EV Digest 4178
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 9' ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) BB-600 Nicad charging
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: BB-600 Nicad charging
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 9" ADC end bell removal (was: aft mounting holes)
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NiCds in Europe (was: BB600...)
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
by "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: BB-600 Nicad charging
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: BB-600 Nicad charging
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 9" ADC end bell removal (was: aft mounting holes)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: 9" ADC end bell removal (was: aft mounting holes)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) E-scort was:Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: data acquisition kit info
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) NiCd transport inquiry
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Prius on the Calculator
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Any new EV cars for sale?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
All,
When I read this post from Mr. Brown it sparked a memory about my two ADC
big nine inchers being different, and after checking, here is the scoop:
The RX-7 has a 1992 vintage S/N 132 that has the pads, but they aren't
drilled, whereas the truck has a 2000 vintage S/N 1091 that is both drilled
and tapped. It reminds me of the transformer company I worked for in a
previous life that was shipping product that hadn't been QC'ed. The
production manager was fired when the owners figured it out!
Just another data point,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:22:44 -0800
>From: Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Yes, proper alignment of the motor in the car is important. Our 914 mount
>takes care of this issue.
>
>Ben, you may have a very early 9" motor. The first ones did NOT have the
>two mounting pads. If you have one of these, do NOT attempt to drill
>it. The metal isn't thick enough. Or you may have one that escaped the
>factory WITH the mounting pads, but not drilled. If this is the case, you
>can get away with drilling them. If you have a fax number, I can fax you a
>drawing showing exactly where the holes should be. Another possibility
>would be to see if there is anyone out there with a trashed 9" motor and a
>good end bell they would sell/give you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm very seriously contemplating picking up a couple of hundred of the
Nicads, but one thing is troubling me: The charging. I've heard a lot
of talk about *how* to charge them (const current, voltage threshold,
etc), but if I want to charge these reliably, what equipment do I use?
Can I use one of the PFC chargers? Would I have to babysit it?
Being that I'm handy with electronics, but I don't really want to design
and build power electronics, an electronically controllable charger
would be ideal. In fact, a PFC with a serial port and programmable and
readable current / voltage settings would be ideal. You could set the
current to level X, and the voltage well above the pack peak; voila!
constant current -- read the voltage until it reaches a point, then
reset your voltage/current parameters. Essentially, I want a CV/CC
power supply that's electronically controllable (as opposed to a knob).
How important is it to monitor individual cells? If you've tested your
cells and matched them well, how often do you need to check them?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> I now have my DC converter switched with the ignition and use an aux battery
> like normal people.
What are the advantages of using a aux battery besides having a backup
if the DC/DC dies?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two questions about the Nicad boxes:
1) Do the cells expand sideways as well as crossways? From your
description, it sounds like there was space for the all-thread between each
row, so I'm assuming that they don't expand sideways, and that space between
adjacent cells edges is okay.
2) If the box is under the hood with no fan attached, should the top be
left off the box during driving to allow gas to escape?
Thanks
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James H Wolfe
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:24 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: BB-600 Nicad Cells
There is a fellow EV'er here in Phoenix, Bill Mulgrew, that put together
3 strings of cells to make, IIRC, a 216V pack for his G-Van.
I have one of his bad cells and have been looking for just such a buy
for a while.
Things to keep in mind:
They must remain upright, after all they are a flooded cell, albeit
without a lot of liquid.
They must be confined to prevent them from swelling when being charged.
This may be why the Military builds them into a very sturdy metal box.
If they expand and contract it will break the seals around the small
posts which permits corrosion etc. It is also possible to crack the
case. Bill had his in a steel tray with 3/4" all-thread compressing each
'row' of batteries.
Nicads are 'gassers' especially at high currents. They gas on
Discharge and Charge. They use more water than a comparable lead acid
battery. Bill kept his charge rates low to prevent gassing and by doing
so gave up some of the capacity. This also got them out of balance quickly.
You don't want to let them get low on water, just ask Rod Hower's friend
that had a Saft pack in his Fiero.
