EV Digest 4345
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RPM Counters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: RPM Counters
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Home made charge question
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Mechanical PWM Controllers
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: RPM Counters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Mechanical PWM Controllers
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: The JeepEV, Zilla, and contactor
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: PFC-30 Charger (was RE: An update regarding my JeepEV)
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: SCR controllers?
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: SCR controllers?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: SCR controllers?
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: PFC-30 Charger (was RE: An update regarding my JeepEV)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: RPM Counters
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: SCR controllers? (drill controller)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Wanted: home made parts(
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Lithium chopper?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PFC-30 Charger (was RE: An update regarding my JeepEV)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: SCR controllers?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: Lithium chopper?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: SCR controllers? (drill controller)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Home made charge question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: possible DCP controller issue - help
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: SCR controllers?- GE EV1 and EV100
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) FL EAA & Grassroots EV Rally Pictures
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) An EV Made From Leftovers
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: The JeepEV, Zilla, and contactor
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Mechanical PWM Controllers
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Home made charge question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: SCR controllers?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft. What devices are
available to allow me to count the RPMs since I have no tail shaft to attach
to? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft. What devices are
> available to allow me to count the RPMs since I have no tail shaft to attach
> to?
Are you looking for something lower cost then this?
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/Zolox2.JPG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the more exciting things you can do with a homemade charger
is to connect it to a battery pack in the wrong polarity. This
will connect the rectifier diodes across the battery pack in the
forward-biased direction and short circuit the battery pack. The
result can be spectacular.
Use an Anderson connector or some other plug/socket setup which
can't be connected wrong to connect the charger to the battery pack.
If you use alligator clips it's just a matter of time until they get
accidentally conected backwards.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
I believe that arcing occurs when contact is broken rather that almost being
made.
Have you seen the non-conical perpendicular brush pair idea?
It has the advantage of less arcing.
If you are interested, I will send you a drawing.
(I wish I had thought of it first.)
I would like to see a motor/integrated mechanical PWM that self starts,
controls speed, and can go into reverse, all with a straight line push/pull
throttle.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mechanical PWM Controllers
On the conical Mechanical PWM that was being discussed, does the arcing
occur only as the brush gets close to making contact? In other words, once
any portion of the brush is touching metal, does the arcing cease?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
You should really get a tach hooked up.
I have a good aftermarket Tachometer, and it _used_ to be hooked up when
I first started driving my Jeep (with the Raptor controller and it's
optical sensor). However, eventually I began having tons of problems
getting the optical sensor to not screw up at low RPMs and make the
controller "surge"... so I ended up disconnecting the sensor.
When you throw it in 3rd, it might be dropping the motor to an absurdly low rpm.
If I recall correctly, when I had the tach hooked up, switching at 55
mph from 2nd gear (close to 5000 RPM) to 3rd gear would put me somewhere
around the 2500-2700 RPM range.
you'll be able to really rap out the motor and not worry about blowing
it up. Also the rpm limiter the Zilla has when you hook up the tach
adapter will protect the motor from being over revved, not to mention
the "stall detect" feature:
True, but I already know that 5000 RPM occurs at ~30 MPH in 1st gear,
and ~55 MPH in 2nd gear.
$42 for the speed sensor:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/accessories.html
When the bought the Zilla, Otmar informed me that the sensor wouldn't
work on my dual-shafted motor without some modifications... that's why I
didn't buy it then (I was hoping to make my own "sensor")
Where exactly is it leaking? The seal is most likely external and
easily replaceable.
In the worst possible place: the split case seal. See, this Peugeot
BA-10/5 transmission (only used in Jeeps from '87 to mid '88) is a split
case design, the split runs from front to back across the bottom of the
transmission. That is where it is leaking. :-(
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for something that doesn't need a tail shaft. The one you
reference looks like it mounts over the tail shaft.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RPM Counters
Bill Dennis wrote:
> I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft. What devices are
> available to allow me to count the RPMs since I have no tail shaft to
attach
> to?
Are you looking for something lower cost then this?
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/Zolox2.JPG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoops, I think I meant "cylindrical" not "conical". Sorry. I was
referring to the one that started this thread. It's cylindrical with one
wedge-shaped mates into another slotted piece.
