EV Digest 4346
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: SCR controllers?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) RE: Home made charge question
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Mechanical PWM Controllers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) controller electric noise
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Smarts in the US
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: controller electric noise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: SCR controllers?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: controller electric noise
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Winding a generator
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FL EAA & Grassroots EV Rally Pictures
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Smarts in the US
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Home made charge question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) What's a contactor controller?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: RPM Counters
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: SCR controllers?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What's a contactor controller?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Contactors
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fiero conversions
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Lacey Alt. Fueled Vehicle Fair & Electrathon
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: SCR controllers?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Contactors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: PFC-30 Charger (was RE: An update regarding my JeepEV)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Fiero conversions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: RPM Counters
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: RPM Counters
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Lithium chopper?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Fiero conversions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: RPM Counters
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Controllers, Home Brew or Production Made?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> 1. Heatsinking. IGBTs have about a 3v drop when turned on; at (say)
> 500 amps that's 1500 watts of heat! Keeping the device sufficiently
> cool so it won't destroy itself is a non-trivial task.
>
3v drop?! I guess that's why all of us "low voltage" types just stick to
FET-filled controllers! What is the method of energy loss/heat generation from
those - just the "on" resistance?
Anyone with the money to play with IGBTs might save a lot of time (and even more
money) just paying Ot for a Zilla! Years of experience boiled down into one
convenient green box (and a hairball on the side).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my solar work I occasionally come across work done by amateurs eg
using a thermal overload AC only circuit breaker on a 120V battery bank.
If this ever trips in anger the result will be a Chernobyl and possible
fire.
David Sharpe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2005 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Home made charge question
Tom Shay wrote:
>
> One of the more exciting things you can do with a homemade charger
> is to connect it to a battery pack in the wrong polarity. This
> will connect the rectifier diodes across the battery pack in the
> forward-biased direction and short circuit the battery pack. The
> result can be spectacular.
...as a bonus, you will also discover why it is a mistake to use an
automotive blade fuse or 250v AC-only rated fuse in the output!
Thus, you need a fuse in series with the output that is rated for a DC
voltage at least as high as your pack voltage.
> Use an Anderson connector or some other plug/socket setup which
> can't be connected wrong to connect the charger to the battery pack.
> If you use alligator clips it's just a matter of time until they get
> accidentally conected backwards.
More good advice! Been there, done that! :-( Now I have Anderson
connectors on my chargers.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis asked:
> On the conical Mechanical PWM that was being discussed, does the arcing
> occur only as the brush gets close to making contact?
Stu and Jan wrote:
> I believe that arcing occurs when contact is broken rather that
> almost being made.
It depends on the load being switched. With an inductive load like a
motor, the worst arcing occurs when you break the circuit (contacts
opening). With a capacitive load like batteries, the worst arcing occurs
when you close the circuit (contacts being connected). Resistive loads
arc less, but arc both when the circuit is opened and closed.
> I would like to see a motor/integrated mechanical PWM that self
> starts, controls speed, and can go into reverse, all with a
> straight line push/pull throttle.
Selsyn motors can do this. So can the Ward-Leonard system, and many
other early purely mechanical controllers. You'll find examples of them
still being used to drive elevators, cranes, mining and earthmoving
equipment, etc.
Another method is to couple two motors via a differential, with the
output shaft being the speed difference between them. Think of it like
having two motors drive the wheel ends of a differential, and taking
your output power from the drive shaft. Both motors have their armatures
in series, and wound fields driven with a simple little rheostat. Zero
speed occurs with both motors idling at the same rpm but in opposite
directions. Increase the field voltage on motor A and decrease it on B
and the drive shaft turns one way; swap the field voltages and it runs
the other way. You have continuous speed control, full torque, and up to
double the rpm of a single motor in both directions, right through zero
rpm.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having some problems with my data logging while driving , and was
thinking that the length of the power cables might add to the problem . As
transmitters use certain lengths of wire for antenna , could having the
power cables and motor cables be a certain length help cancel the noise from
my 200,000 watt transmitter . I beleave its on a 15,000 cycle wave
length....
