EV Digest 4092
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 1970s cars
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Smart EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Any news or updates?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: 1970s cars for conversion?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Smart EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Peltier car cooling
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Lithium Ion battery breakthrough: 3X power + recharge in minut
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 1970s cars
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) (no subject)
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 1970s cars
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re:
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: 42-volt starting batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 1970s cars
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 1970s Cars
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I will try and make a long story short. Currently I have a customer using
12volt Prestolite pump motors, specifically MMY-6101, made for Fenner,
Waltco, Maxom Lift. The only new motors we can get are off shore, Chinese
units, even Fenner is supplying these now. They come with the brush holder
that screws in three places into the side of the barrel. We are running the
motors on 84 volts and melting the brush holders. The motors are engaged for
one second, off for a second, engaged for a second, off for a second, i.e.
tapping a button. So here are some questions I have for you that have more
expertise than I (yes some butt kissing)
1.) Do the original Prestolite motors have the brush holders attached to the
com. end plate? Bad question for a Prestolite SD to ask I know. The smaller
Fenner pumps have this, and I think the older true Prestolites do as well,
but I haven't seen one in three years. Having the heavier brush holder with
thicker insulators should eliminate the arcing and melting of the holders,
correct?
2.) Does anyone have a source for cores for these units, good or bad?
3.) If I rewind just the field coils to 6volts and lower battery voltage to
48volts, will it have the same effect as running 12volt motors on 96volts?
4.) Should I rewind the armatures to 6 volts as well?
5.) If I under cut the comm. on the armature it will fry, correct? Can I use
12volt brushes with the higher voltages, or should I use a different
compound brush. I can get mica inserts in the comm., but it will require the
brushes to be harder, i.e. 12volt compound.
6.) Is there a formula to tell you how much power a motor will have when you
change voltages. Specifically I have 12 volt motors that produce 75ftlbs of
torque and 11hp. What will they produce at 24 volts, 48 volts, and 144volts?
What effect would putting 6 volt field windings in the same motors, and
keeping the 12volt armature have on those figures be?
Thanks in advance for all input, it is very appreciated.
Raymond
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--- Begin Message ---
> >How about a British car? MGs and Triumphs of the era were pretty
> >robust and sporty. TR6, TR7, MBG
> >GT. Many options.
>
> OK, call me strange, but I've always wanted to electrify a Sunbeam
> (or Hillman) Imp. I once drove one as a gas car and I must say it was
> a hoot to drive!
>
(Why call ya strange when we take that for granted?) Is the car Arnold uses in
"Commando" (tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands) similar or was
that a Tiger? I'd love a Bugeye with a hard convertable top, and while we're at
it, a high-volt pack of Kokam LiPo paralleled to supply a Z1K -- smokin'!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<Hmmm. Buying up used EVs to spiff up and resell, lots of stock moving
around, why does this sound familiar? Oh, yeah, U. S. Electricar, aka
Solar Electric Engineering.>>
Would there be someone named Gary Starr as a common denominator here?
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--- Begin Message ---
> My current project is a 72 Volkswagon bug, which is undergoing a
> ground-up restoration, modification and conversion to 156 volts. I'll
> be running a large DC motor with a 1200 Raptor controller. The Insanity
> Feature of this vehicle is that I am narrowing it 12 inches. The rear
> suspension has been narrowed 12 inches and will be running on 10 or 11
> inch slicks, not yet decided which. The front suspension was narrowed 7
> inches and will be running 4-1/2 x 15 inch drag tires. The
> undercarriage has been completely rebuilt and is ready to receive the
> narrowed body and roll cage when that is ready. I have new aftermarket
> pans for the floor, which was completely rusted out. And there is quite
> a bit of body work to be done on the heater channels which rest on the
> floor pans. Fortunately, there are a lot of aftermarket parts for VW
> bugs. The current status of the body is that it is sitting in pieces in
> the driveway, sawn down and ready to be reassembled 12 inches narrower.
> At least one heater channel will need replacing on the bottom. All of
> the glass will be replaced with 1/8" Lexan. I'm not setting any
> deadline on completing this car - I don't need the stress!