The cell cap is recessed and doesn't have threads, just a quarter turn
lock rather like a two leaf clover. Easy enough to open with a tool, but
still a pain as the opening is then about 1/4" to mnaybe 3/8".
He tried different materials for interconnects and settled on Copper
bars sheared with punched holes. IIRC The connectors use a 10-32 screw
for the connection. Everything had to be plated to prevent corrosion.
Too much loss in too many connections for stainless. (He plated them
himself as he has a plating setup for his car restorations.)
They can be stored in any condition of charge indefinately. The military
stores them with the posts shorted together.
BTW: His 6000+ lb G-Van was tested at the GM proving grounds in Mesa and
got over 90 miles on a charge.. although this was to 0% remaining.
He finally gave up on the project.
Jim,
'93 Dodge TEVan w/ NiCd's
(12 years old and runs with the Big Dogs on the 101 at 65-70 Mph daily.)
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My take on this, is that if you have ever charged a string of Lead Acid
batteries you will find these NiCads much easier. They have less stringent
requirements and tolerate most "oops events" much more gracefully.
My main charger is a 20 amp motorized variac. I have planned on adding the
brains to it since I first bought it, but to be honest, with just a shutoff
timer it takes very little user input to get a decent charge. Once you are
familiar with your pack you can make a pretty reasonable guess at what
current to start out at and how long to let it run then forget it. A string
of light bulbs in series makes for an easy CC device, so for any type of
overcharge I just use the lightbulbs to set the current and adjust the
timer.
damon
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: BB-600 Nicad charging
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:11:56 -0800
I'm very seriously contemplating picking up a couple of hundred of the
Nicads, but one thing is troubling me: The charging. I've heard a lot of
talk about *how* to charge them (const current, voltage threshold, etc),
but if I want to charge these reliably, what equipment do I use? Can I use
one of the PFC chargers? Would I have to babysit it?
Being that I'm handy with electronics, but I don't really want to design
and build power electronics, an electronically controllable charger would
be ideal. In fact, a PFC with a serial port and programmable and readable
current / voltage settings would be ideal. You could set the current to
level X, and the voltage well above the pack peak; voila! constant current
-- read the voltage until it reaches a point, then reset your
voltage/current parameters. Essentially, I want a CV/CC power supply
that's electronically controllable (as opposed to a knob).
How important is it to monitor individual cells? If you've tested your
cells and matched them well, how often do you need to check them?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was all set to take the end bell of my 9" ADC today to get the holes
drilled and tapped, but had a bit of trouble figuring it out. Before I
break my motor, can anyone with experience taking these things apart
tell me what I'm doing wrong?
I removed the four bolts around the edge, and I was able to wiggle it
back and forth a little bit. I stood the motor on end and tried
lifting it straight off but ended up picking up the whole motor :/ As
far as I could see, the only thing attached to the bell was the comm,
and that looked like it should lift right out along with it. I don't
want to pry until I'm sure it's okay to do so.
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No more 106 or Saxo Victor they stopped production in 2002, there is still
citroën berlingo(2seats) and renault kangoo(5 seats) vans though.
Thre is no obligation for industrial batteries and to repeat there is
nothing cheaper/better than nicad for
EV use actually in France.
I had a call with Saft today about SAft NIMH HE modules, very interesting
but they can't make them at low cost because they don't have production line
like STM5 series, so HE series
http://www.saftbatteries.com/130-Catalogue/PDF/HE_NIMH.pdf
are hand made (like Li-ion though this one is not available at all, only for
prototyping) and waiting for an OEM order to start something bigger in
volume and so investment.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:51 PM
Subject: NiCds in Europe (was: BB600...)
> Thanks for the link Philippe.
>
> So Peugeot is allowed to keep making '106 with NiCd batteries no
> problem? I've heard they are *obligated* to find alternative.
>
> The sam with Saxo?