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see no problem for me selling one or more (Ebay or not) smart to Us
people, in fact there is a lot of beautiful tiny European cars that could be
first class EV conversion candidate (with results far better than EV citicar
or commuta car ;^)
Problem would be on the buyer side (importation) ?
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
> Hmmm Philippe,
> Now there's a business you could get into, selling used Smart's to EV
> converters over here. I don't know how hard it would be to import and get
> approved here for licensing, but if Zap can do it, I assume others could
> too. That would be resonable I think for people to pay used, maybe
through
> evalbum or ebay too.
> have a nice day, Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
>
>
> > Here in France, second hand fortwo price start around 5000 euros :^)
> > new one start at 9000 euros and go to 13000 euros for convertible all
> option
> > model.
> >
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
> >
> >
> > > Hi Jerry,
> > > Are you sure it's $25k? When I was in Monaco a couple weeks ago and
it
> > > seamed like EVery one was driving one (well thousands on the road), I
> > > stopped in a Mercedes dealer nearby and they said it was $10k Euros or
> > $13k
> > > US. Probably a couple $k for shipping though. The trick would be to
> buy
> > > some on the used market over there and get them shipped/approved here
> and
> > > use for conversions. If I was stationed over there, I could probably
> buy
> > > one through the local paper from an individual and ship if they're now
> > > approved here for licensing. I think realistically these need to be
> under
> > > $10k US to sell. I'd love to have one though after being in one.
> > > Have a nice day, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> I'm having some problems with my data logging while driving, and
> was thinking that the length of the power cables might add to the
> problem.
Length is a factor (the shorter the better). Other factors are the
separation between wires carrying equal and opposite currents (bundle
them as close together as possible), and the spacing between the wires
and ground (closer is usually better).
> As transmitters use certain lengths of wire for antenna, could
> having the power cables and motor cables be a certain length help
> cancel the noise from my 200,000 watt transmitter. I believe it's
> on a 15,000 cycle wave length....
At 15 KHz, the wavelength is 12 *miles*, so no wire in your car is long
enough to function as an antenna. Antenna effects only matter for
frequencies up in the MHz range. EVs only generate small amounts of such
frequencies as a consequence of brush and contact arcing, and high
harmonics from very fast switching edges.
The usual problems come from things like bundling high-power and signal
wiring (creating lots of capacitive coupling between them), running them
thru the same holes in a steel body (which creates a coupling
transformer), or having a wide spacing between high-power wires so they
have a large magnetic field (induces currents in other conductors
between them), bad grounding, and poor shielding.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 3v drop?! I guess that's why all of us "low voltage" types just
> stick to FET-filled controllers! What is the method of energy
> loss/heat generation from those - just the "on" resistance?
IGBTs have the highest on-state voltage drop of any of the common
solid-state switching devices. It actually varies from about 2-3v
depending on the part and the current. For comparison, SCRs and
darlington transistors are 1.5-2v, and bipolar transistors are 0.5-1v.
All of these voltage drops are relatively independent of current over
the range of interest.
MOSFETs have a truly resistive drop; their voltage drop is predicted by
Ohm's Law from their resistance and the load current. This means they
have low voltage drop at low current, and high voltage drop at high
current. So at low currents they are more efficient and generate less
heat than the others; but at high current they are *less* efficient and
generate *more* heat.
Doubling the breakdown voltage of a MOSFET typically *quadruples* its
resistance. So low-voltage controllers (under 150v or so) tend to use
MOSFETs because their voltage drop is under 1 volt. Designers switch to
IGBTs at higher voltages because over 300v they have less voltage drop
than MOSFETs.
> Anyone with the money to play with IGBTs might save a lot of
> time (and even more money) just paying Ot for a Zilla! Years
> of experience boiled down into one convenient green box (and a
> hairball on the side).
Isaac Newton said, "If I see farther than other men, it is only because
I stand on the shoulders of giants." In other words, he learned from
others, so that he could move past them.
Those who seek to build their own controllers without seriously studying
existing controllers are just wasting their time, re-inventing the
wheel.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: controller electric noise Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 07:33:08 -0500
I'm having some problems with my data logging while driving , and was
thinking that the length of the power cables might add to the problem . As
transmitters use certain lengths of wire for antenna , could having the
power cables and motor cables be a certain length help cancel the noise
from my 200,000 watt transmitter . I beleave its on a 15,000 cycle wave
length....