I've also seen pictures of the commutator idea posted on the list, where the
brushes are moved close/further apart, if that's the one you mean.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu and Jan
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mechanical PWM Controllers
Bill,
I believe that arcing occurs when contact is broken rather that almost being
made.
Have you seen the non-conical perpendicular brush pair idea?
It has the advantage of less arcing.
If you are interested, I will send you a drawing.
(I wish I had thought of it first.)
I would like to see a motor/integrated mechanical PWM that self starts,
controls speed, and can go into reverse, all with a straight line push/pull
throttle.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mechanical PWM Controllers
On the conical Mechanical PWM that was being discussed, does the arcing
occur only as the brush gets close to making contact? In other words, once
any portion of the brush is touching metal, does the arcing cease?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Ryan Bohm wrote:
So here's my theory - you pull big amps, your pack voltage drops, the
output of your DC/DC drops, the draw on your 12V system increases (I
think my MR2 pump is the killer), and the 14V SLI input of the Zilla
sees less than it's low-value tolerance. So the Zilla basically
shuts down, the main contactor opens, and there you are without
power.
I still don't think my problem has anything to do with my 12 volt system.
True, the first two times the problem happened to me I had a DC/DC
converter and was using my MR2 P/S pump. However, this was my DCP unit,
which worked as low as 96 volts input. My pack _never_ drops below 115
volts absolute worst case, so the DC/DC was always on.
But even more telling is that the two times I was doing testing and
successfully got the problem to occur, I *didn't* have a DC/DC converter
installed; had my MR2 P/S pump *disconnected*; and my 12 volt system
*didn't* appear to ever drop below 12 volts.
Something that I forgot to mentioned here is that this one fuse I have
in the wire that goes from the "always hot" side of the main contactor
to the "Battery +" input on the hairball always blows when the problem
occurs. The usual errors that showed up were (in the following order):
1123 - Power Section Failed test
1141 - Main Contactor High Resistance
1231 - Propulsion Pack open, No Contactor Drop, and Controller is
Not Responding.
Otmar - I'd be interested in the text
of your replies to Nick on this issue.
FYI, Most of our conversations were via phone...
Anyways, I think I finally figured out what's causing all this. I want
to wait until I've done more testing tomorrow to report back...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Don Cameron wrote:
You are correct, the finishing stage does take longer than the bulk stage.
Hmmm... Mine hasn't been (charger shuts off)
As you suspected, the timer just shut off the charger before finishing was
complete. Here is what I did to figure out the correct timer setting for
the New Beetle:
I've verified with the manual that the setting is set to "8 - 80
minutes". Why the timer won't give me the length of time I've asked it
to is what's bothering me...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
A buddy of mine came up with this:
Take a speed controller from a variable speed dc drill.
Use the controller to control a high voltage high current IGBT.
Done!
Stu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: SCR controllers?
mike golub wrote:
> Is it worth using a SCR motor controller, if you are just starting
> to get involved with your first ev project, and you don't want to
> spend too much money?
SCR controllers are an older, simpler technology. Noisier and a little
less efficient, but if you can get one used for a good price, they'll
work fine.
> Do they work OK with the advanced DC 9" motors?
Yes.
> Are there any brands or model #'s known?
Lots of people made them; GE, Cableform, Sevcon, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What's IGBT?
Can this do the 9" Advanced motor?
--- Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee,
>
> A buddy of mine came up with this:
>
> Take a speed controller from a variable speed dc
> drill.
>
> Use the controller to control a high voltage high
> current IGBT.
>
> Done!
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:04 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: SCR controllers?
>
> mike golub wrote:
> > Is it worth using a SCR motor controller, if you
> are just starting
> > to get involved with your first ev project, and
> you don't want to
> > spend too much money?
>
> SCR controllers are an older, simpler technology.
> Noisier and a little
> less efficient, but if you can get one used for a
> good price, they'll
> work fine.
>
> > Do they work OK with the advanced DC 9" motors?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Are there any brands or model #'s known?