>
> Victor
>
> Philippe Borges wrote:
>
> > true for cadmium which is definitely crap (though quantities are low on
our
> > hobbyist's hands)
> > about nicad prohibition european law:
> >
> > nicad batteries use is prohibited in europe since 2004 except for power
tool
> > and industrial application batteries.
> > For power tools the law will be voted again in 2008.
> > For industrial batteries, which include electric vehicle ones, no
> > prohibition !
> >
> > you will find the whole text here:
> > http://ue.eu.int/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/envir/83236.pdf
> >
> > So they still are the best choice for EV batteries at the moment (imho)
but
> > don't forget nicad batteries must'nt be through away, they have to be
> > recycled !!!
> >
> > The actual li-ion are to dangerous in EV use so i'm negociating to test
new
> > Saft NIMH modules: 12V100Ah/C1 for 18kg and...no watering :^)
> >
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
> >
> >
> >
> >>With all this talk about NiCds, may be people know, but I wanted
> >>to mention that their use in OEM EVs has been banned in Europe for
> >>environmental reasons. Recycling or no recycling no OEM will
> >>be allowed to sell and EV with NiCd battery in it beginning of this
> >>year. Of course, this is because cadmium is nastier stuff than even
> >>gasoline.
> >>
> >>US enthusiasts perhaps couldn't care less what is going on in
> >>European OEMs, but I don't think they (OEMs) would impose
> >>such a hardship on themselves (many EVs already manufactured
> >>cannot be sold since NiCd is no longer legal) without good reason.
> >>
> >>If you do get to use BB600 or whatever, just remember it contains
> >>poison and please them as such.
> >>
> >>Perhaps Philippe or Jukka can comment on this situation better.
> >>
> >>Victor
> >>
> >>--
> >>'91 ACRX - something different
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Tim Clevenger wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi Gadget,
> >>>
> >>>That works for me. That also takes the pressure off, since if
> >>>I picked them up in NorCal, I'd be hand-loading them into
> >>>a rented pickup. :-)
> >>>
> >>>I'm not sure how many I'm getting. At least 70, possibly 140.
> >>>
> >>>Tim
> >>>
> >>>---------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:37:06 -0800 (PST)
> >>>>
> >>>>From: Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells: SoCal & NorCal group buy?
> >>>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >>>>
> >>>>I haven't made any shipping arrangements yet. but let
> >>>>me know how many are coming to LA and can get quote.
> >>>>I'm hoping that we can get the shipping below 1 buck a
> >>>>cell. weekend pick up is no problem as I live in my
> >>>>warehouse. I can even store them for a little while if
> >>>>that helps anyone.
> >>>>
> >>>> Gadget
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>__________________________________
> >>>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> >>>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you got it ;^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> If you look closely it looks like four sizes. the
> shortest; end to end, medium; side by side, longest;
> diagonally end to end, and the "S" shape diagonally
> side by side. although some may not need all three
> depending on configuation.
>
> Gadget
> --- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Lawrence,
> >
> > If you remember the photos that Philippe has of the
> > original bat box,
> >
> >
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
> > it shows 2 kinds of connects from bat to bat. One is
> > just a short straight run with terminal holes. the
> > other is the 'S' connector. The S connector is used
> > because of the configuration of the bats in the MIL
> > container, and I would hazard a guess that we would
> > find it useful.
> >
> > Actually if you look closely at the photo above
> > there is also a 3rd connector. In the photo there is
> > a diagonal connector in the lower right corner.
> >
> > I would hazard a guess that we would need all 3 of
> > them to cover all the connection possibilities that
> > we may encounter.
> >
> > The cost of tooling up a stamp die for any one of
> > the 3 configurations is negligible in terms of the
> > cost added to the piece if it is in a quantity
> > order.
> >
> > Rush
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> >
> >
> > > Uh you need a short and a long interconnect. I
> > have templates but it's not
> > > hard to make your own template. What's with the S
> > shaped interconnect?
> > > LR.........
