EV Digest 4176
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by "prime" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by "prime" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: BB600 Purchase
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Spoon Feeding BB600's
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Peukerts for LI-Poly (was Re: Additional outside funding)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: BB600 A/A charging
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Rewinding 3 phase AC motors
by Mike Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Spoon Feeding BB600's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Nicad Disposal Options, used electrolyte
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Adapters: to anodize or not to anodize
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Spoon Feeding BB600's
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Those NiCads
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Rewinding 3 phase AC motors
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Nicad Disposal Options, used electrolyte
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Those NiCads
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Spoon Feeding BB600's
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: wind charger and BB600's?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Those NiCads
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Spoon Feeding BB600's
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Those NiCads
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Grizzly help needed please
by "evranger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: wind charger and BB600's?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: wind charger and BB600's?
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) RE: Spoon Feeding BB600's
by "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am thinking of getting 500 of them. I can pick them up in LA area. I
live in Ojai and have an F250. If we can work out shipping for under $1
each I will go for them. Lemme know and if you want me to do some research
I will check with local shippers.
Bill
805 646 8383
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tim Clevenger
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:55 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
Hi Gadget,
That works for me. That also takes the pressure off, since if
I picked them up in NorCal, I'd be hand-loading them into
a rented pickup. :-)
I'm not sure how many I'm getting. At least 70, possibly 140.
Tim
---------
> > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:37:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> I haven't made any shipping arrangements yet. but let
> me know how many are coming to LA and can get quote.
> I'm hoping that we can get the shipping below 1 buck a
> cell. weekend pick up is no problem as I live in my
> warehouse. I can even store them for a little while if
> that helps anyone.
>
> Gadget
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction I just bought 600 of them. I would like to share shipping with
the other lucky buyers in soCal. Welcome to my wet Nicad dream. :-)
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of prime
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:57 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
I am thinking of getting 500 of them. I can pick them up in LA area. I
live in Ojai and have an F250. If we can work out shipping for under $1
each I will go for them. Lemme know and if you want me to do some research
I will check with local shippers.
Bill
805 646 8383
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tim Clevenger
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:55 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
Hi Gadget,
That works for me. That also takes the pressure off, since if
I picked them up in NorCal, I'd be hand-loading them into
a rented pickup. :-)
I'm not sure how many I'm getting. At least 70, possibly 140.
Tim
---------
> > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:37:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> I haven't made any shipping arrangements yet. but let
> me know how many are coming to LA and can get quote.
> I'm hoping that we can get the shipping below 1 buck a
> cell. weekend pick up is no problem as I live in my
> warehouse. I can even store them for a little while if
> that helps anyone.
>
> Gadget
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I already have 500 cells to pick up.
How many are you talking about?
Maybe I need to rent a Uhaul trailer.
Any other interested parties need to chime in now
and I'll rent a Uhaul trailer and use my G20 van to
pull it into Akron.
Rod
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will be driving from Pittsburgh would that help?
> Mike G.
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
>
> >I just bought 250 cells and will either pick them
> up
> >in NY or have them shipped. If there is anybody
> else
> >near Akron, OH that is buying some let me know and
> >we can arrange combining the shipment.
> >Thanks,
> >Rod
> >--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>For those of you that can't get through, or those
> >>that are interested and
> >>haven't paid yet....
> >>
> >>I have set up a quick and dirty ebay listing
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3880658968
> >
> >
> >>search BB600 if the link doesn't work.
> >>
> >>
> >>You can use this to reserve and pay for the number
> >>of cells you desire.
> >>After all of the orders are in, then we will
> figure
> >>out the best way to
> >>ship them.
> >> There are quite a few people that have expressed
> >>interest and are only
> >>about 100 miles from each other, and obviously can
> >>save quite a bit on
> >>shipping costs by combining pallets. Each person
> >>will have the final say
> >>in how their order is to be shipped, but I will be
> >>able to suggest
> >>"partners".
> >>
> >>For those that planned to pay via my e-mail
> >>instructions, it will save me
> >>a few cents by not using ebay, but ebay will
> provide
> >>a nice "database"
> >>feature for me too, so I guess it's a wash. Use
> what
> >>you're comfortable
> >>with.
