EV Digest 4059
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) YES! Re: Mixing battery chemistries!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Oh no. My ETEK ate a brush?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Oh no. My ETEK ate a brush?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Mixing battery chemistries!
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: people willing to buy EVs
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: perm 132 DC motor question
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) link-10 and link-20 on ebay
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) link 10 and link 20 on ebay
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Re-Send 4044 and 4046 ???
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fuse placement
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: [zappy] Digest Number 2902
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Low power turn signal flasher
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:Low_power_turn_signal_flasher?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) ETEK problem found.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: people willing to buy EVs OT: NiZn batteries
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: ETEK problem found.
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: link-10 and link-20 on ebay
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fuse placement
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Basic electronic controller question (higher battery voltage, than motor
voltage?)
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Fuse placement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) utility ev for sale in WA
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) E-tek repairs, parts, parts foe sale Re: ETEK problem found.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Hose for vacuum system
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: E-tek repairs, parts, parts foe sale Re: ETEK problem found.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Average performance is not 7-8 seconds 0-60. Or 130+ top speed. I keep
hearing crazy "average" numbers. Front wheel drive sports cars have to
work hard to get into the 7 second 0-60 range. That's about all my
turbo GTI would do while harming the clutch. And I think it would do
130, but only just. Average is probably more like 11 seconds 0-60.
The first GTI I had was a 10+ second 0-60 car and they called it a
"pocket rocket" in its day.
Seth
for a reality check:
http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html
On Jan 27, 2005, at 12:47 AM, John Westlund wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I also don't want to mount, wire, and
maintain ~9,000 batteries or how ever many. ;) 25,
12 volts
is already to many. But I can deal with that.
There are 12V NiZn ones, 6V NiCd ones.
Regards
I thought Evercel was no longer offering?
I'd LOVE to be able to get ahold of the Evertrolls used in
Pullen's Accord. I could have above average performance(0-60
~ 7-8 seconds, 130+ mph top speed) AND 100+ miles highway
range for an affordable price(~ $10k conversion cost).
I currently do not know of any NiZn batteries that are going
for < $600/kWh. That is by far more expensive than Optimas
or Exides. The Evertroll NiZn that were going for $250 for a
nearly 1 kWh battery last year would have been a $5k pack
for me that would give over 100 miles range and supply about
160 battery horsepower for frequent use. Or if I spend about
$6k for the smaller NiZn batteries that used to be available
to get a high nominal voltage, like 300+ volts, I'd have
even more power on tap with the same good range.
Not to mention the operating cost would still be lower than
a gas car with battery cost factored in.
So please tell me, where can I get the said batteries you
mention? And if I can, what are the caveats? Have they
suffered in terms of quality due to changes in production
method? I'd love nothing more than to use them for the
conversion I'm doing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bryan, When I built my Electro-Metro and now my electric Tracker
controller, I lowered the switching frequency to about 1500 hertz. (adjusted
with a sig-gen/scope off lamination/flabulation frequency so I don't hear it
in the cab) This makes for a more efficient cooler running control and
haven't hit an animal in the last 10 years. I was the MAJOR cause of Road
Kill prior to doing this in the Roanoke, VA area. I've read in Consumer
Reports and heard a study on NPR indicating that the deer whistles are a
placebo effect (they don't work), but hearing an eeeeeee coming at you
certainly does. I live out in the sticks and drive through an area with
bear and lotsa deer (also wild dogs, cats, muskrats, beavers, squirrels,
possums and some things I'm not sure of). mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "W Bryan Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:16 AM
Subject: Silent EV .. Dog/Deer Repelling?
> I think my EV is TOO silent. As I was coming home around dusk
> last night, a dog jumped out in front of me. Thankfully, I just
> had my brakes done.
>
> I see plenty of devices out there that emit deer-repelling noises.
> Does anyone here have one they use that also scares off dogs and
> cats?
>
> Thanks!
> Bryan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I may wind up with 120v of extra NiCad. Is it
> possible to mix different
> chemistries in two different strings or will my Lead
> Acid be hammered by the
> NiCads loafing?
Depends on how you do it, If you use slightly less
ni-cad voltage it will hang out until your lead pach
sags from higher power needs on accelerating or when
it goes soft at the end of the range.
Benefits are much lower purkeut losses in the
lead batts and less high current, deep discharge
damages for both longer range and life not including
the longer range the nicads provide.
By using cells you can adjust the voltage closely
until you have the perfect combo where they both
discharge at the same % of charge. Also as the ni-cads
would then need about the same charge voltage you
could use the same bulk charger with seperate final
charge cut off circuits.
You could use a higher current controller and make
that Aspire really fly!! It could be the first Aspire
to melt it's tires!!
I'd do it!!