>
> Lots of people made them; GE, Cableform, Sevcon,
> etc.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hereis a Powerex IGBT # CM600HA-24H, 1200Volt, 600Amp transistor NOS never
used still in static shielding bags this item list for around $400.00 apiece
but get it here for alot less! guarenteed to work! here is some information
from a surplus equipment site selling for $291.00 each (see here)! (mine
are new and never used ! )Here are some features/ Low Drive Power / Low VCE
(sat) / Discrete super fast recovery (135ns) free-wheel diode / High
frequency operation (20-25kHz/ Isolated Baseplate for Easy Heat Sinking/ and
some Applications are AC Motor Control/Motion/Servo Control / UPS / Welding
Power Supplies/ Laser Power Supplies, To download a full specification sheet
(PDF) from the manufacturer's web site, click here. shipping and handling
is $10.00 u.s. shipped the day payment is made if possible or within 48
hours! money order/paypal/check is fine , i alsowill have more of these
available THANKS!
Ebay Item number: 7513195423
And
EUPEC IGBT (INSULATED GATE BIPOLAR TRANSISTOR)
IHM 190X140 1700V, 1800A SINGLE
NEW IN BOX, WITH MOUNTING BOLTS.
Model641-FZ1800R17KF6C-B2
Four (4) Available. Next Ebay item
Just search IGBT and you will see photos and descriptions
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: SCR controllers?
What's IGBT?
Can this do the 9" Advanced motor?
--- Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee,
>
> A buddy of mine came up with this:
>
> Take a speed controller from a variable speed dc
> drill.
>
> Use the controller to control a high voltage high
> current IGBT.
>
> Done!
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:04 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: SCR controllers?
>
> mike golub wrote:
> > Is it worth using a SCR motor controller, if you
> are just starting
> > to get involved with your first ev project, and
> you don't want to
> > spend too much money?
>
> SCR controllers are an older, simpler technology.
> Noisier and a little
> less efficient, but if you can get one used for a
> good price, they'll
> work fine.
>
> > Do they work OK with the advanced DC 9" motors?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Are there any brands or model #'s known?
>
> Lots of people made them; GE, Cableform, Sevcon,
> etc.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Give Rich a call. Not only will he get it working, he is fun to talk to.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Viera
Sent: May 7, 2005 2:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PFC-30 Charger (was RE: An update regarding my JeepEV)
Hi,
Don Cameron wrote:
> You are correct, the finishing stage does take longer than the bulk stage.
Hmmm... Mine hasn't been (charger shuts off)
> As you suspected, the timer just shut off the charger before finishing
> was complete. Here is what I did to figure out the correct timer
> setting for the New Beetle:
I've verified with the manual that the setting is set to "8 - 80 minutes".
Why the timer won't give me the length of time I've asked it to is what's
bothering me...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:44 AM 7/05/05 -0600, Bill Dennis wrote:
I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft. What devices are
available to allow me to count the RPMs since I have no tail shaft to attach
to? Thanks.
Hi Bill (and all)
More information needed:
Are you using a gearbox? Without clutch? Then a target piece could be
placed on the gearbox input shaft, sensor of your choice.
Are you using a clutch? If so you may be able use a proximity switch to
count part of the clutch plate assembly as it goes past. Alternatively you
may be able to bolt targets onto the flywheel using the clutch assembly bolts.
Is there space behind the tail end of the motor? and is the end of the
motor shaft exposed? You could put a refective tape section on the end of
the motor and use an optical sensor looking at the end of the motor. Or
glue a symmetrical shaped target onto the end of the shaft to provide two
quadrants in a steel target for a proximity switch.
Alternatively it would be possible to change the rear bearing to one that
has the same outside diameter, but a bigger inside diameter. This would
allow for a tubular piece to be made that fits over the end of the motor
shaft, that you could make/have made with target castellations on the
exposed part. As long as you are not pulling any power off such a piece a
press-fit is all the holding needed. The rear plate hole (if it has one)
would need to be made big enough to clear the new tail piece.
I favour using industrial inductive proximity switches to detect steel (or
aluminium with reduced sensitivity) parts moving past. Yes, they are not
the cheapest sensor by a long shot. But they are waterproof, dust and dirt
proof, no optics to keep clean, mo magnets to bolt in. And robust? well,
rallycars count the wheel-studs going by... doesn't come much more worse
than that!. The installed cost of a proximity switch should be no more than
any other means, apart from a manufacturers' designed-in system (ie if the
manufacturer made a part to do the job on this motor, that should be the
cheapest way).
Just my $0.02
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:23 PM 7/05/05 -0400, Stu wrote:
A buddy of mine came up with this:
Take a speed controller from a variable speed dc drill.
Use the controller to control a high voltage high current IGBT.
Done!