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> > >
> > >
> > >> >From the photos that Philippe had it looked as
> > if the connects were
> > >> >stamped, not cut. Stamping are relatively cheap
> > and quickly done, depends
> > >> >on the quantity. We would need 2, one just
> > straight with the connect
> > >> >holes and the other with a 'S' bend in it.
> > >>
> > >> I am in Tucson and have ordered 300 from Tim.
> > >>
> > >> Anybody else in my area? Phoenix?
> > >>
> > >> Also somebody could 'design' (read reverse
> > engineer) the watering system
> > >> and have in manufactured in a foreign country.
> > >>
> > >> Rush
> > >> Tucson AZ
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:57 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> why use braided interconnects when the factory
> > uses
> > >>> solid ones? Making the solid interconnects would
> > be a
> > >>> cinch. Or if we have enough people we could job
> > them
> > >>> all out for a volume discount. I wonder what the
> > >>> factory gets for them?
> > >>>
> > >>> Gadget
> > >>> --- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>>> Not me, just saying the interconnects are the
> > hassl,
> > >>>> and those who
> > >>>> bought the cells should all get together and
> > make a
> > >>>> big order on
> > >>>> braided interconnects for a volume discount...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Seth
> > >>>> On Mar 10, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M.G. wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > How much are we talking?
> > >>>> > Mike G.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Seth Allen wrote:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >> I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of
> > the
> > >>>> discharge test I did
> > >>>> >> of the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells,
> > FWIW.
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >> Seth
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >> P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on
> > cell
> > >>>> interconnects, now
> > >>>> >> that you can order them in the thousands.
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 -
> > Release Date: 3/9/2005
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 -
> > Release Date: 3/9/2005
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 -
> > Release Date: 3/9/2005
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release
> > Date: 3/9/2005
> >
> >
>
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If we end up getting some cut for a group purchase, I would buy 120 or so.
-Garret
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 2:54 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
you got it ;^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> If you look closely it looks like four sizes. the
> shortest; end to end, medium; side by side, longest;
> diagonally end to end, and the "S" shape diagonally
> side by side. although some may not need all three
> depending on configuation.
>
> Gadget
> --- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Lawrence,
> >
> > If you remember the photos that Philippe has of the
> > original bat box,
> >
> >
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
> > it shows 2 kinds of connects from bat to bat. One is
> > just a short straight run with terminal holes. the
> > other is the 'S' connector. The S connector is used
> > because of the configuration of the bats in the MIL
> > container, and I would hazard a guess that we would
> > find it useful.
> >
> > Actually if you look closely at the photo above
> > there is also a 3rd connector. In the photo there is
> > a diagonal connector in the lower right corner.
> >
> > I would hazard a guess that we would need all 3 of
> > them to cover all the connection possibilities that
> > we may encounter.
> >
> > The cost of tooling up a stamp die for any one of
> > the 3 configurations is negligible in terms of the
> > cost added to the piece if it is in a quantity
> > order.
> >
> > Rush
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> >
> >
> > > Uh you need a short and a long interconnect. I
> > have templates but it's not
> > > hard to make your own template. What's with the S
> > shaped interconnect?
> > > LR.........
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> > >
> > >
> > >> >From the photos that Philippe had it looked as
> > if the connects were
> > >> >stamped, not cut. Stamping are relatively cheap
> > and quickly done, depends
> > >> >on the quantity. We would need 2, one just
> > straight with the connect
> > >> >holes and the other with a 'S' bend in it.
> > >>
> > >> I am in Tucson and have ordered 300 from Tim.
> > >>
> > >> Anybody else in my area? Phoenix?
> > >>
> > >> Also somebody could 'design' (read reverse
> > engineer) the watering system
> > >> and have in manufactured in a foreign country.
> > >>
> > >> Rush
> > >> Tucson AZ
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:57 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> why use braided interconnects when the factory
> > uses
> > >>> solid ones? Making the solid interconnects would
> > be a
> > >>> cinch. Or if we have enough people we could job
> > them
> > >>> all out for a volume discount. I wonder what the
> > >>> factory gets for them?