> >>
> >>I hope I've been able to reply to everyones
> >>questions. If not, hit me
> >>again please.
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>Stay Charged!
> >>Hump
> >>"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you
> >>are right!" --Henry Ford
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not me, just saying the interconnects are the hassl, and those who
bought the cells should all get together and make a big order on
braided interconnects for a volume discount...
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M.G. wrote:
How much are we talking?
Mike G.
Seth Allen wrote:
I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of the discharge test I did
of the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells, FWIW.
Seth
P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on cell interconnects, now
that you can order them in the thousands.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys , I have had considerable experience with this type of aircraft
NiCad I built an electric car and an electric moped with these cells
while in Thailand with the military way back in the 70s I had free
access to the culls from the nearby air base.
I still use the newer Saft 20 cell stainless cased batteries for
projects around the Physics dept. here in Reno. Yes they work and there
are some issues. On the moped I had 40, 34 ah cells ( easy to take care
of) these worked well 25 mph and it went quite a few miles, The car
worked too but they were a ROYAL pain with hundreds of interconnects and
* ALL* those little caps to water, I used a large plastic syringe with a
short plastic hose on it, it had a hole in the side of the hose at the
high water mark, I would put it in till it stopped and over fill
slightly then pull water back out till it sucked air through the side
hole. Still tedious!
Other problems were internal plate separator shorts that caused stinky
small fires and sometimes killed adjacent cells too. ( you may not have
this with new cells) Also they swell when charging, if the little rubber
sleeve is in the cap correctly, if not they just leak. They MUST be
restrained by a case or metal straps or they will ruin the terminal
seals and move all around in undesirable ways when they swell. Best of
luck Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ok, so I can't spell, and aparently can't even read the subject line.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Who is Puckert? Whas his nick name Puke?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I sent this question before but seeing this makes me wonder if you can
mount these not straight up and down? I'm not talking laying down or upsidedown
but maybe at 45 degrees or 30degrees? Maybe at works in a fighter because when
it's parked they are rightside up. Anyone have a manual for one of these which
says anything about orientation?
Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> I think that you should understand
a little more about what you have on
> your
> hands. These are not a typical nickel cadmium cell. They are
> manufactured to
> perform in very extreme environments as found on tactical (fighter)
> aircraft. They are designed to put out 1,000 to 1,800 amps per cell. The
> list price for these cells is $466 each. From your response I can see that
> you have done some research on basic, low cost, low quality, low drain,
> battery systems - these are not in that category.
I am starting to seriously drool here.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
By my tally that looks like 1080 cells so far. see
what you can get the shipping for. I've already sent
my money in to Hump. Cell count as follows.
400 Gadget
500 Bill
40 Roger
140 Tim
Gadget
--- prime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am thinking of getting 500 of them. I can pick
> them up in LA area. I
> live in Ojai and have an F250. If we can work out
> shipping for under $1
> each I will go for them. Lemme know and if you want
> me to do some research
> I will check with local shippers.
> Bill
> 805 646 8383
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am in the "discovery" portion of this project ;)
I plan on building my own inverter... I have a schematic around 50% complete,
most of the component selection done. I'm trying to find out what is feasible
on the motor right now; I'm thinking of just getting a 1 or 2 hp 3 phase AC
motor used, get the inverter working, then try to find the motor that I want to
put in my car.
Mike Barber wrote:
>This translates to a peak achievable hp of 513 at the motor shaft.
Now we're talking! :)
>Assuming 85% efficiency, this reduces to 436 hp.
Still a nice number...
Get that motor rewound and go for it!
By the way, which inverter are you going to use with it? What model
motor is this anyways?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the "made in china route" doesn't work out or we need them sooner,
perhaps we can make them here.
Are they are the 1/4 thick plates I see in the photo's? What material?
What I am thinkiing is buying a 4'x8' plate of 1/4" stock and having
them water jet cut.
I can get a quote if someone gets me a sketch. Any mix of shapes allowed
in plate.
FOB Fresno,Ca.
PS I'd like to "recycle" 500 surplus nicad cells, if that helps in
the shipping :-)
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 3/9/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
why use braided interconnects when the factory uses
solid ones? Making the solid interconnects would be a
cinch. Or if we have enough people we could job them
all out for a volume discount. I wonder what the
factory gets for them?