Not done, where do you get the isolated low-voltage from to power the drill
controller?
Since there is no current limit, you need a high-voltage, high current
insulated-gate bipolar transistor that can handle the short-circuit current
of the battery pack. Well, actually not quite that bad, the current that
the batteries can deliver into a stopped motor.
Awesome acceleration! until the motor or the batteries fireball. Or the
drill controller locks on and you can't stop.
And the price of a suitable IGBT? about the cost of a Zilla.
But this may be a good way to get a cheap control for a 24V bike or
scooter, if you have a drill and a suitable IGBT laid around.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:34 AM 7/05/05 -0700, mike golub wrote:
Besides making your own shunts, what other "home brew"
plans are available?
I was wondering about the battery charger, as well as
the motor controllers.
Thanks!
Hi Mike (and all)
From someone who has the strongest tendency to DIY imaginable, for most
things in a full-sized EV, it is not worth the risk to build most things
from scratch.
That said, the next best thing to DIY, is scrounge and make-do. That is
where it gets fun. 144V system? wreck a 72V forklift and put two contactors
in series to get the voltage rating on the contacts. Control a boost/buck
transformer to trim rectified (US) mains to control the charging.
Motor from a forklift, with modification (and buy a Zilla controller to
look after it with the money saved). Or use a robust motor such as a 9" and
build your own controller.
Find your local industrial junk dealers and haunt their yards. I have
acquired: Fuses, fuse holders, copper bar, cable, heatshrink tubing, amp
and volt meters, current shunts, motors, fans, auxiliary relays, relay
bases, cable glands, Industrial terminals, GE EV1 (SCR) controller,
contactors, traction battery chargers.
In addition I could have had: rubber sheet (to go under the batteries),
fibreglass boxes (to make battery boxes from), traction batteries (the
heavy long-life type) and other stuff.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip Gribben wrote:
> We have to get away from hiding electric motors and
> components in simulated motorcycle engines and gas tanks.
>
> I've done a couple hubmotor bicycle chopper projects with
> neon lights that look pretty cool without going for the "V" look at:
>
> http://www.skootercommuter.com
>
> So I want to see someone build a real ELECTRIC chopper.
> Integrate the electrics as part of the design. Make some cool
> cooling fins for the motor and controller that go with the
> design of the bike. Do something interesting with the frame
> and fairings. Work with the parts instead of hiding them.
Hi Chip,
I agree to an extent, but I have no desire to see an electric chopper. You
have to remember that Harleys in general and choppers in particular are a
religion. Rational thought and aesthetic sense take a back seat to
devotion. If you try to build a chopper by emphasizing the electrical bits
instead of a God-fearing V-twin engine, well, you might do better putting
Mickey Mouse ears on the pope.
People have tried it and received a favorable response. But only because
the responders see it as a joke, or at least not a threat to the "real
thing". When has anyone seen the chopper crowd respond favorably to a
chopper-style EV that they took seriously?
IMHO, making any two-wheel EV resemble a chopper is a mistake. Think about
it. The whole chopper concept is absurd. The fact that they are vehicles
at all is only incidental. Their purpose in life is as an icon, a medium
for artistic expression, a means to project an image. As motorcycles they
are truly wretched.
This is not to say that EVs must only be seen as functional and no
customizing is acceptable. People will always express themselves through
their vehicles. But what should we express? For me, it makes sense to stop
thinking like Badass Biker Bart and start thinking more like Luke Skywalker.
A modern custom EV motorcycle could be as wild as you like. Look forward.
Choppers are sooooo 20th century.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Give Rich a call. Not only will he get it working, he is fun to talk to.
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
Darn tootin', never underestimate the entertainment value of a conversation with
the Madman!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Ebay Item number: 7513195423
>
> And
>
> EUPEC IGBT (INSULATED GATE BIPOLAR TRANSISTOR)
> IHM 190X140 1700V, 1800A SINGLE
> NEW IN BOX, WITH MOUNTING BOLTS.
> Model641-FZ1800R17KF6C-B2
> Four (4) Available. Next Ebay item
>
> Just search IGBT and you will see photos and descriptions
>
> BoyntonStu
>
Why not just buy the 72V/1000A controller from LogiSystems at the "referred by
Bob Lemke" price of $490? Then you don't have to build something that may or
may not work *and* you get a warrantee, which is worth a lot.
