities
i'm going out to the garage to throw away all my tools and tomorrow i'm going
to join a golf club
goodbye
reb
Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Richard Ball wrote:
> lots of good points chris
> can you explain to me why in my case i have a pretty good
> grasp of mororcycle design and yet every sixth or seventh
> bike i build handles like a shopping basket despite having
> decent angles, etc after years of building bikes i have come
> to the conclusion that the interrelations between weight ,
> cd, wheelbase,angles,flex, road surface are so complex as to
> be difficult for one man in his shed to compute - if only i
> had an expert test rider and decent data logging it would be
> right every time my point here is sometimes you just have to
> build your ideas and accept that some of them will be crap...
> however some times you build things that should ride like a
> wheel barrow and shock horror they drive ok... so build your
> dream Lawrence and send us some pics from hospital the first
> time you use the front brake on your supertanker wheelbase FF
> ev in the wet..
Hi Richard,
OK, I just can't stop myself from giving a smarta$$ reply to your question:
The reason for the variability in your bikes' behavior is that they're all
different. :-) Most people who build specialty motorcycles, even some of
the world-renowned race bike fabricators, just sort of wing it. They know
what generally works, and they follow the evolution of what works as tires,
components and horsepower change. But this collection of parameters is an
envelope. Individual bikes, with their particular limits on cg height,
overall weight, F/R distribution, rider placement, wheelbase, concentration
of mass, chassis rigidity, etc. may fall squarely in the middle of the
envelope or might end up stuffed down in a corner. If you find most of your
designs are in the same corner, you need a new envelope. Lawrence will
definitely be defining his own envelope.
BTW, the supertanker wheelbase is a good illustration for several points
that have come up. It seemed a logical enough choice, and actually might
have been a good one - if Lawrence was building a land-speed-record (LSR)
bike. At very high speeds you need to slow down steering response, and
that's exactly what a long wheelbase does. I once saw a video* of racer
extraordinaire Cal Rayborn attempting to make a run in his LSR bike. He
gets pushed off and weaves wildly until the thing falls on its side. What
gets you stability at high speed gets you embarrassed at low speed.
Conditions dictate how a certain characteristic will affect behavior.
Tradeoffs are everywhere. My brother-in-law (an accomplished bicycle racer)
proved it again when he built a prototype HPV with a long wheelbase. He
fought a white-knuckle battle to keep it upright - it didn't become
manageable until much faster than I could go on my standard 10-speed. He
scrapped that idea.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I understand your concern but I'm not doing this alone. The
> punching bag
> analogy was to show that low center of gravity good. High
> bad.
Having help is good, but you've missed an important point. Low cg height
should not be a goal on its own. Cg height, high or low, is only one of
many characteristics that affect your bike's behavior. If you insist on
putting it low, you must be willing and able to adjust other characteristics
to suit. You may find you can get it too low.
I wish you the best of luck on this, and look forward to reading about your
progress. My parting piece of advice is to plan on throwing something
together that's quick and dirty to try things out. Providing for adjustable
rake and trail will be *very* helpful. *Then* build the real thing, using
everything you've learned (which will be plenty). Getting something so
unusual right on the first try is very unlikely, even for people who really
know their stuff. How many prototypes did Royce the FF guy go through?
Chris
* It's been a long time, but I think the footage of Cal Rayborn in his LSR
was in the movie "On Any Sunday". If you have any interest in motorcycles,
it's a great rental. Very dated but still quite a hoot.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Are you asking particular person or in general?
Yes, I should have edited my reply more clearly. That was
in reponse to Jim F's email.
Jim who has Fiat Seicento converted. I know Jim.
Why 4/0? This depends. I use gauge 2; gauge 4 would work
for me too.
I was thinking about a Zilla2k and 300v. See this neat
.pdf:
Notice the cable size, strand count, and the amp rating.
I see. You want max power Zilla at 300V.
>
What size would be needed to connect all the bats together,
and connect the bats to Zilla, and from there to the motor?
What makes you limit the choices ADC motors?
Maybe a WarP. What else is there? AC setups are far too
expensive. I also like the simplicity of the DC setup.
Yes, I've got an impression that the money is important
priority here. Yet you pick Zilla 2K (~5k), the most expensive
controler. Whole setup will cost you *the same* as AC one
without benefits of AC. Just more raw power.
As of simplicity of a DC setup - sotty, typical misconseption.
An integrated AC system is simpler to wire than a DC one
- see FAQ on my page why.
Why nesessarily Zilla?
I haven't seen a Raptor or Curtis that supports that high of
voltage/amps.