>
> In the process of narrowing the car, I'll be removing approximately 5
> square feet of frontal area, which should improve the aero considerably,
> and the process of narrowing the track will change the aspect ration
> between the tread and the wheel base. This should give the effect of a
> longer car.
>
Wow! I mean really, WOW! I wish I had that much EV activity going on! Will I
have to have all my hair go white before then?!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ever considered one of those little Opel GTs? Looks kind of like a
small vette.
Those Opels are getting VERY scarce, and the parts are even harder to
find. Granted you wouldn't need any engine components, but there are
still a lot of other parts you'd need to source.
Also, these were a low horsepower, low torque car, so converting to EV
would probably require the upgrade of a number of the components to
tolerate the higher torque, and you'd probably need to update the
suspension as well.
All in all, I think the Opel would make for a fun EV, but I think it
would be very expensive (comparatively) and would require a lot of
fabrication.
Just my .02
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---
Get rid of all the other ev's, smart marketing move and increase the stock
value, but very underhanded...
----- Original Message -----
From: "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: Smart EV
Yeah, they tried to buy my Henney Kilowatt, When I told them I was not
interested in stock, but wanted cash, the seemed rather put out. Oh
well....
On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 13:35, Mike Chancey wrote:
FWIW, at one point they also offered to buy almost ever decent EV on the
EV
Tradin' Post with stock. I think they did get one.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Raymond (and all)
I'm not a motor expert, but I'll contribute my thoughts:
At 02:04 PM 12/02/05 -0500, Raymond wrote:
I will try and make a long story short. Currently I have a customer using
12volt Prestolite pump motors, <snip> We are running the
motors on 84 volts and melting the brush holders. The motors are engaged for
one second, off for a second, engaged for a second, off for a second, i.e.
tapping a button.
Immediate thought: whaaaat ghn duh huh wha! how many on/off cycles at a
time? if more than a few, no wonder he's murdering the motor. It hasn't
reached speed and then stopping, massive current peaks again and again. The
brushes probably just about glow in the dark! What is the application? Can
he not use a PWM controller? or a larger and higher voltage motor that will
survive?
So here are some questions I have for you
1.) Do the original Prestolite motors <snipped since I don't know these
motors> Having the heavier brush holder with
thicker insulators should eliminate the arcing and melting of the holders,
correct?
Have the brushes been advanced for the direction of travel? being massively
over-driven the magnetic field will be a long way askew, so the brushes
will be unlikely to be neutral to the magnetic field - which will cause
arcing. Thicker insulators will make little difference from the sound of
it. Heavier brush holders may help, depending on the real cause of the melting.
2.) Does anyone have a source for cores for these units, good or bad?
3.) If I rewind just the field coils to 6volts and lower battery voltage to
48volts, will it have the same effect as running 12volt motors on 96volts?
I assume then that this motor is a shunt motor? What effect is he needing,
horsepower, speed or torque?
4.) Should I rewind the armatures to 6 volts as well?
5.) If I under cut the comm. on the armature it will fry, correct? Can I use
12volt brushes with the higher voltages, or should I use a different
compound brush. I can get mica inserts in the comm., but it will require the
brushes to be harder, i.e. 12volt compound.
The commutator segment gaps should be undercut for good performance and
life already. Brush compound should be a low-resistance compound, to
minimise heating - but this may be at the penalty of higher currents to the
windings (cooking the rotor instead of the brushes) and higher brush dust
generation (softer compound).
6.) Is there a formula to tell you how much power a motor will have when you
change voltages. Specifically I have 12 volt motors that produce 75ftlbs of
torque and 11hp. What will they produce at 24 volts, 48 volts, and 144volts?
What effect would putting 6 volt field windings in the same motors, and
keeping the 12volt armature have on those figures be?
At what RPM? Sorry, crystal ball broken. One of our motor practicioners may
be able to tell you in general terms, but the specifics depend on RPM
loading and many other parameters that I'm not experienced enough with
motors to illuminate.
Thanks in advance for all input, it is very appreciated.