Gadget
--- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not me, just saying the interconnects are the hassl,
> and those who
> bought the cells should all get together and make a
> big order on
> braided interconnects for a volume discount...
>
> Seth
> On Mar 10, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M.G. wrote:
>
> > How much are we talking?
> > Mike G.
> >
> > Seth Allen wrote:
> >
> >> I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of the
> discharge test I did
> >> of the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells, FWIW.
> >>
> >> Seth
> >>
> >> P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on cell
> interconnects, now
> >> that you can order them in the thousands.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for this information Jay, I've been wondering about these issues
for a while.
What I'd still like to know is about the electrolyte in a dead Nicad cell.
Can the electrolyte be emptied (and neutralized, I imagine) and disposed
of locally, to reduce shipping for recycling? Is this a bad idea?
Further, would the electrolyte be useful, for example in a situation where
you needed extra for use in a simple watering system like Lee Hart
discussed recently? Does the electrolyte degrade as the battery ages, or
just the plates?
--chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Dear fellow Nicad-loving listers,
>
> When not playing EV'er, my day job involves finding proper homes for all
> sorts of garbage, so I wanted to make sure that we all know what to do
> when these NiCd cells eventually die, because the cadmium that they
> contain is hazardous when released into the environment, and should never
> go to an incinerator or regular solid waste landfill. Unlike lead acid
> batteries, the nicads do not have a positive scrap value, and there is
> only one facility in the country that I know of as the ultimate consumer
> of these cells; the International Metals Reclamation Company (INMETCO) in
> Ellwood City, Pennsylvania.
> http://www.inmetco.com/
> I spoke with their rep this morning, and INMETCO will accept shipments of
> dead flooded Nicads directly from individuals. The cost for recycling is
> $0.45 per pound. The nickel, cadmium, and any steel components are all
> recovered. The cadmium can go back into batteries and cadmium-based
> pigments, and the nickel and steel winds up in stainless steel
> manufacture. Plastic battery casings are commonly recycled into the
> common black polypropylene lead acid battery casings, but I'm not sure if
> this is 'the case' with INMETCO.
> Shipments can go direct, FOB INMETCO, or to one of their three
> consolidation points, 1) Wade Environmental Industries, Battery Division,
> Atco, New Jersey; 2) U.S. Filter Recovery Services, Inc., Roseville,
> Minnesota; and 3) Kinsbursky Brothers Supply, Inc., Anaheim, California.
> From these consolidation points the batteries are shipped to INMETCO.
>
> Shipping costs should not be any more than we're paying to get the cells
> in the first place, because under the EPA's Universal Waste Rule,
> batteries destined for recycling are not subject to most hazardous waste
> transportation regulations.
> When you have NiCd cells to dispose of, please contact one of the
> consolidators or INMETCO directly. INMETCO requires advance approval for
> inbound shipments and self-delivery, but they will accept prepayment over
> the phone via credit card to simplify the transaction for individuals.
>
> I'm still awaiting a response from SAFT, since they also have a recycling
> office. Contact info there is as follows: ... Saft America Inc., 711
> Industrial Boulevard PO Box 1886 Valdosta Georgia 31601 Tel : (229)
> 247-2331
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Jay Donnaway
> Sr. Solid Waste Policy Analyst
> Oregon Dept of Environmental Quality
> Land Quality Division
> 811 SW Sixth Avenue
> Portland, OR 97204-1390
> (503)229-6046
> Fax: 229-6977
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.deq.state.or.us
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got back from the anodize shop to get a quote on (and a quick
lesson) on anodizeing.
I have 2 prototype pieces of aluminum a motor bell and a tranny plate
There are 2 kinds on anodize
type II has ability to be brightly colored and offers some corrosion
resistance and only minimal scratch resistance
Hard anodize limits to darker colors because the "natural" looks like
titanium. It is twice the cost and more than twice the corrosion
resistance and adds a strong scratch resistant coating.
These can always be an option and at this writing the quotes are as follows
bell
typeII Hard
+$12 +$25 2 reds,2blues, purple,2 greens,clear,
gold
+$18 +$38 burgendy, black, clear(titanium), etc
What would you guys like ? plain least expesive Aluminum, some bright
colors for a nominal upcharge?, or a hard surface for a not so nominal
upcharge.