OK, you already answered this. You want max voltage max
current controller but don't want to pay proportionally.
I see.
Which PFC charger do you want?
Same question as above.
It's an impressive charger.
Please define "impressive". Highest amps/dollar?
If that's all that matters, PFC sure wins!
Do you want Optimas or Orbitals? How many?
What about non-lead?
I haven't seen anything yet that was cheaper or the same
price as lead.
If you want cheaper stiff, why pick Zilla2k you can't
take advantage of with cheap batteries anyway?
I also don't want to mount, wire, and
maintain ~9,000 batteries or how ever many. ;) 25, 12 volts
is already to many. But I can deal with that.
There are 12V NiZn ones, 6V NiCd ones.
Regards
Note - I'm not rtying to steer you toward AC setup,
attract your business or saying you've made wrong
decisions.
It's the exercise
for "thinking outside the box" most everyone been in for
past 20 years or so. As Lee pointed out, thinking outside
the box is "uncomfortable", no matter how much more
technically beneficial it might be.
I thought your decisions (and motivations) are typical for
majority of people, so decided to comment.
Nothing wrond with what you're doing, just much more
out there you haven't look at closely, so you may be
missing out.
Regards
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I'm wondering, does it matter where in the string of batteries the fuse
is placed? My guess is no, since the current is the same through the
entire pack. But I'm wondering if there is more to it than that?
It would work great if I could put the fuse someplace mid-pack rather
than at the outlet of the highest voltage point. I just want to be sure
before I do it.
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Midpack is good, IMO. That way a short INSIDE the battery box can
likely do less damage. It was told to me that the fuse then also only
needs to break half the voltage for a short outside the box. Your fuse
is in the middle of a voltage source in a schematic, if that helps to
think about it.
Seth
On Jan 26, 2005, at 10:14 PM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi,
I'm wondering, does it matter where in the string of batteries the
fuse is placed? My guess is no, since the current is the same through
the entire pack. But I'm wondering if there is more to it than that?
It would work great if I could put the fuse someplace mid-pack rather
than at the outlet of the highest voltage point. I just want to be
sure before I do it.
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is too funny Rod.
Especially the part about the helmet laws.
That sounds just like you.
Wishin' I could have been there to see it :^D
Will www.evawareness.com be up soon?
Roy
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I attended the Transportation Committee Meeting here in Port Townsend,
Washington yesterday afternoon. They had written a proposed ordinance on
motorized foot scooters that I will post on www.evawareness.com once it is
up. This ordinance basically made them illegal in the city limits. As I sat
there listening to these clueless board members speak I started to boil. It
became very obvious that the board members as well as the city attorney had
not even read the RCWs (State Statutes) defining and regulating these
vehicles. Here we have a committee making new laws concerning
transportation when they don't even know what the existing laws are. It was
recommended by someone on this list that having people approach the council
in a rational manner is a good thing and I agree with this for the most
part. The problem for me is that I am quite passionate about this subject
and I can not hide it. When it came time for public comment I jumped
straight in their face. I started my tirade with: "Here is what I think of
your ordinance" as I tore it in half. I accused them and the city attorney
of not doing any homework before they started penning legislation and
suggested they go back to square one and read the state ordinances. Three
more people spoke in defense of scooters in a calmer tone. When all was
said and done we were able to get electric foot scooters under the same
safety and access laws as bicycles, which is what the state law already
says. We were also able to get a ban on two stroke foot scooters. Score one
for the planet. The only thing new is that they want to pass a helmet law
for scooters and bicycles. I spoke and said that I race cars and I wear and
helmet and that they have been proven to prevent head injuries. I
facetiously proposed that they add automobiles to this law so that so that
all people driving in the city limits wear helmets. They of course knew
that wouldn't fly.
Roderick Wilde
EV Awareness
"Stand up and be counted or lay down and get run over"
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
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http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like you did a great job at the Transportation Committee meeting.
There are times when one needs to be sweet and reasonable and times when
one needs to raise hell. It sounds like you did what was needed.
Don't get smug. You won this round, but the opponents of scooters will
likely
try again and next time will probably be better prepared.