Raymond
So I come back to the application:
Can he not use a bigger and higher voltage motor? (I would assume that the
size and weight of the motor is an issue)
Can he not use an electronic controller instead of manual switching?
With more information on the application, rather than concentrating on the
motor, a better end result may be obtained for your customer.
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Raymond,
Speaking only to your question on the prestolite cores, are these
similar/same as starters such as found in aircraft? If so i might have a
few. But a better/cheaper source might be a fellow I ran across on E-bay. I
don't seem to be able to find my bookmark for him, so the best I can
remember is that he sold DC electric motors on E-bay, had an E-bay store for
same and was in the midwest. What sparked my interest was he had E-track
deck motors, and snow plow lift motors that sound similar to what you are
talking about. He mentioned he had a few Prestolite cores to sell, however
for me the shipping costs precluded this being viable. Maybe you can run him
to ground searching E-bay, might even turn up some other sources.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will try and make a long story short. Currently I have a customer using
12volt Prestolite pump motors, <snip> We are running the
motors on 84 volts and melting the brush holders. The motors are engaged
for
one second, off for a second, engaged for a second, off for a second, i.e.
tapping a button.
Folks need much more specific info than this to make an educated guess. Can
you describe in detail exactly what you are doing with the motor?
If you are are melting brush holders, what are you using for a switching
device?
Isn't that melting too? :^D
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cloudelectric.com
www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While looking for something else, I found this site
http://www.amerigon.com/peltier-module.htm
Peltier cooling for seats and Peltier air conditioning.
I don't think this would be practical for whole cabin cooling, as a
peltier's COP is a little less than 1 and therefore would involve very
high power levels but a combo of the seat coolers and some spot air
coolers for the face and chest might just do the trick.
I built a chilled water seat cooler for my first car oh so many years ago.
It involved a heat exchanger in the suction line of the car's AC and a
grid of tubing under the seat upholstery. This was wonderful. The seat
would cool even before the cabin started cooling off so the period of heat
soak sweat time was minimal. This system would be so much simpler.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One thing to remember. A 50kW continuous motor that is 90% efficient
becomes a 62.5Kw continuous motor at 92% efficiency (same heat to
reject). That's a 25% improvement in continuous power. Or a smaller
motor to haul you around before it overheats. Which is a big deal when
you are moving all that lead. Ask anyone who has ever tripped the
thermal switch on a Force. What you wouldn't do for 0.5% more
efficiency so your car didn't just stop to cool off. The motors
(AC20GTx) without the fins are really pretty small. But they will
(under most circumstances) stay just cool enough.
Just think if you could run an inexpensive 6.7" ADC at double the power
with the same losses. People would look at you funny if you suggested a
9" motor (unless you are a NEDRA type).
Seth
On Feb 12, 2005, at 4:01 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Are these DC motors as advanced as they are ever going to get?
Pretty much.
(and I would add) ...because people have assumed there is no room for
improvement, and so have stopped trying.
About what year did these motors peak out at?
Hmmm, 92 maybe 93? That of course would be 1892.
No; it's not that bad!
Plain old brushed DC motors were still a hot R&D topic into the 1950's.
Until the transistor was invented, mechanical/electrical/magnetic
improvements were "the way to go" to improve overall motor performance.
I.e. you got all your gains from the motor itself, not the circuits
driving it.
There's not a lot of innovation you can do with a series wound DC
motor. The big ones are relatively efficient and there's not much
you can do to improve their efficiency except narrow your tolerances.
This is true for efficiency because it is already very good. 90%
efficient motors are straightforward to make.
But, there is a *lot* of room for improvements in other areas -- size,
weight, cost, torque/speed operating range, reliability, etc. are all
still improving.
Most recent improvements have come from better materials. Much better
magnets and magnetic alloys, much better insulation, etc. This allows
modern motors to be much smaller for a given horsepower, because they
can run hotter without damage.
Also, large strides are being made to reduce manufacturing cost through
automation. Motors are relatively complicated, and a lot of labor goes
into them. But there are automated factories that reduce this to nearly
zero. It ain't cheap labor that makes Mabuchi toy motors cost less than
$1!