> > >>>
> > >>> Gadget
> > >>> --- Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>>> Not me, just saying the interconnects are the
> > hassl,
> > >>>> and those who
> > >>>> bought the cells should all get together and
> > make a
> > >>>> big order on
> > >>>> braided interconnects for a volume discount...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Seth
> > >>>> On Mar 10, 2005, at 6:04 PM, M.G. wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > How much are we talking?
> > >>>> > Mike G.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Seth Allen wrote:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >> I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of
> > the
> > >>>> discharge test I did
> > >>>> >> of the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells,
> > FWIW.
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >> Seth
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >> P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on
> > cell
> > >>>> interconnects, now
> > >>>> >> that you can order them in the thousands.
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > >>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 -
> > Release Date: 3/9/2005
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 -
> > Release Date: 3/9/2005
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 -
> > Release Date: 3/9/2005
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release
> > Date: 3/9/2005
> >
> >
>
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
without talking about ah counter which is comparable to best charge,
a "good" normal charge is :
constant current C/5
end of charge voltage = number cells X 1,65V
add:
time protection (capacity / charge current = charge time + 10% charge time)
temps protection: no charge if >35°C at start or stop during charge if
>=50°C
and its better !
"best" normal charge is:
constant current C/5
end of charge voltage:
cell Temp > 10°C >>>end of charge = number cells X (1,65V - (15mV X
deltatemp)
cell Temp < 10°C >>>end of charge = number cells X (1,65V - (30mV X
deltatemp)
exemple:
40°C give 40-10 = 30 X 15mv = 0,45V sooner end of charge per cell
For 100 X 1,2V cells (120V nominal pack) > end of charge at 40°C would be
(1,65V X 100) - (0,45VX 100) = 120V
time protection (capacity / charge current = charge time + 10% charge time)
temps protection: no charge if >35°C at start or stop during charge if
>=50°C
Note than delta-T/delta-t is not acceptable for end of charge on this cells
!
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 7:11 PM
Subject: BB-600 Nicad charging
> I'm very seriously contemplating picking up a couple of hundred of the
> Nicads, but one thing is troubling me: The charging. I've heard a lot
> of talk about *how* to charge them (const current, voltage threshold,
> etc), but if I want to charge these reliably, what equipment do I use?
> Can I use one of the PFC chargers? Would I have to babysit it?
>
> Being that I'm handy with electronics, but I don't really want to design
> and build power electronics, an electronically controllable charger
> would be ideal. In fact, a PFC with a serial port and programmable and
> readable current / voltage settings would be ideal. You could set the
> current to level X, and the voltage well above the pack peak; voila!
> constant current -- read the voltage until it reaches a point, then
> reset your voltage/current parameters. Essentially, I want a CV/CC
> power supply that's electronically controllable (as opposed to a knob).
>
> How important is it to monitor individual cells? If you've tested your
> cells and matched them well, how often do you need to check them?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the box has to be vented !!!
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells
> Two questions about the Nicad boxes:
>
> 1) Do the cells expand sideways as well as crossways? From your
> description, it sounds like there was space for the all-thread between
each
> row, so I'm assuming that they don't expand sideways, and that space
between
> adjacent cells edges is okay.
>
> 2) If the box is under the hood with no fan attached, should the top be
> left off the box during driving to allow gas to escape?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James H Wolfe
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:24 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: BB-600 Nicad Cells
>
> There is a fellow EV'er here in Phoenix, Bill Mulgrew, that put together
> 3 strings of cells to make, IIRC, a 216V pack for his G-Van.
>
> I have one of his bad cells and have been looking for just such a buy
> for a while.
>
> Things to keep in mind:
>
> They must remain upright, after all they are a flooded cell, albeit
> without a lot of liquid.
>
> They must be confined to prevent them from swelling when being charged.
> This may be why the Military builds them into a very sturdy metal box.
> If they expand and contract it will break the seals around the small
> posts which permits corrosion etc. It is also possible to crack the
> case. Bill had his in a steel tray with 3/4" all-thread compressing each
> 'row' of batteries.