Steve Clunn
15000 Hz has a wavelength of several miles, so you couldn't "tune" the cable
lengths to a specific fraction of a wavlength to minimize their
effectiveness as antennae - at least not at that frequency.
More likely, though, is that the electrical noise that's causing problems is
caused by the fast switching transients and is very broadband. I don't
think adjusting cable lengths can help here, since there is probably a wide
range of frequencies involved,
Of course, shorter cables are, in general, always better (and, shielding,
if possible, may help).
There may be some way to filter out some of the noise at the controller
output using capacitors or inductors. Any comments on this from you
electical guys??? Or, capacitors across the motor terminals? Or, would this
cause brush problems??
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recently, someone on this list was asking about generator construction.
I thought this might be of interest.
http://www.greeleynet.com/~cmorrison/WindMachine.html
All the steps and lots of pictures of this guy converting a fan motor to
a low rpm generator.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to everybody that came and brought their EV's your guys are great,
This was the best rally so far , with many people coming form out of town to
find out about EV's . I'd gotten calls form people all week , asking about
the rally and ev's in general. I got to see Pro ev's car for the first time,
"hay where's the batteries ?" , they where in there , two small boxes under
the seat, ,, 2 ac motors , well I could go on but you would just have to be
there and see it :-) . Time went so fast that I didn't get to take allot of
pictures , I did get some , and Jon will be putting them up on the
www.grassrootsev.com web site soon .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 10:27 PM
Subject: FL EAA & Grassroots EV Rally Pictures
Hey Everyone,
I got the pictures posted from the EV Rally here in Fl last weekend. They
are on the Florida EAA website under "Photo Album" --> "Events
Gallery" -->
"EV Rally April 2005" ( http://www.floridaeaa.org )
It was a great time, thanks to Steve Clunn for hosting it and to everyone
else who made it out with their EV's!!!
FYI, the Rally/Meeting minutes can be found on the website in the Forum,
under "Events & Meetings".
Thanks,
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida Electric Auto Assoc.
http://www.floridaeaa.org
Custom Honda Electric Motorcycle 72V
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe they can be sold as auto parts if they are sold as gliders with no
engine. I will look into this. I am just back from Croatia, birthplace of
Tesla, and will be opening a European distribution center for EV Parts, Inc.
and will be operating in a "Free Zone" which means no income tax, no VAT
tax, no import or export duties on my end. There are many Smarts on the
streets in Zagreb.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
I see no problem for me selling one or more (Ebay or not) smart to Us
people, in fact there is a lot of beautiful tiny European cars that could be
first class EV conversion candidate (with results far better than EV citicar
or commuta car ;^)
Problem would be on the buyer side (importation) ?
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
Hmmm Philippe,
Now there's a business you could get into, selling used Smart's to EV
converters over here. I don't know how hard it would be to import and get
approved here for licensing, but if Zap can do it, I assume others could
too. That would be resonable I think for people to pay used, maybe
through
evalbum or ebay too.
have a nice day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
> Here in France, second hand fortwo price start around 5000 euros :^)
> new one start at 9000 euros and go to 13000 euros for convertible all
option
> model.
>
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
>
>
> > Hi Jerry,
> > Are you sure it's $25k? When I was in Monaco a couple weeks ago and
it
> > seamed like EVery one was driving one (well thousands on the road), I
> > stopped in a Mercedes dealer nearby and they said it was $10k Euros or
> $13k
> > US. Probably a couple $k for shipping though. The trick would be to
buy
> > some on the used market over there and get them shipped/approved here
and
> > use for conversions. If I was stationed over there, I could probably
buy
> > one through the local paper from an individual and ship if they're now
> > approved here for licensing. I think realistically these need to be
under
> > $10k US to sell. I'd love to have one though after being in one.