Finally, computer aided design has allowed motors to be designed that
would have required too much trial-and-error effort to do by hand. This
is how they optimize the expensive AC motors used in EVs and other
high-performance applications.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Altair Nanotechnologies Achieves Breakthrough in Battery Materials
Thursday February 10, 9:45 am ET
Altair's Developments Pave the Way for a New Generation of
Rechargeable Batteries
RENO, NV--(MARKET WIRE)--Feb 10, 2005 -- Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc.
(NasdaqSC:ALTI - News) announced today that it has achieved a
breakthrough in Lithium Ion battery electrode materials, which will
enable a new generation of rechargeable battery to be introduced into
the marketplace, as well as create new markets for rechargeable
batteries. These new materials allow rechargeable batteries to be
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batteries at the same price and with recharge times measured in a few
minutes rather than hours.
The technical achievements are being praised by the battery community
as truly remarkable and will likely enable a new generation of
rechargeable battery to be produced. Altair has confidentiality
agreements in place with some of the world's leading battery
development companies to evaluate and commercialize these battery
electrode materials.
Altair's research and development efforts were allowed two new patents
(announced on January 7th and 14th, 2005) and a National Science
Foundation grant was successfully completed in January, 2005, by
Altair. New markets for fast charging batteries will include the
handheld power tools market increasing the productivity of, for
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Other markets include hybrid electric vehicles, portable electronics
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Endorsements for Altair's work in this area have come from many
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Dr. Alan J. Gotcher. "Many of the technology and product development
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Dr. K. M. Abraham
Dr. Abraham, the principal of E-KEM Sciences, has over 28 years of
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Dr. Vassilis G. Keramidas
Dr. Keramidas, Managing Director of Keramidas International, provides
management consulting to major corporations on the formulation and
execution of their research and development. Prior to founding
Keramidas International, he was Vice President of Applied Research at
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made seminal contributions in the fields of photonic and electronic
materials. The Bellcore research on energy storage ushered in the
polymer battery Li-Ion technology with the invention of the Bellcore
Plastic Li-Ion (PLiON) technology. Dr. Keramidas sits on the Board of
two battery companies.
ALTAIR NANOTECHNOLOGIES INC.
Altair Nanotechnologies, through product innovation, is a leading
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AltairnanoT, Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc.®, Altair
NanomaterialsT,
TiNano®, RenaZorbT, NanoCheckT, TiNano SpheresT and
the Hydrochloride
Pigment ProcessT are trademarks or registered trademarks of Altair
Nanotechnologies, Inc.
Contact:
For Additional Information:
Marty Tullio or Mark Tullio
McCloud Communications, LLC
949.553.9748
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DC controls peaked in thier use and complexity with WW2 motors and aircraft
generators. With power slilicon rectifiers and SCR of the 50s and 60s DC
control was on it's way out.
The 20 s was definatley NOT the peak of brushed DC aparatus designs.
On the first Ev motor that I used, it had compensating windings, interpoles,
and pole face windings, and could be run in Series mode, compound mode, and
fully controlled field regulated generator mode.
You didn't want to have to trace out the circuits inside one of these
puppies!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
>
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> > Potentially in a full size pickup conversion, a 600 or
> > 900(or more) volt pack could be installed in the bed. What
> > might the absolute upper limits to any currently available
> > DC motor be? Would that be due to arcing problems? What
> > are the upper voltage limits a Zilla could be scaled too?
> >
> > Are these DC motors as advanced as they are ever going to
> > get? About what year did these motors peak out at?
> >
>
> I have the book "Armature Window and Motor Repair" published in 1920. It
> speaks of interpoles, compensating windings, etc. I believe DC motors
> were about as advanced as they were going to get in 1920, at least in
> our power range.
>
> I believe 900v would be the max. Beyond that I believe it is hard to
> properly insulate everything, especially around the commutator.
> 600v is a pretty common value for traction applications (subway trucks)
> I've been to a subway test facility that tested 600v motors, but they
> were AC so I guess that's irrelevant.
>
> Power electronics are readily available for well over 1000v. New silicon
> carbide rectifiers will also help the situation in that regard.