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If we need interconnects in the thousands then it
would be really cheap to have then die cut.
Gadget
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the "made in china route" doesn't work out or we
> need them sooner,
> perhaps we can make them here.
> Are they are the 1/4 thick plates I see in the
> photo's? What material?
>
> What I am thinkiing is buying a 4'x8' plate of 1/4"
> stock and having
> them water jet cut.
> I can get a quote if someone gets me a sketch. Any
> mix of shapes allowed
> in plate.
>
>
> FOB Fresno,Ca.
>
>
> PS I'd like to "recycle" 500 surplus nicad cells,
> if that helps in
> the shipping :-)
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release
> Date: 3/9/2005
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because they are easier to use, IMO and you don't risk damage to cell
connections.
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 8:57 PM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
why use braided interconnects when the factory uses
solid ones? Making the solid interconnects would be a
cinch. Or if we have enough people we could job them
all out for a volume discount. I wonder what the
factory gets for them?
Gadget
--- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not me, just saying the interconnects are the hassl,
and those who
bought the cells should all get together and make a
big order on
braided interconnects for a volume discount...
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M.G. wrote:
How much are we talking?
Mike G.
Seth Allen wrote:
I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of the
discharge test I did
of the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells, FWIW.
Seth
P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on cell
interconnects, now
that you can order them in the thousands.
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:45:32 -0800 (PST), Reverend Gadget
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>By my tally that looks like 1080 cells so far. see
>what you can get the shipping for. I've already sent
>my money in to Hump. Cell count as follows.
>
>400 Gadget
>500 Bill
> 40 Roger
>140 Tim
Is there anyone else in the southeast that might be interested in some
of these? I have a 15 ft cube van with a lift gate that we could use
to pick up a shipment from somewhere central and haul 'em around.
Split the trucking fee. I'm interested in some of these but I don't
think I want to go the trucking fee by myself.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
There's no way I'd have the time or money to work in these NiCads that
Hump is offering into my EV...but, I'm still really curious what
advantages/disadvantages they would have over regular lead-acid?
If this has been discussed - sorry. Darn digest is a love/hate
relationship.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:50:12 -0800 (PST), Mike Barber
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I am in the "discovery" portion of this project ;)
>
>I plan on building my own inverter... I have a schematic around 50% complete,
>most of the component selection done. I'm trying to find out what is feasible
>on the motor right now; I'm thinking of just getting a 1 or 2 hp 3 phase AC
>motor used, get the inverter working, then try to find the motor that I want
>to put in my car.
A couple of comments.
No one tries to wind a small motor like that with 6 gauge wire. If
that cross section is needed, the coil is wound with several parallel
conductors. I think the most I've ever seen at the shop where I
moonlight is about 8 approximately #12 wires in parallel. A single
wire won't fit through the slot, would be very difficult to handle and
would probably suffer stress fatigue from the vibration.
Core saturation will be a problem. You'll have to measure it, mot
likely, as the calculations are too rough to be relied on at the edge
of the envelope.
Take what Lee said to heart about the rotor. That is going to be your
limiting factor. There are companies whose business is supplying
custom rotors for special applications. Any decent motor shop will
know about those. You'll want the lowest possible resistance copper
welded rotor to withstand the thermal load.
The trade group for motor shops, EASA (Electrical Apparatus Service
Association) offers free motor re-engineering for their members. We
use it a lot. Tell the engineer what the new application is, the
desired voltage, power, etc and he'll model the motor and reply with
the specifics of winding. They have experience with thousands of
motors so their answers will work without a lot of trial and error.
Speaking from several decades of experience in designing motor
controllers, I recommend starting out driving resistive dummy loads.
Get your basic controller and drive electronics working into a
resistive load and only then deal with an inductive one. That will
save a LOT of "WTF is going on" with all the inductive crap flying
around.
Unless you enjoy seeing hundreds of dollars' worth of blue smoke waft
away in an instant, start out small and work up in increments.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:17:21 -0600 (CST), "Christopher Robison"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Thanks for this information Jay, I've been wondering about these issues
>for a while.
>
>What I'd still like to know is about the electrolyte in a dead Nicad cell.