P.S. - Other than those referred by the Voltage Forum, have any experienced
EVers contacted these folks:
LogiSystems
9910 West 64th Street
Odessa, Texas 79764
Phone (432) 381-6000
Fax (432) 381-6001
no website - they need to do this!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:13 AM -0700 on 5/5/05, Roger Stockton wrote:
Michael Hurley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The big black box at the front looks like a Brusa charge
Close; it is a charger, but a Zivan NG1, not a Brusa.
Heh. You're right. You know, I was even thinking NG1, but I was
thinking that was a Brusa model. Of course, Brusa's models are all
NLGx, not NGx. Oops!
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quoting James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
At 05:23 PM 7/05/05 -0400, Stu wrote:
A buddy of mine came up with this:
Take a speed controller from a variable speed dc drill.
Use the controller to control a high voltage high current IGBT.
Done!
Not done, where do you get the isolated low-voltage from to power the drill
controller?
TAKE YOUR DRILL, REMOVE MOTOR, MOUNT BATTERY AND TRIGGER SWITCH, IS A POSSIBLE
SOLUTION FOR AN ISOLATED LOW-VOLTAGE SOURCE. IT WOULD OUTLIVE YOUR BATTERY
CHARGE.
Since there is no current limit, you need a high-voltage, high current
insulated-gate bipolar transistor that can handle the short-circuit current
of the battery pack. Well, actually not quite that bad, the current that
the batteries can deliver into a stopped motor.
Awesome acceleration! until the motor or the batteries fireball. Or the
drill controller locks on and you can't stop.
And the price of a suitable IGBT? about the cost of a Zilla.
NOT ON EBAY OR SURPLUS. HOW MUCH FOR AN 1,800 AMP CONTROLLER?
BOYNTONSTU
But this may be a good way to get a cheap control for a 24V bike or
scooter, if you have a drill and a suitable IGBT laid around.
James
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--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
>
> One of the more exciting things you can do with a homemade charger
> is to connect it to a battery pack in the wrong polarity. This
> will connect the rectifier diodes across the battery pack in the
> forward-biased direction and short circuit the battery pack. The
> result can be spectacular.
...as a bonus, you will also discover why it is a mistake to use an
automotive blade fuse or 250v AC-only rated fuse in the output!
Thus, you need a fuse in series with the output that is rated for a DC
voltage at least as high as your pack voltage.
> Use an Anderson connector or some other plug/socket setup which
> can't be connected wrong to connect the charger to the battery pack.
> If you use alligator clips it's just a matter of time until they get
> accidentally conected backwards.
More good advice! Been there, done that! :-( Now I have Anderson
connectors on my chargers.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On May 4, Bob Bath wrote in the thread "Re: DANGIT!
> Old 600A Raptor
> let the smoke out.today":
>
> > If anyone is keeping count, I'm another customer
> now
> > to upgrade the 600A Raptor to a 1200 Peter
> Senkowski
>
> To a what? Is some one repairing DCP controllers at
> this time?
Peter Senkowski bought the remainder of the Sparrows.
He needed controllers, so is paying DCP to make 1200A
Raptor controllers. He's under "Myers Motors," # is
area code 707. I have the rest of it somewhere around
if you need it. He's coming up to DCP to pick up/drop
off parts, so that's how my controller will be
retrofitted (600A case with a 1200A controller).
I have
> a hunch that the DCP 450 in the Rabbit Pickup may
> need some work. What
> started as a stutter turned into a no-go after the
> owner went over some
> rough railroad tracks way to fast.
>
> I'll suggest she try disconnecting the rpm sensor
> first, and if that
> doesn't work (and its unlikely to) plug it back in
> and check the small
> connections to the DCP (make sure the wires are in
> place and that it is
> staying plugged in.) If that is all good she may
> need to have to get
> the connections between the control board and power
> board redone. We
> have already gone over throttle linkage function and
> throttle
> adjustment.
>
> Does my analysis of the situation sound correct?
Those are all good places to start, but I didn't know
Raptors were ever made in a 450A configuration.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do.
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> EV list member Rod Howard is an expert on the EV100
> controller, as he did a lot of the
> design work on the LX version, I believe...Rod?