>
> Say you wanted 120kW @ 600v, that would only be 200 amps.
> I'd personally be scared of anything I built that ran at 600v though. A
> blue flashing light would be in order...
>
> --
> Martin K
> http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh boy... Lots of points to cover and I don't have canned formulas., but
some good guide lines do help.
I don't have a clue as to what the insides of this motor look like. Add
bigger wire! and shorten the runs if you can.
OK Making things bigger and adding more insulation... first you have to ask
where your heat is coming from? Is it from resistance??? If so make bigger
copper feeds. Is it from Arcing that is happening because your timing is
getting out of order? Alot of arcing in a motor is NOT copper and Graphite
limited. You can retime the brushes so that the arcing is minimum for the
loading you are attempting.
Said another way. IF you can get your brushes placed perfectly for the
voltage, RPM, and amp loads yo wish, you can almost eliminate arcing.
Just make 'em bigger make 'em better.
Field winding are a amp turn thing. If you reduce your field turns you
loose torque per amp but gain RPM per volt. If your windings have the same
turns on a 6 volt motor as the 12 volt motor but twice the copper size, you
don't gain much, just less heat. Winding heat temp is almost never the
limiting factor on DC motor.
6 volt windings and 12 volt windings... if they have the same turns in each
pole coil, and the same amps then they make the same Amp turns of flux. If
they are not the same. The rule is the more turns the more field strength,
This gives you more torque per amp but at a lower RPM. Les turns... more
rpm, less torque. Where do you want to go? and From where are you
starting???
Brushes... the lower the voltage the motor the lower the resistance the
brush material can be. Getting too low a R bush will encourage arcs at high
voltages and high RPMs.
Most of the inductace in a motor is in the field windings... most of the
resistance is in the Armature windings. Most of the heat made at racing
levels is in the Brush commutator interface. NOT the brush leads but the act
of commutating Kilo amps and having the timing move on you as RPM and amps
increase, just makes the problem worse.
Yes the higher the voltage the harder the brushes... and there are about 6
other things that need to happen also.
Power from a motor. The actual formulas are long winded, and constrained to
a prefect world. You of course are Not.
75 ftlbs of torque at 12 volts, Yea OK Watts missing here is the Amps, and
the actual voltage, and like wise a RPM that the motor makes the 75 ftlbs
at.
So to lock down a performance point we need torque, RPM, motor amps and
motor volts. Anything else has too many unknowns to Guess at.
Typically doubling the voltage upps the power by 4 that you can make.
Assuming the amps can jump up as they need to.
I captured a 1000 amp pulse into my dyno last night....I am now learning a
LOT about timing and brush placment.
I have amps and torque pretty well down. The data is getting much closer to
the manufactures plots. I need to get motor voltage and some kind of RPM
pulse or value read into the A to D data collector.
Once this is done and the data at know points basicly matches published data
points, I will be posting graphs and curves on my site of the more popular
EV motors. I intend to collected this data out to 2000 motor amps... or the
arc limits that each motor will have.
I can record up to 1000 ftlbs... I doubt this point is going to be seen very
soon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:04 AM
Subject: Small Prestolite Pump Motor and over voltage questions
> I will try and make a long story short. Currently I have a customer using
> 12volt Prestolite pump motors, specifically MMY-6101, made for Fenner,
> Waltco, Maxom Lift. The only new motors we can get are off shore, Chinese
> units, even Fenner is supplying these now. They come with the brush holder
> that screws in three places into the side of the barrel. We are running
the
> motors on 84 volts and melting the brush holders. The motors are engaged
for
> one second, off for a second, engaged for a second, off for a second, i.e.
> tapping a button. So here are some questions I have for you that have more
> expertise than I (yes some butt kissing)
> 1.) Do the original Prestolite motors have the brush holders attached to
the
> com. end plate? Bad question for a Prestolite SD to ask I know. The
smaller
> Fenner pumps have this, and I think the older true Prestolites do as well,
> but I haven't seen one in three years. Having the heavier brush holder
with
> thicker insulators should eliminate the arcing and melting of the holders,
> correct?
> 2.) Does anyone have a source for cores for these units, good or bad?