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did the first serious hill climbing going over Twin
> Peaks in San Francisco
> today. The Lectra seemed to perform well. Went up
> the controller eating
> hill then to Forest hill station and
> back up Pacheco and then disaster. It sounded like
> a brush being eaten by
> the motor. Stilted vibration running then nothing
> just a scrap sound on
> every revolution while pushing the beast. I guess
> 16 to 54 might be a
> little high for hill climbing in San Francisco.
This is the same thing that mine did which ate the
commutator, distroying it!
Maybe it was only 1 and you can grind the copper
snot off with a dremel and sand the brushes back even
then use taller gearing.
Don't move it until you remove the brush holder to
prevent more brush damage. It's easy with just 3 small
bolts, metric though.
Good luck, I hope I'm wrong,
jerry dycus
> Gotta see what's wrong.
> The motor only has maybe 10 hours of use. What are
> my options. No
> warranty. Right? Rats........I kept the amps down.
> Only one 200 amp hill
> for 10 seconds. Everything after that was kept to
> 150 or less. Mostly
> less. Groan.........The Lectra with me on it weighs
> 700 pounds......
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I may be wrong but my guess is that your are reading battery amps and not
motor amps. Most Etek failures are due to overheating from too many motor
amps. A muffin fan on the end blowing over the brushes and out the armature
helps a great deal.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:19 AM
Subject: Oh no. My ETEK ate a brush?
Did the first serious hill climbing going over Twin Peaks in San Francisco
today. The Lectra seemed to perform well. Went up the controller eating
hill then to Forest hill station and
back up Pacheco and then disaster. It sounded like a brush being eaten by
the motor. Stilted vibration running then nothing just a scrap sound on
every revolution while pushing the beast. I guess 16 to 54 might be a
little high for hill climbing in San Francisco. Gotta see what's wrong.
The motor only has maybe 10 hours of use. What are my options. No
warranty. Right? Rats........I kept the amps down. Only one 200 amp
hill for 10 seconds. Everything after that was kept to 150 or less.
Mostly less. Groan.........The Lectra with me on it weighs 700
pounds......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's certainly possible, it just takes a bit of work. I have been running
with half NiCad, half Lead Acid on my motorcycle for quite a while. It's
all in one string, and I have to watch for whichever battery/cell dies first
then quite riding. For charging, I bulk charge them together then finish
charge the NiCads and Lead Acids seperately. I don' think that I would want
this as a permenant solution, I just don't like having the motorcycle in an
unrideable state, and have been collecting and testing used starting NiCad
cells.
There are many ways to use mixed capacities/chemestries, but they all
require additional hardware and/or monitoring to keep from ruining them.
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Mixing battery chemistries!
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:08:35 -0800
I may wind up with 120v of extra NiCad. Is it possible to mix different
chemistries in two different strings or will my Lead Acid be hammered by
the NiCads loafing?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
I looked at the only Florida site I could find, thru the eaaev.org link,
and
there was no bulletin board.
Try http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/floridaeaa/
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mark ward wrote:
Anybody out there used the Perm 132 DC permanent magnet motor before. O the back of the motor ther is an arrow indicating a direction or rotation. What is the significance of this arrow?
If this is an optimized direction of rotation-why is this so? is it because of the brushes? If so, because the Perm 132 motor doesn't seem to have any easy access to the brushes, how do I optimize it for the opposite direction or rotation. I cant imagine the arrow is there for no reason. Thanks
I have a PMG 132 in my boat. I have no experience of that direction of
rotation aspect, other than it runs with a barely noticeable different
sound when reversed. I tried the motor when it was a part, not attached
to the saildrive. It does not make as much brush noise as the Etek that
I have. The Etek sounds good when it is coasting to stop :-]
The arrow shows how the brushes are designed for the rotor to, well,
rotate. Perhaps a slight angle from 90 degrees or maybe rotation from
radial, thinking about the lemco'ish construction principle.
But my Perm Motor contact naturally said it is ok to run my motor the
other way, the brushes might be consumed a bit faster that's all.
I suppose there should be a difference in amps/rpm without load but have
no tacho so cannot tell. At power levels higher than this, eventual
brush pressure or some such difference might not matter much. Or might
make the difference between fireballing and not, if you're thinking drag
racing or so.
The PMG 132 at 24V 110A (battery current) gets hot in 30 minutes and
needs ducted airflow to keep cool.
Pekka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: E-tek repairs, parts, parts foe sale Re: ETEK problem found.
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:51:32 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
As for motor temperature sensors, go to a motor shop and pick up some motor
overload temperature sensors You can get them in any temperature rating you
need.
Get the ones that will auto reset when temperature of motor comes down.
This is normally a on off type of device, so you could used a LED
indication.
My motor sensors (have two of them at two different temperatures) is attach
to the field windings by this method.
Pick up motor insulation paper, tie strings, high temperature glass wire
slip on protectors and brush on motor enamel (or you can get this in a
spray) from the motor shop.