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I attended the Transportation Committee Meeting here in Port Townsend,
Washington yesterday afternoon. They had written a proposed ordinance on
motorized foot scooters that I will post on www.evawareness.com once it is
up. This ordinance basically made them illegal in the city limits. As I
sat there listening to these clueless board members speak I started to
boil. It became very obvious that the board members as well as the city
attorney had not even read the RCWs (State Statutes) defining and
regulating these vehicles. Here we have a committee making new laws
concerning transportation when they don't even know what the existing laws
are. It was recommended by someone on this list that having people
approach the council in a rational manner is a good thing and I agree with
this for the most part. The problem for me is that I am quite passionate
about this subject and I can not hide it. When it came time for public
comment I jumped straight in their face. I started my tirade with: "Here
is what I think of your ordinance" as I tore it in half. I accused them
and the city attorney of not doing any homework before they started
penning legislation and suggested they go back to square one and read the
state ordinances. Three more people spoke in defense of scooters in a
calmer tone. When all was said and done we were able to get electric foot
scooters under the same safety and access laws as bicycles, which is what
the state law already says. We were also able to get a ban on two stroke
foot scooters. Score one for the planet. The only thing new is that they
want to pass a helmet law for scooters and bicycles. I spoke and said that
I race cars and I wear and helmet and that they have been proven to
prevent head injuries. I facetiously proposed that they add automobiles to
this law so that so that all people driving in the city limits wear
helmets. They of course knew that wouldn't fly.
Roderick Wilde
EV Awareness
"Stand up and be counted or lay down and get run over"
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>> I also don't want to mount, wire, and
>> maintain ~9,000 batteries or how ever many. ;) 25,
>12 volts
>> is already to many. But I can deal with that.
>>
>There are 12V NiZn ones, 6V NiCd ones.
>>
>> Regards
I thought Evercel was no longer offering?
I'd LOVE to be able to get ahold of the Evertrolls used in
Pullen's Accord. I could have above average performance(0-60
~ 7-8 seconds, 130+ mph top speed) AND 100+ miles highway
range for an affordable price(~ $10k conversion cost).
I currently do not know of any NiZn batteries that are going
for < $600/kWh. That is by far more expensive than Optimas
or Exides. The Evertroll NiZn that were going for $250 for a
nearly 1 kWh battery last year would have been a $5k pack
for me that would give over 100 miles range and supply about
160 battery horsepower for frequent use. Or if I spend about
$6k for the smaller NiZn batteries that used to be available
to get a high nominal voltage, like 300+ volts, I'd have
even more power on tap with the same good range.
Not to mention the operating cost would still be lower than
a gas car with battery cost factored in.
So please tell me, where can I get the said batteries you
mention? And if I can, what are the caveats? Have they
suffered in terms of quality due to changes in production
method? I'd love nothing more than to use them for the
conversion I'm doing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, John Westlund wrote:
I thought Evercel was no longer offering?
I'd LOVE to be able to get ahold of the Evertrolls used in
Pullen's Accord. I could have above average performance(0-60
~ 7-8 seconds, 130+ mph top speed) AND 100+ miles highway
range for an affordable price(~ $10k conversion cost).
I have some M100s, but I'd like to get like 3 more. Sadly,
I currently do not know of any NiZn batteries that are going
for < $600/kWh. That is by far more expensive than Optimas
Same here.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did the first serious hill climbing going over Twin Peaks in San Francisco
today. The Lectra seemed to perform well. Went up the controller eating
hill then to Forest hill station and
back up Pacheco and then disaster. It sounded like a brush being eaten by
the motor. Stilted vibration running then nothing just a scrap sound on
every revolution while pushing the beast. I guess 16 to 54 might be a
little high for hill climbing in San Francisco. Gotta see what's wrong.
The motor only has maybe 10 hours of use. What are my options. No
warranty. Right? Rats........I kept the amps down. Only one 200 amp hill
for 10 seconds. Everything after that was kept to 150 or less. Mostly
less. Groan.........The Lectra with me on it weighs 700 pounds......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a running Aspire to replace the body badly damaged by an accident.
I'll transfer all the parts to the good body and scrap the damaged frame.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:23 PM 26/01/05 -0500, Seth wrote:
Midpack is good, IMO. That way a short INSIDE the battery box can likely
do less damage. It was told to me that the fuse then also only needs to
break half the voltage for a short outside the box. Your fuse is in the
middle of a voltage source in a schematic, if that helps to think about it.
Sorry, Seth. A short will end up with full voltage across the fuse,
wherever in the loop it is.
As for me, One each end of the strings (dual parallel strings @120V), and
one in the center of each string. Pulled fuses means no more than 60V
anywhere, and safe working on the traction wiring.
Mid-pack is good, to halve the maximum voltage between any two points (and
used for final install point on assembly), unless the charger is energised.