>
> Nicads are 'gassers' especially at high currents. They gas on
> Discharge and Charge. They use more water than a comparable lead acid
> battery. Bill kept his charge rates low to prevent gassing and by doing
> so gave up some of the capacity. This also got them out of balance
quickly.
>
> You don't want to let them get low on water, just ask Rod Hower's friend
> that had a Saft pack in his Fiero.
>
> The cell cap is recessed and doesn't have threads, just a quarter turn
> lock rather like a two leaf clover. Easy enough to open with a tool, but
> still a pain as the opening is then about 1/4" to mnaybe 3/8".
>
> He tried different materials for interconnects and settled on Copper
> bars sheared with punched holes. IIRC The connectors use a 10-32 screw
> for the connection. Everything had to be plated to prevent corrosion.
> Too much loss in too many connections for stainless. (He plated them
> himself as he has a plating setup for his car restorations.)
>
> They can be stored in any condition of charge indefinately. The military
> stores them with the posts shorted together.
>
> BTW: His 6000+ lb G-Van was tested at the GM proving grounds in Mesa and
> got over 90 miles on a charge.. although this was to 0% remaining.
>
> He finally gave up on the project.
>
> Jim,
> '93 Dodge TEVan w/ NiCd's
> (12 years old and runs with the Big Dogs on the 101 at 65-70 Mph daily.)
>
> "Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Rich, I just saw your E-mail quoted in Mark Hanson's e-mail (below)... I
never got your message in my inbox. How strange. Anyways, responses below:
Mark Hanson wrote:
These two that died, were they on all the time?
Yes, mine was always on. But only because the converters were built to
be left always on, and they simply switched to a higher output voltage
when the ignition switch is on. I was told NOT to switch the main inputs
of the DCP DC/DC on and off with the ignition switch because doing so
would hurt the unit. And once again, I do have a 12 volt battery.
Mark Hanson quoted:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
Nick??
Want the Schematic to the DCP DC/DC???? I have it. Also the
>>Carnage is most likley under the PCB and on top of the heat sink.
Yes, if you can send me the schematic I would much appreciate it. I too
think the carnage must be under the PCB, as everything on and above the
PCB looks fine.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the library of charging profiles for NLG5
http://www.metricmind.com/library.htm I have couple of charging
profiles listed (and freely downloadable) for SAFT STM modules.
It will be trivial to adjust that for these BB600 cells per
SAFT's spec. I will post BB600 charging profile next week.
(this of course is directly useful to NLG5 users, and since
you all got all these cells for less than scrap value,
you can afford to invest in decent charger ;-)
I just looked at the required profile, it is quite complex to
execute properly manually. Yes, BB600 looks like reasonably
tough to take charging abuse, but looks like using a bad boy
is not the best idea...
I loaded SAFT STM100 pack profile it into the ChargeStar, and for
96V nominal pack it is listed as:
Phase1:
25A until 124V is reached -0.2%/'C gassing voltage compensated
(ref. temp is set to 30'C) and temp reduction method selected
is hysteresis 43'C ON, 45'C OFF, then switch to phase2
Phase2:
25A for 30 min OR until current drops to 12A while maintaining
124V (same temp compensation); whichever occur first,
then switch to phase3
Phase3:
12A for30min OR until current drop to 5A while allow 4V increase
(to 128V), whichever occur first, then switch to phase4
Phase4:
Put in 1Ah AND overcharge with 5% of total Ah you put in since
starting charging OR quit in 120min (time out if something
is wrong).
Done.
Emergency OFF conditions are set to:
Batt temp: 60'C (1 of any 3 sensors)
Batt voltage 160VDC
Amount of charge 120Ah
Charging time 72h
Granted, all of above is totally automated with NLG5.
And since it is isolated, people should have less issues
with ground faults with all these wet cells if watering
causes leakages. And, yes, it eats anything from
120VAC to 240VAC, with max power reduced at 120VAC.