> 3.) If I rewind just the field coils to 6volts and lower battery voltage
to
> 48volts, will it have the same effect as running 12volt motors on 96volts?
> 4.) Should I rewind the armatures to 6 volts as well?
> 5.) If I under cut the comm. on the armature it will fry, correct? Can I
use
> 12volt brushes with the higher voltages, or should I use a different
> compound brush. I can get mica inserts in the comm., but it will require
the
> brushes to be harder, i.e. 12volt compound.
> 6.) Is there a formula to tell you how much power a motor will have when
you
> change voltages. Specifically I have 12 volt motors that produce 75ftlbs
of
> torque and 11hp. What will they produce at 24 volts, 48 volts, and
144volts?
> What effect would putting 6 volt field windings in the same motors, and
> keeping the 12volt armature have on those figures be?
> Thanks in advance for all input, it is very appreciated.
> Raymond
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Is the car Arnold uses in "Commando"
>(tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands)
>similar or was that a Tiger?
Since I happen to have that DVD.. Here are some shots of
that car:
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/1779/commando16fm.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2355/commando26dv.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3087/commando35ji.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/6821/commando46sb.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2921/commando56qa.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/4459/commando63ma.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the bug the other day and decided to start a new
conversion. It's a simple one with a 6.7 inch ADC
motor, 14 orbitals and a Z1K. I'm going to put a big
10K generator head in line with the ADC to use for
regen. I put todays progress on my website. the link
is below. I will be ordering some more parts on monday
to continue. I hope to use this as part of my sizzle
reel to pitch my new show.
Gadget
http://reverendgadget.com/subpage3.html1.html
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The red car in the scene is a tiger, I have an Alpine,
it looks the same except it has larger tail fins with
a slight backward slope to the taillights.
Gadget
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >Is the car Arnold uses in "Commando"
> >(tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands)
> >similar or was that a Tiger?
>
> Since I happen to have that DVD.. Here are some
> shots of
> that car:
>
> http://img238.exs.cx/img238/1779/commando16fm.jpg
>
> http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2355/commando26dv.jpg
>
> http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3087/commando35ji.jpg
>
> http://img238.exs.cx/img238/6821/commando46sb.jpg
>
> http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2921/commando56qa.jpg
>
> http://img238.exs.cx/img238/4459/commando63ma.jpg
>
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice job but how did you get the holes in your plate in the right places.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:07 PM
I got the bug the other day and decided to start a new
conversion. It's a simple one with a 6.7 inch ADC
motor, 14 orbitals and a Z1K. I'm going to put a big
10K generator head in line with the ADC to use for
regen. I put todays progress on my website. the link
is below. I will be ordering some more parts on monday
to continue. I hope to use this as part of my sizzle
reel to pitch my new show.
Gadget
http://reverendgadget.com/subpage3.html1.html
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Roger, I don't believe Chris was talking about battery just
> for drag racing application, but this doesn;t matter.
I can't locate his message at the moment, so I won't argue the point. I
~think~ this thread spun off from the drag racing battery discusison,
hence my impression that the contemplated goal was to build batteries
more optimised for drage racing than what one can readily buy.
> Peter summarized it much better than I could - if your
> "arguments" are valid, this would be done by now.
Nonsense. The fact that none of the EV drag racers has yet been
desperate enough for a high power battery to try building their own in
no way proves that it is infeasible to build a lead acid battery in
one's garage. There are any number of things that I *could* build in my
garage but haven't; the fact that I haven't attempted to build something
does not indicate/prove that I am incapable of doing so.
By your (and Peter's) logic, before the first guy converted an EV in his
garage, that was impossible/infeasible too. We know perfectly well that
it is completely feasible, even for someone who has not yet done so.
Look back to the turn of the century and you will find that
building/rebuilding lead acid batteries in one's garage (or the
equivalent) was pretty much de-rigeur.
> What's *your* excuse for not doing it?
I don't have an EV capable of utilising more current than I can get from
readily available batteries such as Hawkers, Optimas and Orbitals.
> Get serious.
I am absolutely serious Victor.