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
I only worked at GE for 3 years but know the history
of this control. Dr. Bud Konrad was the brains behind
this control and had a technician named Joe Lambert
under the wings. Joe started winding motors at GE
while he earned his degree. He worked his way up
through the ranks until he became a senior engineer.
Most of the forklift controls that made GE profitable
where created by Bud and Joe. Joe still works at GE
and is close to retirement. He designed the EVT100
(transistor replacement for the EV100), the Club Car
shunt control on thousands of golf carts, the GEM
control on NEV's, the TEVan motor control and many
other EV's. Joe was a mentor and inspiration in my
engineering career. I designed many offshoot's from
Joe's controls including a dual motor forklift control
with regen and field weakening, a shunt control for
electric greensmowers (that was later patented), a
shunt control for Taylor Dunn delivery trucks and
battery charger controls for the Chrysler TEVan,
including NiCd, NiFe and lead acid batteries. I drove
a TEVan as my personnal vehicle for 2.5 years while I
worked at GE. Joe was my next door neighbor but never
drove one himself as a personnal vehicle (go figure?).
Anyhow, the EV100 SCR control is one of the most
robust for forklifts. It is now a dinosaur and will
probably become extinct with Joe's career at GE.
Best wishes to Joe in his retirement!!!
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Everyone,
I got the pictures posted from the EV Rally here in Fl last weekend. They
are on the Florida EAA website under "Photo Album" --> "Events Gallery" -->
"EV Rally April 2005" ( http://www.floridaeaa.org )
It was a great time, thanks to Steve Clunn for hosting it and to everyone
else who made it out with their EV's!!!
FYI, the Rally/Meeting minutes can be found on the website in the Forum,
under "Events & Meetings".
Thanks,
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida Electric Auto Assoc.
http://www.floridaeaa.org
Custom Honda Electric Motorcycle 72V
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
A local EVer is trying to put together a simple beginner EV from a rather
interesting collection of used EV parts. The chassis is a 1981 Rabbit that
was formerly a South Coast Technologies EV conversion. The original
compound wound motor and electronics were removed by the previous owner,
but the upgraded suspension and battery box are still in place. The "new"
motor is a 9" GE from a Bradley GTE. There is also a leftover GE EV1
controller from a Jet 007 that he would like to use as well. I also have
repairable Bycan charger that may also become part of the project. The
plan is to go with eighteen 6 volt flooded batteries as the battery boxes
were designed for that. Does this sound like a good combo? My concern is
the controller, the Jet was 120 Volt system while the Rabbit was only setup
for 108 Volts. Will the controller be happy at the reduced voltage? I
think Jet used the same controller in their 108 Subaru vans and the 96 Volt
Escorts, but I would like to be sure.
The intended use is just a local use vehicle, no high speeds or excessive
range demands, 45 mph and 25 miles is more than enough. I suspect this
combo should be able to do much better than that. Any other opinions?
BTW, if anyone can put there hands on a motor coupler and adapter plate
from a Jet 007, it would be quite helpful.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" > Something that I forgot to mentioned here is that this
one fuse I have
in the wire that goes from the "always hot" side of the main contactor to
the "Battery +" input on the hairball always blows when the problem
occurs. The usual errors that showed up were (in the following order):
Now this sounds like maybe the contactor points are dirty , or somthing
along these lines , the heavy current goes down the small b+ wire
steve clunn
Anyways, I think I finally figured out what's causing all this. I want to
wait until I've done more testing tomorrow to report back...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was entertaining the conical design until I started looking at the
cost of copper. I have returned to the phased design and am searching
for a suitible commutator.
I came to the conclusion that they are eletrically the same anyway. I
had confused my self earlier.
The other concern was that I would only have 1/2 the brush area of a
correspondingly sized motor, but since 2 poles are neg and 2 poles are
positive it still works out to 8 neg brushes and 8 positive brushes, so
the design seems sound. The potential between brush sets can be high so
an insulator plate will go between them.
There are no shorting coils to cause under the brush arcs like in the
motor and the externally mounted freewheel diodes will minimize the edge
sparking on exit. The inductance of the motor averages the current so
the difference should be minimized during initiation of the pulses. The
problem is that the potential difference will be higher. There are so
many variables to matching the brush material and spring pressure to
match the sparking necesaary to get the all important film that I think
building it and trying it is gonna be the best way. A big worry is that
the mechanically slow switching speed may cause the longer duty cycles
to appear as a short, either requiring more inductance or a faster
commutator rpm.