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I may wind up with 120v of extra NiCad. Is it possible to mix different
chemistries in two different strings or will my Lead Acid be hammered by the
NiCads loafing?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom, although I appreciate the compliment, you must understand that this
does not come from a position of smugness. It comes from a position of
dedication and perseverance. We are talking war here. We are fighting for
what we believe is a true value. That electric vehicles are an important
part of the survival of this planet. I take this extremely seriously. It's
the only planet I have left.
Roderick Wilde
"Stand up and be counted or lay down and get run over"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Score One for EVs
It sounds like you did a great job at the Transportation Committee
meeting.
There are times when one needs to be sweet and reasonable and times when
one needs to raise hell. It sounds like you did what was needed.
Don't get smug. You won this round, but the opponents of scooters will
likely
try again and next time will probably be better prepared.
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I attended the Transportation Committee Meeting here in Port Townsend,
Washington yesterday afternoon. They had written a proposed ordinance on
motorized foot scooters that I will post on www.evawareness.com once it
is up. This ordinance basically made them illegal in the city limits. As
I sat there listening to these clueless board members speak I started to
boil. It became very obvious that the board members as well as the city
attorney had not even read the RCWs (State Statutes) defining and
regulating these vehicles. Here we have a committee making new laws
concerning transportation when they don't even know what the existing
laws are. It was recommended by someone on this list that having people
approach the council in a rational manner is a good thing and I agree
with this for the most part. The problem for me is that I am quite
passionate about this subject and I can not hide it. When it came time
for public comment I jumped straight in their face. I started my tirade
with: "Here is what I think of your ordinance" as I tore it in half. I
accused them and the city attorney of not doing any homework before they
started penning legislation and suggested they go back to square one and
read the state ordinances. Three more people spoke in defense of scooters
in a calmer tone. When all was said and done we were able to get electric
foot scooters under the same safety and access laws as bicycles, which is
what the state law already says. We were also able to get a ban on two
stroke foot scooters. Score one for the planet. The only thing new is
that they want to pass a helmet law for scooters and bicycles. I spoke
and said that I race cars and I wear and helmet and that they have been
proven to prevent head injuries. I facetiously proposed that they add
automobiles to this law so that so that all people driving in the city
limits wear helmets. They of course knew that wouldn't fly.
Roderick Wilde
EV Awareness
"Stand up and be counted or lay down and get run over"
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Glad to hear. Hope you get it on the road soon. Will this
one be upgraded from the previous one, with perhaps NiCds,
or maybe even a Zilla later on down the road?
>I found a running Aspire to replace the body badly
>damaged by an accident. I'll transfer all the parts
>to the good body and scrap the damaged frame.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi lawrence
i'm keen to know what happened to your etek as im
using the same motor on my bike
hope it isn't terminal
regards
reb
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did the first serious hill climbing going over Twin
> Peaks in San Francisco
> today. The Lectra seemed to perform well. Went up
> the controller eating
> hill then to Forest hill station and
> back up Pacheco and then disaster. It sounded like
> a brush being eaten by
> the motor. Stilted vibration running then nothing
> just a scrap sound on
> every revolution while pushing the beast. I guess
> 16 to 54 might be a
> little high for hill climbing in San Francisco.
> Gotta see what's wrong.
> The motor only has maybe 10 hours of use. What are
> my options. No
> warranty. Right? Rats........I kept the amps down.
> Only one 200 amp hill
> for 10 seconds. Everything after that was kept to
> 150 or less. Mostly
> less. Groan.........The Lectra with me on it weighs
> 700 pounds......
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, I never really thought about it, but aren't you first and third
paragraphs contadictory? After thinking about it, I could certainly be
misinformed, but after reading your post, I know I am confused. At any
rate, I still think it is a good place to fuse. But that's a free
opinon, so you get what you paid for it.
Seth
On Jan 27, 2005, at 4:09 AM, James Massey wrote:
At 10:23 PM 26/01/05 -0500, Seth wrote:
Midpack is good, IMO. That way a short INSIDE the battery box can
likely do less damage. It was told to me that the fuse then also only
needs to break half the voltage for a short outside the box. Your
fuse is in the middle of a voltage source in a schematic, if that
helps to think about it.
Sorry, Seth. A short will end up with full voltage across the fuse,
wherever in the loop it is.
As for me, One each end of the strings (dual parallel strings @120V),
and one in the center of each string. Pulled fuses means no more than
60V anywhere, and safe working on the traction wiring.
Mid-pack is good, to halve the maximum voltage between any two points
(and used for final install point on assembly), unless the charger is
energised.
James.
--- End Message ---