>Can the electrolyte be emptied (and neutralized, I imagine) and disposed
>of locally, to reduce shipping for recycling? Is this a bad idea?
The electrolyte is simple potassium hydroxide, approximately the same
as lye. You can simply pour it out on the ground. In short order it
reacts with the CO2 in the air to form potassium carbonate, the
potassium version of common washing soda. Or you can neutralize it
with vinegar, sulfuric acid, etc, and flush it down the drain. Unlike
Pb batteries, the electrolyte does not enter into the electrochemical
reaction so there isn't any significant dissolved metal in it.
>
>Further, would the electrolyte be useful, for example in a situation where
>you needed extra for use in a simple watering system like Lee Hart
>discussed recently? Does the electrolyte degrade as the battery ages, or
>just the plates?
If the cell is not sealed, the electrolyte will slowly react with
atmospheric CO2 and be neutralized. When that happens, simply pour
out the old and refill with new. If the cell is sealed then the
electrolyte will last forever or thereabouts. KOH is so cheap, and
considering the difficulty in keeping CO2 away from it over the long
term that I'd not bother to try and save it. Just mix new when you
need it.
I have a 28 volt pack - someone told me it was a helicopter pack -
that I got mil surplus back in the early 70s. I've changed
electrolyte a couple of times. Still going strong. It came with a
shorting plug on the Canon connector. The battery is long term stored
fully discharged and shorted.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marginally better energy density than lead in the summer. Much better
than lead when cold. Will tolerate high current draw, unlike SAFT STM
high ENERGY blocks. Will tolerate overcharge well, will tolerate total
discharge well, unlike lead. Needs lots of little interconnects. A
hassle to water. Water usage is unclear. (Mine weren't bad at all)
Very abuse tolerant unless you fill them with water that isn't
distilled/ demineralized, etc.
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:06 PM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi Everyone,
There's no way I'd have the time or money to work in these NiCads that
Hump is offering into my EV...but, I'm still really curious what
advantages/disadvantages they would have over regular lead-acid?
If this has been discussed - sorry. Darn digest is a love/hate
relationship.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If we need interconnects in the thousands then it
> would be really cheap to have then die cut.
> Gadget
Seth made a good point about the flexible interconnect. A recent post mentioned
how these cells
like to swell with charging. If you get a lot of movement but use solid
connections it could
weaken and crack the housings. I saw his interconnects and they were pretty
nice and not to hard
to make. I was thinking of using the crimped copper option mentioned recently.
Flatten copper ends
onto stainless braid, dip the copper, drill a hole, a little heat shrink tubing
and you're done.
Good solid connection and some corrosion protection. Does stainless braid have
similar electrical
properties compared to strap connections?
I'd like to put together a 144 volt pack with as many as three strings for
range. I was thinking
about the watering issue and how to handle it. What about building small packs
of cells that could
be easily disconnected and removed from the car (with a lift), say 25 in a
pack. That would be a
block about 8.5" x 12.5" x 9". That way you could water them on the bench.
Could you use an
Anderson type connector on each pack or would that be too much loss/resistence
versus direct
wiring?
Dave Cover
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Gabe wrote:
>>On my E-scort, the end of the motor is not supported at all. It is bolted
directly to the bell housing of the transaxle. With all this talk about aft
mounts, should I install some sort of support or motor clamp type support?
This E-scort has been this way for years without any problems but I recently
upgraded to a larger controller and had to turn down the amps due to main
circuit breaker tripping. Need to upgrade this breaker<<
On my Rabbit Pickup the motor was not supported. I replaced the 3 tranny
mounts with aftermarket urethane ones and never had any problem. My
controller was a small one though, one of the rare DCP450's.
Paul G.
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Tim wrote:
>>There are shipments headed to;
Phoenix AZ,
Austin TX,
Los Angeles CA,
Vancouver WA,<<
I missed a WA buyer! Would the WA buyer please contact me? (reply onlist or
offlist) I am interested in NiCad's for my EV Buggy. The old Optimas are
dying fast (my fault on charging, and 5 years of winter storage.) The BB600
batteries are a bit tall, but I could work with that. Realistic discharge
current with good voltage (for at least the 1st 60% of capacity) would be
another - I need a solid 400 amps and would prefer a solid 600 amps to
better than 0.9 volts per cell.