I suppose a cap could minimize arcing of the approaching contact, but I
think we need that arc!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted...
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Home made charge question
> Hi all,
<snip>
> How do I size the variac and bridge rectifier (which is also a shotsky
diode?)? Does the variac have to be sized to the Pack V? If so, how do I
add batteries later to increase pack V, oversize the Variac now?
Make sure the diode is rated for the maximum pack voltage you intend to
charge. The diode needs to be rated for as much as the 1 minute rate on the
variac.
> How do I make it adjustable for 110 V and 220V input? Will the variac
handle it?
You will need a 240 input variac to use it on 240 VAC. A 120 VAC variac can
be used on half of the 240 and make it a [0 to 140 VAC] or a [120 to 260
VAC] input to the rectifier but you will need to flip a switch for each
configuration.
> Joe Smalley said to put a V meter and fuse between the Variac and Bridge,
and also a A meter and fuse between the rectifier and pack, and put a GFCI
at the input. Should that be a hardwired GFI circuit breaker? To make it
into a 2 stage charger put a motor/controller on the variac knob.
I intended an ammeter on output of the variac and a voltmeter on the output
of the rectifier. Each of these need to be fused (or breaker) separately for
the case of a rectifier failing shorted. The fuse between the battery and
the line is to prevent a fire from the battery backfeeding into the failed
rectifier. The fuse between the variac and the rectifier is to prevent the
shorted bridge from burning out the variac.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu and Jan wrote:
> A buddy of mine came up with this: Take a speed controller from
> a variable speed dc drill. Use the controller to control a high
> voltage high current IGBT. Done!
An EV controller is one of those problems where a little knowledge is
dangerous!
Someone with a lot of experience in high-power electronics could
probably get this to work. However, such a person is also knowledgeable
enough to know that this is not a good way to do it.
There are quite a few subtle problems. The beginner is likely to ignore
them, or not even be aware that they exist. Here are a few:
1. Heatsinking. IGBTs have about a 3v drop when turned on; at (say)
500 amps that's 1500 watts of heat! Keeping the device sufficiently
cool so it won't destroy itself is a non-trivial task.
2. Freewheel diode. Not only do you need a big IGBT, you also need a
similarly big diode. And, it needs to be a *fast* switching diode
if you expect to PWM at anything more than low audio frequencies.
High current fast diodes are not generally available; so controllers
use many smaller diodes in parallel. But diodes do not share current
"nicely" in parallel; hot ones hog the current, making them get even
hotter, until you get a chain reaction failure.
3. Switching speed. Cheap surplus IGBTs are generally old, slow parts,
intended to switch at low audio frequencies. This is ok if you don't
mind an audible "whistle" at about 1 KHz. But they will be seriously
inefficient if you try to switch them at 15 KHz or above.
3. Capacitors. With fast switching edges, you need very good capacitors
across the controller input. Such parts are hard to find new, let
alone surplus. Most controllers use many smaller parts in parallel
to get adequate current ratings.
4. Gate drivers. Big IGBTs need tremendously good, stiff, high-current
gate drivers. The tiny one in a cordless hand drill controller is
hundreds of times too wimpy.
5. Current limit. Little drills don't need current limit circuits,
because their batteries and motor are self-limiting. But large
battery packs are capable of delivering awesome fault currents.
So, reliable current limiting is a virtual necessity.
6. Contactors. Solid state devices fail SHORTED! So, contactors are
mandatory to insure you can turn them off.
7. Details, details... High-power controllers are incredibly noisy.
It takes heroic measures to keep low-power control circuits stable
and "sane" around them. The automotive environment is horrible;
temperature extremes, vibration, water, dirt, bugs, etc. Most
hobbyists don't have a clue about how to build things that work
reliably under such conditions.
So, I don't think this is a viable approach. Better alternatives would
be:
1. Built a contactor controller. Much simpler, cheaper, and certain
to work.
2. Buy a used PWM controller, either an old SCR or more modern Curtis
type controller with transistors.
3. If you do decide to build a PWM controller, get a *good* look at
some existing designs and copy them. Treat it as an educational
experience; not something you are doing to save time or money
(because you won't)!
4. Break down and buy a new controller; use all the time you saved
by not building your own to build other things for your EV that
*do* fit your skills.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