> > Have a nice day, Mark
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I have always used Variac's is to get to the proper voltage. The
current will start high & go down as the charge cycle ends. It has always
provided a full charge although not as quick as other charger that are more
complicated. Very dependable and once you set it at the right voltage it
usually stays there with little adjustment over time. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 10:31 PM
Subject: Home made charge question
Thanks to the list and a schematic from Jerald, I just finished building
my first charger. It's
not supposed to go in the car, just help me with some simple benchtop
tasks. It's just a variac,
bridge rectifier, mechanical timer switch a couple of fuses and a fan. At
first blush it seems to
work Ok. I put a meter to the output and I get adjustable DC voltage as
expected. Now before I
hook it up to any batteries/cells, I have another question. The variac
allows me to adjust voltage
up and down, but how do I control current? I've seen the posts about using
light bulbs or
extension cords to control current. But I'd rather be a little more
deliberate about it.
If I understand the way this works, you connect the charger up with the
variac turned down and
then crank it up to get the desired current. What happens with the
voltage? Does it automatically
stay under control?
I installed the smoke in this charger and I'll be damned if I'm going to
let any out.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What's a contactor controller?
Better
> alternatives would
> be:
>
> 1. Built a contactor controller. Much simpler,
> cheaper, and certain
> to work.
>
> 2. Buy a used PWM controller, either an old SCR or
> more modern Curtis
> type controller with transistors.
>
> 3. If you do decide to build a PWM controller, get a
> *good* look at
> some existing designs and copy them. Treat it as
> an educational
> experience; not something you are doing to save
> time or money
> (because you won't)!
>
> 4. Break down and buy a new controller; use all the
> time you saved
> by not building your own to build other things
> for your EV that
> *do* fit your skills.
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi james,bill and all,
what method do you all recommend to find the RPM of
exposed axle shafts on a front wheel drive veh. can I
place a mag and use a bicycle speedo pickup? if so how
to get pulses into RPM???
other ideas???
thanks
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 11:44 AM 7/05/05 -0600, Bill Dennis wrote:
> >I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft.
> What devices are
> >available to allow me to count the RPMs since I
> have no tail shaft to attach
> >to? Thanks.
>
> Hi Bill (and all)
>
> More information needed:
>
> Are you using a gearbox? Without clutch? Then a
> target piece could be
> placed on the gearbox input shaft, sensor of your
> choice.
>
> Are you using a clutch? If so you may be able use a
> proximity switch to
> count part of the clutch plate assembly as it goes
> past. Alternatively you
> may be able to bolt targets onto the flywheel using
> the clutch assembly bolts.
>
> Is there space behind the tail end of the motor? and
> is the end of the
> motor shaft exposed? You could put a refective tape
> section on the end of
> the motor and use an optical sensor looking at the
> end of the motor. Or
> glue a symmetrical shaped target onto the end of the
> shaft to provide two
> quadrants in a steel target for a proximity switch.
>
> Alternatively it would be possible to change the
> rear bearing to one that
> has the same outside diameter, but a bigger inside
> diameter. This would
> allow for a tubular piece to be made that fits over
> the end of the motor
> shaft, that you could make/have made with target
> castellations on the
> exposed part. As long as you are not pulling any
> power off such a piece a
> press-fit is all the holding needed. The rear plate
> hole (if it has one)
> would need to be made big enough to clear the new
> tail piece.
>
> I favour using industrial inductive proximity
> switches to detect steel (or
> aluminium with reduced sensitivity) parts moving
> past. Yes, they are not
> the cheapest sensor by a long shot. But they are
> waterproof, dust and dirt
> proof, no optics to keep clean, mo magnets to bolt
> in. And robust? well,
> rallycars count the wheel-studs going by... doesn't
> come much more worse
> than that!. The installed cost of a proximity switch
> should be no more than
> any other means, apart from a manufacturers'
> designed-in system (ie if the
> manufacturer made a part to do the job on this
> motor, that should be the
> cheapest way).
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> James
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this the same:
Logisystems
5301 W. oakey blvd
702-498-9047
???
dO THEY MAKE A 120 VOLT ONE?
hOW MUCH BETTER is the zilla than curtis?
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Ebay Item number: 7513195423
> >
> > And
> >
> > EUPEC IGBT (INSULATED GATE BIPOLAR TRANSISTOR)
> > IHM 190X140 1700V, 1800A SINGLE
> > NEW IN BOX, WITH MOUNTING BOLTS.