It is quite feasible to build a lead acid battery in one's garage, and a
clean room environment is not necessary. Period. You think it is a
silly idea, and that is fair enough, but that does not make it
impossible. Nor does the fact that no-one on this list has yet been
motivated to try building their own battery make it impossible.
I don't necessarily think that it is particularly likely that Joe
Sixpack is going to go out to his garage and build himself a drag racing
pack that has consistent capacity, resistance, etc. from cell to cell,
at least not on his first or second try, but I certainly believe that he
could build himself a pack.
This is why my message concluded with suggestions of lead-acid batteries
that are (or might be) commercially available that might address the
drag racer's concerns with the usual choices (namely peak current
capability/cell interconnect failure).
Another, also quite serious, suggestion is that rather than building a
battery from the ground up, if the concern is primarily peak current
capability and interconnect robustness, it might be more practical to
take a mostly suitable battery, like the 13 or 16Ah Hawker, saw the lid
off and beef up the cell interconnects to address their shortcomings,
and then reseal the battery.
Assuming, of course, that everything that has not yet been attempted is
not automatically subject to the Tikhonov Impossibiltiy Rule ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Why would Joe use a LowLY Zilla 2K when he has a Manzanita
> Micro Caveman 2500?
Well, I was under the impression that it was actually about 1800A (which
Joe seems to confirm). Either way, the real question was that since I
know he has a car that could use all (or nearly all) the amps the
Orbitals will deliver, could he be in a position to set a new record by
virtue of running a lighter weight pack and full amps?
Joe Smalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Those four optimas I ran two years ago were only putting out
> 34 volts as I crossed the 1/4 mile lights. The old Johnsons
> would be back up to 44 volts at the 1/4 mile point when I was
> running them.
So quit worrying about the 1/4 mile point already; at 48V only your
1/8th mile time counts anyway! ;^>
What sort of current were you loading the Optimas or Johnsons to at the
end of the 1/4?
> After I blew the controller a few years ago, I put a 1200 amp
> current limit in the controller. I have the option of turning
> it up to 1800 amps by changing one resistor. I have not
> exercised that option since I have not been able to use all
> 1200 amps that I now have.
Not use in the sense of not able to get it out of the pack, or not able
to get the motor to pull it long enough to make much difference to your
times?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The biggest difference I know of is that the Tigers had the Ford 260 or 289,
right? Maxwell Smart had one the first season ("Get Smart"), before he got
the Karmann Ghia.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: 1970s cars
The red car in the scene is a tiger, I have an Alpine,
it looks the same except it has larger tail fins with
a slight backward slope to the taillights.
Gadget
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Is the car Arnold uses in "Commando"
>(tears out the driver's seat with his bare hands)
>similar or was that a Tiger?
Since I happen to have that DVD.. Here are some
shots of
that car:
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/1779/commando16fm.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2355/commando26dv.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3087/commando35ji.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/6821/commando46sb.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/2921/commando56qa.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/4459/commando63ma.jpg
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I'm really enjoying this thread!
James Massey wrote:
> At 09:32 PM 11/02/05 -0800, Tim wrote:
> >Hi John,
> >
> >I'm thinking about something small, very light, rear drive, maybe even
> >direct driven, that would
> >look great with the right "look."
Exactly. I've converted newer cars and trucks, but compared to classic machines
from the
sixties and seventies, today's newer small cars and not-so-small trucks are,
well, a bit
boring. Front wheel drive is boring, jelly bean look-alike styling is boring,
2800-3200
lb. 'small cars' are boring, and interiors that are over-stuffed and over
styled, are also
boring.
In contrast, the early seventies small cars have styling that still looks hip
and fresh
today. Just ask any backwards baseball cap kid with a coffee can muffler
tricked out Honda
what his ultimate street import would be, and in an instant you'll here that
familiar
three digit name '510', as in Datsun 510. The Datsun 510 was classic looking
the day it
was put on the market, and from '68 - '73 it was a super sales success. Thanks
to ex Carol
Shelby cohort Pete Brock, the BRE racing 510s totally rewrote the 2.5 TransAm
Challenge,
where race prepped 510s were unbeatable and achieved legendary status.