I ended up almost sounding like marketing NLG5 chargers,
(BTW, BRUSA NLG5 is one of the SAFT approved chargers),
but the point really was to inform NiCd users of how properly
charge their batteries per SAFT recommendations, so
people is aware of challenge and plan accordingly.
What voltages packs people will be using? -
So I can scale values proportionally (volts and Ah), modify
per SAFT's spec for Marathon (BB600) cells if needed, save few
profiles for common pack voltages, and make them available
for download.
Will that be something people would like to have?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> I'm very seriously contemplating picking up a couple of hundred of
the Nicads, but one thing is troubling me: The charging. I've heard a
lot of talk about *how* to charge them (const current, voltage
threshold, etc), but if I want to charge these reliably, what equipment
do I use? Can I use one of the PFC chargers? Would I have to babysit it?
>
> Being that I'm handy with electronics, but I don't really want to
design and build power electronics, an electronically controllable
charger would be ideal. In fact, a PFC with a serial port and
programmable and readable current / voltage settings would be ideal.
You could set the current to level X, and the voltage well above the
pack peak; voila! constant current -- read the voltage until it reaches
a point, then reset your voltage/current parameters. Essentially, I
want a CV/CC power supply that's electronically controllable (as opposed
to a knob).
>
> How important is it to monitor individual cells? If you've tested
your cells and matched them well, how often do you need to check them?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you got the hex head bolts out, you should be ready
to pry. I had to do this operation to advance my
brushes (or was it retard them?)
Cancel that-- I did an 8" ADC, not a 9".
--- Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was all set to take the end bell of my 9" ADC
> today to get the holes
> drilled and tapped, but had a bit of trouble
> figuring it out. Before I
> break my motor, can anyone with experience taking
> these things apart
> tell me what I'm doing wrong?
>
> I removed the four bolts around the edge, and I was
> able to wiggle it
> back and forth a little bit. I stood the motor on
> end and tried
> lifting it straight off but ended up picking up the
> whole motor :/ As
> far as I could see, the only thing attached to the
> bell was the comm,
> and that looked like it should lift right out along
> with it. I don't
> want to pry until I'm sure it's okay to do so.
>
> Thanks
> -Ben
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben Apollonio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was all set to take the end bell of my 9" ADC today to get
> the holes drilled and tapped, but had a bit of trouble
> figuring it out. Before I break my motor, can anyone with
> experience taking these things apart tell me what I'm doing
> wrong?
>
> I removed the four bolts around the edge, and I was able to
> wiggle it back and forth a little bit. I stood the motor on
> end and tried lifting it straight off but ended up picking
> up the whole motor :/
Once you have the four bolts out, the only thing holding it on is the
bearing pressed into the endbell and onto the motor shaft. If you have
a tailshaft, you could lift up on the endbell while tapping on the end
of the tailshaft until the bearing slides free of either the shaft or
endbell. If you don't have a tailshaft, you can keep wiggling the
endbell while pulling on it, or pry gently.
> As far as I could see, the only thing attached to the bell
> was the comm, and that looked like it should lift right out
> along with it.
The comm is not attached to the endbell; the comm is part of the
armature. The armature will not lift out of the brush end of the motor
because the fan on the other end of the shaft is too large in diameter
to fit through the motor case.
Have you removed your brushes? You don't necessarily have to remove
them to get the endbell off, but it will make it easier to reassemble
things and eliminates the risk of chipping a brush during the endbell
removal.
Good luck!
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gabe wrote:
>>So I take it your motor is still not supported but you upgraded your
tranny mounts? My controller is a Curtis 550 amp, turned down to 400+/-.