> > Model641-FZ1800R17KF6C-B2
> > Four (4) Available. Next Ebay item
> >
> > Just search IGBT and you will see photos and
> descriptions
> >
> > BoyntonStu
> >
>
> Why not just buy the 72V/1000A controller from
> LogiSystems at the "referred by
> Bob Lemke" price of $490? Then you don't have to
> build something that may or
> may not work *and* you get a warrantee, which is
> worth a lot.
>
> P.S. - Other than those referred by the Voltage
> Forum, have any experienced
> EVers contacted these folks:
>
> LogiSystems
> 9910 West 64th Street
> Odessa, Texas 79764
>
> Phone (432) 381-6000
> Fax (432) 381-6001
> no website - they need to do this!
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub asked:
> What's a contactor controller?
It's a controller that uses contactors (or relays or switches) to rearrange the
batteries and/or motors in various series/parallel combinations as a means of
speed control. It's the oldest technique, and has been used in successful EVs
for over 100 years.
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all,
I am laying out the HV wiring for my fiero and have a
quick question about contactors :
I have two Albright contactors that I used in my
previous EV. I believe they are SW200, and if you
believe EVParts.com, they are rated to break 1500 A.
But I also have a couple Kilovac Czonka contactors
that I got surplus. These are definitely a more
attractive solution but I am worried about their
current capacity. EVparts.com says "Will Break 2000
Amps at 320 Volts DC". Is that true ? If so, it would
seem I am golden.
are there any disadvantages to these nice, compact,
sealed contactors compared to the big honking
albrights ?
thanks
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know lots of folks have done fiero conversions
(including several on the list). My question : what
did you do with the space where the fuel tank used to
be ? It is such prime real estate, that it seems like
such a waste to leave it empty. But unless you have
sealed batteries, they can't go there.
any good ideas ?
I know someone mounted a controller down there. Any
problem with that (assuming you can keep it dry) ?
any other clever solutions ?
thanks
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow did we have fun. I hung out all day with Father Time, John Frost, & Roy
Lemeur. Lots of people stopped by to look at the cars & bikes. John brought his
Shiny red Electric Porsche, Father Time had his newest Green Electric Drag
Bike, Roy Lemeur had a really cool folding electric bike and an electric Fiat
convertible, and I had my Electric Fiero & electric Recumbent bike. There were
other EVs, Hybrids, BioDiesel, & CNG vehicles. The crowd was pretty good with
lots of Intelligent questions. I didn't get one windmill on the roof or
generator on each wheel suggestion.
Pat Sweeney
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--- Begin Message ---
OK, how do you connect all this?
Is it as scary as Lee says?
--- Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hereis a Powerex IGBT # CM600HA-24H, 1200Volt,
> 600Amp transistor NOS never
> used still in static shielding bags this item list
> for around $400.00 apiece
> but get it here for alot less! guarenteed to work!
> here is some information
> from a surplus equipment site selling for $291.00
> each (see here)! (mine
> are new and never used ! )Here are some features/
> Low Drive Power / Low VCE
> (sat) / Discrete super fast recovery (135ns)
> free-wheel diode / High
> frequency operation (20-25kHz/ Isolated Baseplate
> for Easy Heat Sinking/ and
> some Applications are AC Motor Control/Motion/Servo
> Control / UPS / Welding
> Power Supplies/ Laser Power Supplies, To download a
> full specification sheet
> (PDF) from the manufacturer's web site, click here.
> shipping and handling
> is $10.00 u.s. shipped the day payment is made if
> possible or within 48
> hours! money order/paypal/check is fine , i alsowill
> have more of these
> available THANKS!
>
> Ebay Item number: 7513195423
>
> And
>
> EUPEC IGBT (INSULATED GATE BIPOLAR TRANSISTOR)
> IHM 190X140 1700V, 1800A SINGLE
> NEW IN BOX, WITH MOUNTING BOLTS.
> Model641-FZ1800R17KF6C-B2
> Four (4) Available. Next Ebay item
>
> Just search IGBT and you will see photos and
> descriptions
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:55 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: SCR controllers?
>
> What's IGBT?
>
> Can this do the 9" Advanced motor?
> --- Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Lee,
> >
> > A buddy of mine came up with this:
> >
> > Take a speed controller from a variable speed dc
> > drill.