I can get to Vancouver WA with my Pickup. I would need up to 110 good cells
(plus extras for testing and possible rejection.) Cell price info and
shipping estimates would help me decide (along with dimensions.) I'm all for
a NiCad pack!
Paul "neon" G.
P.S. - Gadget wrote:
>>400 Gadget
500 Bill
40 Roger
140 Tim<<
(if I'm in its about 120 or so for me) How many of these do we have to go
around? I just finially got myself a good job again so finally I can do more
than just drive my existing EV into the ground :-)
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Just a little correction. "Tolerate" is the wrong word to use to
describe the battery's behavior to total discharge. Total discharge
with the terminals shorted is the correct state for long term storage.
My experience with surplus aviation mil-spec nicads is that they use
very little water. In the application I use mine for (powering 2 way
radios) they use essentially no water.
That makes sense if you think about it. With the number of planes,
helicopters and such out there in the military, it would be an
impossible maintenance burden to have to water all those millions of
cells on a frequent basis.
John
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:20:14 -0500, Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Marginally better energy density than lead in the summer. Much better
>than lead when cold. Will tolerate high current draw, unlike SAFT STM
>high ENERGY blocks. Will tolerate overcharge well, will tolerate total
>discharge well, unlike lead. Needs lots of little interconnects. A
>hassle to water. Water usage is unclear. (Mine weren't bad at all)
>
>Very abuse tolerant unless you fill them with water that isn't
>distilled/ demineralized, etc.
>Seth
>On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:06 PM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Solder pot dipped braid is an option, but IIRC someone looked into this
a while back. Not as cheap as desired, but at qty 1000, it might be
more economical.
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:38 PM, Dave Cover wrote:
--- Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If we need interconnects in the thousands then it
would be really cheap to have then die cut.
Gadget
Seth made a good point about the flexible interconnect. A recent post
mentioned how these cells
like to swell with charging. If you get a lot of movement but use
solid connections it could
weaken and crack the housings. I saw his interconnects and they were
pretty nice and not to hard
to make. I was thinking of using the crimped copper option mentioned
recently. Flatten copper ends
onto stainless braid, dip the copper, drill a hole, a little heat
shrink tubing and you're done.
Good solid connection and some corrosion protection. Does stainless
braid have similar electrical
properties compared to strap connections?
I'd like to put together a 144 volt pack with as many as three strings
for range. I was thinking
about the watering issue and how to handle it. What about building
small packs of cells that could
be easily disconnected and removed from the car (with a lift), say 25
in a pack. That would be a
block about 8.5" x 12.5" x 9". That way you could water them on the
bench. Could you use an
Anderson type connector on each pack or would that be too much
loss/resistence versus direct
wiring?
Dave Cover
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So is tolerate not giving them enough credit or too much (I was hoping
to err on too little, as cell reversal obviously is what happens
shortly after zero voltage under load). I also got mine new @ 0 volts,
with shorting wires. And in 2 summers I never filled them with water.
But my usage might not be typical for a road EV. And I was pretty
careful when charging.
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:38 PM, Neon John wrote:
Just a little correction. "Tolerate" is the wrong word to use to
describe the battery's behavior to total discharge. Total discharge
with the terminals shorted is the correct state for long term storage.
My experience with surplus aviation mil-spec nicads is that they use
very little water. In the application I use mine for (powering 2 way
radios) they use essentially no water.
That makes sense if you think about it. With the number of planes,
helicopters and such out there in the military, it would be an
impossible maintenance burden to have to water all those millions of
cells on a frequent basis.
John
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:20:14 -0500, Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Marginally better energy density than lead in the summer. Much better
than lead when cold. Will tolerate high current draw, unlike SAFT STM
high ENERGY blocks. Will tolerate overcharge well, will tolerate total
discharge well, unlike lead. Needs lots of little interconnects. A
hassle to water. Water usage is unclear. (Mine weren't bad at all)
Very abuse tolerant unless you fill them with water that isn't
distilled/ demineralized, etc.
Seth
On Mar 10, 2005, at 10:06 PM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Here ya go ...