Wrap a area and tie on the insulation paper where the overload device will
set on. Brush on motor enamel over the paper and tie the sensor on. Slip on
the high temperature wire covers at this time, which should be long enough
to exist the motor.
Drill one or two holes in the motor shell, and install grummets for wire
exit with the high temperature wire covers on. You can tie the ends of the
wire covers to prevent any dust or water to get in.
Now completely wrap more insulation paper over the sensor Add motor enamel
over each layer of paper. Tie and secured the wrap insulation paper, so no
air is expose to the sensor Finish off, by coating it with motor enamel.
Before installing the sensors, you should test them to see if they are
normally open. Apply a heat sourced like a heat gun to test them out.
With the wires exiting out of the motor, used a wirewrap of wireloom to go
to a fuse of 1 or 2 amps at 12 VDC going to a optional switch so you can
turn on or off this circuit.
You can also install a meter sender unit, so you can read a indicated
temperature. The water temperature sensor is too large and it would be
better to used a sensor that is smaller, that can be attach to the motor
windings a lot better.
What I have done, was go to a Heating supply store, that has all type of
heating sensor The I used was a pyro type, (the one that sends a small
current when heated) used for gas flame detection. I got the one that had a
small stainless wrap over the copper sender tubing leads. I than double
wrap this with wire spiral wrap and a high temperature covering.
I tested senser out by connecting it to a Stewart Warner Water Temperature
meter. Applying some heat with a heat gun, this meter start to rise and
would peg.
To calibrated the meter to a corrected heat indication, I attach a separated
temperature sensor which I have in my multimeter. You could use a small
solid state digital temperature meter made by Acurite which you can get for
less than $10.00 from WalMart.
I temporary install a variable resistor or pot in the circuit to the meter
to adjust the temperature meter temperature to the test meter. I than
install a resistor to set it.
Some of these motor sensers are normally install on the inside frame of the
motor, not on the windings. For this type, you would have to calculated
what the maximum motor frame temperature would get to for the maximum field
winding temperature to the rotor temperature.
A motor shop, should have the data for maximum temperatures on types of wire
insulation and what overload temperature sensors for what type of motors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 7:41 AM
Subject: E-tek repairs, parts, parts foe sale Re: ETEK problem found.
> Hi Richard, Lawrence and All,
> --- richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > thanks for that lawrence
> > sorry for your disaster
> > would it be worth monitoring the motor temperature ?
>
> Yes and limit motor amps to 300 and the time at it
> or so. I melted the commutator on mine by overamping
> it probably.
> Adding a box fan to the brush holder like Rod said
> is mandatory for hilly area's like SF he's in.
> An oil-water temp setup for a car would be a cheap
> way to go but hard to attach anything to the rotor
> where it's really needed.
>
> > any suggestions how best to do this ?
> > regards
> > reb
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It appears that the windings terminate at the top of
> > the rotor and are
> > connected to the other side with one inch connectors
> > to the other side. It
> > might be possible that with the hill climbing I
> > heated up the motor enough
> > to melt the connectors off the rotor. I lost 5 found
> > 2 in the motor. It
> > seems they balance the motor by grinding parts of
> > the rotor connectors or
> > the connectors ground some of the rotor away. It's
> > in limited areas so it
> > looks like it was done on purpose. It seems there
> > are 128 of these
> > connectors around the outside of the rotor. I can
> > only guess I heated the
> > motor too much. Seems my gear ratio is too high even
> > though I didn't exceed
> I'd go to as small a primary sprocket as you can
> or a bigger wheel sprocket for at least 4-1 ratio.
>
>
> >the continous amp limit & had good power above 25mph
>
> Did you? Like Rod said you need to monitor motor
> amps, not batt amps. How many motor amps does your
> controller put out?
> You probably did overheat it as they can't take
> over 150 amps for long.
>
> > on the hills. I still
> > have a fried motor. Wonder if I can solder them back
>
> No, but maybe braze or weld then back on. Maybe do
> them all as others are probably weakened. They were
> probably pressure welded, basicly like crimping we do
> on wire lugs, at the factory.
> Sounds like it's repairable. Clean the oxide off to
> bright metal before trying any of these repairs.
> I'd like to buy the magnets if you can't fix it or
> from anyone else who has some.
> I have a dead rotor for end cap parts if you can't
> find one locally. Still trying to get snap ring pliers
> cheap to take it of.
> And have a motor casing, brush holder for sale if
> anyone interested, e mail me offlist.
> I've finally figured out how to make a good BLDC
> motor easily from one of it's magnet ring using
> tranformer cores.
> If I can get another set, I can make 4 motors from
> what was 2 E-teks PM's that go 6,000rpm without the
> brushes, commutator or cooling problems it has at less
> weight.
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
>
>
> > on? The motor was hot
> > to the touch. Lawrence Rhodes.........Seems I am
> > blowing things up so you
> > guys don't have to. Watch your ETEK heating!
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 415-821-3519
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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>
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>
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--- End Message ---