> >
> > Use the controller to control a high voltage high
> > current IGBT.
> >
> > Done!
> >
> > Stu
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lee Hart
> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:04 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: SCR controllers?
> >
> > mike golub wrote:
> > > Is it worth using a SCR motor controller, if you
> > are just starting
> > > to get involved with your first ev project, and
> > you don't want to
> > > spend too much money?
> >
> > SCR controllers are an older, simpler technology.
> > Noisier and a little
> > less efficient, but if you can get one used for a
> > good price, they'll
> > work fine.
> >
> > > Do they work OK with the advanced DC 9" motors?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > Are there any brands or model #'s known?
> >
> > Lots of people made them; GE, Cableform, Sevcon,
> > etc.
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> > thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the
> only
> > thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kilovac Czonka contactors
EVparts.com says "Will Break 2000
Amps at 320 Volts DC". Is that true ?
Thats the published information. They also have a coil economizer circuit
built in. I use 2 of them in my E-Fiero one on each end of the traction pack.
Pat Sweeney
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--- Begin Message ---
Set it one click farther up.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: PFC-30 Charger (was RE: An update regarding my JeepEV)
> Hi,
>
> Don Cameron wrote:
> > You are correct, the finishing stage does take longer than the bulk
stage.
>
> Hmmm... Mine hasn't been (charger shuts off)
>
> > As you suspected, the timer just shut off the charger before finishing
was
> > complete. Here is what I did to figure out the correct timer setting
for
> > the New Beetle:
>
> I've verified with the manual that the setting is set to "8 - 80
> minutes". Why the timer won't give me the length of time I've asked it
> to is what's bothering me...
>
> Thanks,
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I originally mounted the vaccuum pump and resivor there but have since moved
it up front to make room for a couple more Exide Orbitals in the tunnel. I
will probably move the traction pack Circuit breaker to the tunnel also.
Pat Sweeney
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw 7 pics of the installation. Real easy. Please say the shaft already
has a threaded hole taped. What else is needed? What is the output of the
sensor read by?. Cost? LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: RPM Counters
Bill Dennis wrote:
I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft. What devices are
available to allow me to count the RPMs since I have no tail shaft to
attach
to?
Are you looking for something lower cost then this?
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/Zolox2.JPG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you saw doesn't have a tail shaft. The classic tail shaft sticks out
from the motor housing. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: RPM Counters
I'm looking for something that doesn't need a tail shaft. The one you
reference looks like it mounts over the tail shaft.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 1:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: RPM Counters
Bill Dennis wrote:
I have the 8-inch ADC motor without the tail shaft. What devices are
available to allow me to count the RPMs since I have no tail shaft to
attach
to?
Are you looking for something lower cost then this?
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/Zolox2.JPG
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--- Begin Message ---
Their purpose in life is as an icon, a medium
for artistic expression, a means to project an image. As motorcycles they
are truly wretched.
Well the aspect I like is the comfort. I'd trade my privates pinching situp
Lectra anyday for a more recumbent/chopper comfort bike. Lets say like my
Helix which by the way won the Iron Butt ride one year.(not mine. another
Helix) Comfort has got to be part of it. Not to mention aero. Lawrence
Rhodes........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ignored the possibilities, Sigh... nice space, can't see Regs or tune
chargers or tweak controllers down there.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Fiero conversions
> I know lots of folks have done fiero conversions
> (including several on the list). My question : what
> did you do with the space where the fuel tank used to
> be ? It is such prime real estate, that it seems like
> such a waste to leave it empty. But unless you have
> sealed batteries, they can't go there.
>
> any good ideas ?
>
> I know someone mounted a controller down there. Any
> problem with that (assuming you can keep it dry) ?
>
> any other clever solutions ?
>
> thanks
> ~fortunat
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:53 PM -0700 5-8-05, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
What you saw doesn't have a tail shaft. The classic tail shaft
sticks out from the motor housing. LR.........
The ADC motors set up to take the sensor do have a small tail shaft,
but even ones where the shaft does not stick out it can be made to
fit with a little drilling, tapping and spacers.
Motors with a long tail shaft can also be made to work, but that
requires spacing out the sensor as opposed to the magnet.