This table is supplemental to Auburn Component and Installation guide Rev6
February 6, 1998. Note that chassis ground wire color in harness is now
green rather than green/yellow.
Grizzly Harness Wire Color Definitions
Connector Pin # Wire Color Function Note
1 Red Controller Enable
2 Orange Throttle Pot
3 Yellow Throttle Pot
4 Blue Diagnostic + Leave unconnected
5 Green Chassis Ground Was Green/Yellow
6 Brown Low Power Mode
7 Grey Economy Mode
8 Violet Diagnostic - Leave unconnected
9 White Contactor Enable
Look carefully at pin insulator body of your new connector. It will have the
numbers 1-9 on it. Hook it up as described above.
Dave Luiz
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:59 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Grizzly help needed please
Hi all,
I just got an Auburn Giizzly controller to replace the smokeless curtis
(which replaced the smokeless cableform the car came with) on my Elektrikar
II.
I got the manuaul with it, but no low voltage connector. The pinouts are not
listed in the manual.
I bought a new connector, a 9 pin twist lock deal, it looks like this
o o o
o o
o o
Can anyone tell me what color wire goes where?
My students and I have put in alot of hours on this thing and we are all
anxious to get it on the road.
Thanks a million in advance,
Ben Hazel
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>From the photos that Philippe had it looked as if the connects were stamped,
>not cut. Stamping are relatively cheap and quickly done, depends on the
>quantity. We would need 2, one just straight with the connect holes and the
>other with a 'S' bend in it.
I am in Tucson and have ordered 300 from Tim.
Anybody else in my area? Phoenix?
Also somebody could 'design' (read reverse engineer) the watering system and
have in manufactured in a foreign country.
Rush
Tucson AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
> why use braided interconnects when the factory uses
> solid ones? Making the solid interconnects would be a
> cinch. Or if we have enough people we could job them
> all out for a volume discount. I wonder what the
> factory gets for them?
>
> Gadget
> --- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Not me, just saying the interconnects are the hassl,
>> and those who
>> bought the cells should all get together and make a
>> big order on
>> braided interconnects for a volume discount...
>>
>> Seth
>> On Mar 10, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M.G. wrote:
>>
>> > How much are we talking?
>> > Mike G.
>> >
>> > Seth Allen wrote:
>> >
>> >> I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of the
>> discharge test I did
>> >> of the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells, FWIW.
>> >>
>> >> Seth
>> >>
>> >> P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on cell
>> interconnects, now
>> >> that you can order them in the thousands.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
>
>
>
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At 07:32 PM 3/10/2005, Paul G. wrote:
I missed a WA buyer! Would the WA buyer please contact me? (reply onlist or
offlist) I am interested in NiCad's for my EV Buggy. The old Optimas are
There is more than 1 WA buyer.
I'm getting a few hundred to play with, and i'm just north of Seattle. (I
also have an F250 with a 4400 lb payload capacity...)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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I'm just north of the border by Spokane is anyone near there?
Seattle is a day trip if worse comes to worse.
Dave
>
> At 07:32 PM 3/10/2005, Paul G. wrote:
> >I missed a WA buyer! Would the WA buyer please contact me?
> (reply onlist or
> >offlist) I am interested in NiCad's for my EV Buggy. The old Optimas are
>
> There is more than 1 WA buyer.
> I'm getting a few hundred to play with, and i'm just north of
> Seattle. (I
> also have an F250 with a 4400 lb payload capacity...)
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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I have a concern that if they are not strapped down really well and you
use solid interconnects the terminals may suffer.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Reverend Gadget
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:33 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Spoon Feeding BB600's
If we need interconnects in the thousands then it
would be really cheap to have then die cut.
Gadget
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the "made in china route" doesn't work out or we
> need them sooner,
> perhaps we can make them here.
> Are they are the 1/4 thick plates I see in the
> photo's? What material?
>
> What I am thinkiing is buying a 4'x8' plate of 1/4"
> stock and having
> them water jet cut.
> I can get a quote if someone gets me a sketch. Any
> mix of shapes allowed
> in plate.
>
>
> FOB Fresno,Ca.
>
>
> PS I'd like to "recycle" 500 surplus nicad cells,
> if that helps in
> the shipping :-)
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release
> Date: 3/9/2005
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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