I was at the 2005 Auto show recently, looking at all the colorful cool model
cars at a
brightly lit display and sales area. It was packed with older dudes and
dudettes as well
as the 18-25 year old import freaks. New this year, alongside the 55 Chevs,
muscle cars,
and T buckets, were dazzling hot import models like tricked out Eclipses,
tricked out
Honda Civics, Nissan Skyline GTs, etc., but it was the BRE styled 510 Datsun
models that
had the eye of all the young guys, and it was fun to watch them hold up the 510
model and
listen in to them talking about how someday, they'd find a clean 510, build up
a muscle
four banger, and smoke them rear tires!
I couldn't help myself, and jumped in to tell them about my sorted past with my
many hot
510's. At first, they didn't quite know what to think of this bearded older guy
talking
the import slang and all, but when I mentioned 'electric Datsuns', they kind of
freaked
out, as one started to go off about this insane little white 1200 he'd seen
blow off
muscle cars at PIR....what fun!
> Obviously the 1200's are hard to come
> >by nowadays.
Sadly, this is true. The Datsun 1200 was Nissan's cheapest economy car, a step
down from
the 510 aimed at first time car buyers. It quickly became a throw-away car, one
that at
$1795 brand new in '71, saw a rough life in the hands of teenagers, apartment
parking lot
mishaps (1200s pretty much never saw garages), and tow-away repossessions. In
general, it
was merely a bash around appliance type car. Few have survived their tormented
lives and
most are now a recycled memory. Still, there are nuts out there who love these
little
cars, and at the many, many Datsun club picnics and show & tell events around
the US, you
will still find nice little 1200s, often for sale, too.
> Can you recommend another car in the same league? I had a '77 Corolla that
> would
> >fit most of the bill, but I don't know if it would have the right "look".
Interesting that you mention the Corolla. Toyota didn't quite know what to do
about their
competitor, Nissan Motors, who back in the early 70's heyday, was kicking
Toyota's butt
with the Datsun brand of fun, good looking, great handling, spunky sporty
little cars,
minitrucks, and the 240Z. The Corolla served double duty in its two model
forms, the
Corolla 1200 and the Corolla 1600, the latter the most common that went head to
head with
the Datsun 510. The solid axle, pushrod engined, plastic faced slightly
over-styled
Corolla 1600 didn't have a chance against the venerable 510 with its chiseled
good looks
sporting a stainless steel trimmed metal grill, clean bodywork, independent rear
suspension, and an overhead cam feisty 1600 motor. Proof....today, no one
collects and
lusts after an early 70's Corolla, but 510s have cult status. On the other
hand, the
cheaper Corolla 1200 sedan was Toyota's low priced car that was their answer to
the Datsun
1200...again, no contest as the fun looking Datsun soundly outperformed the
smallest
engined Toyota Corolla 1200, even though they had the same displacement. The
Corolla 1200
is still a fun little car however, and at a trim 1740 lbs. or so, isn't too far
off the
Datsun's sub 1600 lb. mark.
The Corolla 1200 is a great car to convert to electric power, as it's roomy
under the
hood, comes with rear wheel drive, has room for four passengers, and is pretty
nice
looking once you put on some trick wheels. No, it's not as cleanly styled as
the Datsun
1200 sedan, but it's still way cooler than today's economy sedans.
An electric Datsun 510 would be super cool, especially one with lots of
performance
designed-in. Clean 510s are plentiful, though the really nice ones are
commanding high
prices these days. At 2100 lbs. they aren't as light as a 1200, but they are
much
sturdier, have independent rear suspension, and with a few after market and or
Nissan
Comp. parts thrown in, can out corner expensive sports cars. A Datsun 510 2
door with the
BRE fender flares filled with low profile rubber and classic American Racing 4
spoke mags,
lowered and fitted with competition front and rear sway bars, rock'n tunes, and
a Z2K,
twin 8's, and 240V of Orbitals could blow off pretty much any rice burner you
might
encounter on the streets, or for that matter, even a Camaro or Mustang that
might get in
your way!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