Have a look at the list of pictures here:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/pics/Zoloxpics/
The pictures pretty much show what is needed to make it fit.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
>From Lee Hart:
> Those who seek to build their own controllers without seriously studying
> existing controllers are just wasting their time, re-inventing the wheel.
>
>
On and off over the years here on the EVDL, we get those fairly new to the
game, wanting
to build their own controllers, whether simplistic or more similar to designs
already on
the market. I just shake my head as I read the posts and remember when I too,
thought it
wasn't a big deal to make my own on-road EV motor controller. It was back in
1980 when I
loosely studied things and built my own controller. After assembling a row of
steel cased
power transistors on a big heat sink with what I though was appropriate
circuitry and all
(never mind the fact that I left out ripple caps or any semblance of flyback
diodes), I
jacked my EV up and tried it out....it worked.... for about 5 minutes of
playing around
with the throttle and all, but then there was this BIG bang, lots of smoke, and
pieces of
shrapnel imbedded in the sheet rock walls of my garage (this was pre-backyard
shop
days)!!! Several hundred dollars of parts up in smoke, and lucky to still have
functioning
eyes.
Of course, that was 25 years ago and I like to think I've learned a bit since
then :-)
Still, it takes a lot of thought, a lot of money, and a lot of testing to
design and build
a non-audible, reliable and powerful, high voltage - high current DC motor
controller.
Just ask some of the seasoned electronic gurus here on the list, how much high
dollar
silicon they've blown up.
Kudos to Otmar, who's Cafe Electric offers the incredibly reliable, super
powerful, super
flexible Zilla line of DC motor controllers. These controllers are absolutely
state of the
art, and in my opinion, they are the very best you can buy. I know of no other
DC motor
controller designed for road going or all out racing EVs, that even comes
close. Consider
my original #3 Godzilla 1400 amp controller. It's still setting records in
White Zombie,
has never, ever failed, and has survived driving all kinds of insidious loads
under my
watch, from arcing 9 inch ADCs, to Kostovs running with partially melted
armature
windings, to twin motors being switched in and out of series and parallel, and
operating
at pack voltages up to 336 volts and subjected to controller bypasses...through
all of
this, it still just keeps on cranking out incredible power.
I've reluctantly sold my other incredibly powerful and very reliable DCP 1200
Raptor
controller, the only other controller that came close to a Zilla, though
comparing a 1200
amp controller with an upper ceiling of 168V to a 336V, 2000 amp Godzilla isn't
really an
apples to apples thing. Nonetheless, Damon and Rich built one nice air-cooled
156V rated
controller, and my Raptor transformed Blue Meanie into a high performance EV.
The controller lineup for me now, is pure Otmar, pure Cafe Electric, pure
Zilla. It starts
with the Z 1K Zilla presently being installed in Blue Meanie, along with 17 new
Orbitals
at 204V, then, there's the Godzilla 1400 amp still powering White Zombie (along
with the
Afterburner bypass mode) but now back to working at 336V with 28 fresh Hawkers
soon to
arrive, and finally, the BIG 2000 amp 348V Zilla for the Purple Phaze electric
drag truck
that will draw off 560 hp of stored electrical power via 29 Exide Orbitals. It
will be
heavy, but with most of its weight in batteries, it should be scary quick and
fast!
Lee Hart wrote:
> Stu and Jan wrote:
> > A buddy of mine came up with this: Take a speed controller from
> > a variable speed dc drill. Use the controller to control a high
> > voltage high current IGBT. Done!
>
> An EV controller is one of those problems where a little knowledge is
> dangerous!
Amen!
Lee, thank you for such a well written post.
>
> Someone with a lot of experience in high-power electronics could
> probably get this to work. However, such a person is also knowledgeable
> enough to know that this is not a good way to do it.
>
> There are quite a few subtle problems. The beginner is likely to ignore
> them, or not even be aware that they exist. Here are a few:
>
> 1. Heatsinking. IGBTs have about.....7. Details, details... High-power
> controllers are
> incredibly noisy.
> It takes heroic measures to keep low-power control circuits stable
> and "sane" around them.......
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
Plasma Boy Racing
'We blow stuff up, so you don't have to'
--- End Message ---