Is this what your dcp450 does? <<
Yes, early Rabbits didn't have a motor mount it seems (the manual indicates
this, I have never seen one without the motor mount.) If your E-scort has
been running for years without a motor mount I think you have already got
some real world test data on the feasibility of the design. The DCP-450 was
good for about 400 battery amps and about 600 motor amps. The motor amps
caused me to consider stiffening up the tranny mounts, I don't know if that
was needed (urethane mounts do transmit some road noise back into the
vehicle.) So long as you can align the motor correctly (parallel to the
ground and perpendicular to the vehicle centerline) and don't go wild on the
power I don't see why you would have a problem now.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote:
> Lee (or anyone) awhile back you posted about getting a acquisition
> kit from www.mpja.com or Marlin P. Jones. I was looking at their
> 4-input 8418-KT, available for $55. I don't remember which one you
> talked about or in the end what you did with it.
Sorry for the late reply; it got buried in my IN box.
Yes, that's the one I have. It is actually 8 channels, not 4. I am
(slowly) working on a PC board that provides prescalers so it can
measure 4 voltages and 4 currents, and use its digital I/O to switch 4
chargers and 4 load resistors so it can cycle 4 batteries at a time. The
project is on the back burner at present.
> I am thinking about using opto couplers (for the isolation) set
> up to measure voltage on four batteries in a traction pack.
With this unit, you would have to add the optocouplers between it and
the PC. Straightforward, but it would take about a dozen of them.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry if this is a repost, but it didn't come through the first time:
I paid for 100 of Hump's NiCds through eBay and PayPal, but need to connect with
someone to arrange shipping - I'm in NorCal, about 30mi from Sacto and 50mi from
S.F., and would be on the way for anyone headed to WA or OR. Please contact me
at: cowtown @ spamcop.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another post that didn't show up:
I have added the 2004 Prius to the EV Calculator, but since it has a CVT, the
ratios are approximate, with 4th gear as a 1:1 input. Any other data would be
appreciated.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Toyota was selling Rav4s. Are they still?
Assuming you mean the Rav4 EV, then nope.
Shortly after telling customers that they couldn't make the Rav4 EVs fast
enough to fill all of their orders, California caved in on the EV mandate.
As soon as California caved in, Toyota cancled production claiming that
there wasn't enough demand.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am planning to use them in a g van. Can you get me in touch with Bill
so I can pick his brains? I am a grateful picker. If he is willing.
Thanks Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James H Wolfe
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:24 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: BB-600 Nicad Cells
There is a fellow EV'er here in Phoenix, Bill Mulgrew, that put together
3 strings of cells to make, IIRC, a 216V pack for his G-Van.
I have one of his bad cells and have been looking for just such a buy
for a while.
Things to keep in mind:
They must remain upright, after all they are a flooded cell, albeit
without a lot of liquid.
They must be confined to prevent them from swelling when being charged.
This may be why the Military builds them into a very sturdy metal box.
If they expand and contract it will break the seals around the small
posts which permits corrosion etc. It is also possible to crack the
case. Bill had his in a steel tray with 3/4" all-thread compressing each
'row' of batteries.
Nicads are 'gassers' especially at high currents. They gas on
Discharge and Charge. They use more water than a comparable lead acid
battery. Bill kept his charge rates low to prevent gassing and by doing
so gave up some of the capacity. This also got them out of balance
quickly.
You don't want to let them get low on water, just ask Rod Hower's friend
that had a Saft pack in his Fiero.
The cell cap is recessed and doesn't have threads, just a quarter turn
lock rather like a two leaf clover. Easy enough to open with a tool, but
still a pain as the opening is then about 1/4" to mnaybe 3/8".
He tried different materials for interconnects and settled on Copper
bars sheared with punched holes. IIRC The connectors use a 10-32 screw
for the connection. Everything had to be plated to prevent corrosion.
Too much loss in too many connections for stainless. (He plated them
himself as he has a plating setup for his car restorations.)
They can be stored in any condition of charge indefinately. The military
stores them with the posts shorted together.
BTW: His 6000+ lb G-Van was tested at the GM proving grounds in Mesa and
got over 90 miles on a charge.. although this was to 0% remaining.
He finally gave up on the project.
Jim,
'93 Dodge TEVan w/ NiCd's
(12 years old and runs with the Big Dogs on the 101 at 65-70 Mph daily.)
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--- End Message ---
