EV Digest 4419
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Monster Garage does a golfcart?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: PowerPoints on EV
by Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: RS-232 isolators for E-meter, SIADIS, etc.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: NAPA Battery Acid Filler (for watering)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Monster Garage does a golfcart?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Power of DC Friday Night Dinner
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) BVU leaving for Power of DC today
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Power of DC - Friday Night
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 15 inch motor?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DC Controller failures. A list?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EV News From Seattle and the Pacific NW - V2G Conference
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: RS-232 isolators for E-meter, SIADIS, etc.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: RS-232 isolators for E-meter, SIADIS, etc.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DC Controller failures. A list?
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) AC motor operation... does anybody know how these work?
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Motors from Forklift.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That's the way my old Cableform controller was wired.
Large control power switch that turns off the control power to the controller
and two safety contactors coming from the batteries.
Turning on the ignition key, turns on the two safety contactors.
Pressing and depressing the accelerator turns on and off the main contactor.
One time and only one time, I was in a parking spot between two cars. I turn
the ignition on and then press the accelerator, (I always start up in neutral
with the clutch press in which brings up the motor to a 600 rpm idle before
pulling away), the motor violently started to overspeed which normally stays at
600 rpm by the load on it by the accessory drives system.
It felt like a Mack truck hit me in the back at 60 mph. Letting up on the
accelerator peddle stop this action and it was over in less than a second.
I now have a Zilla, which requires the main contactor to be on all the time.
The two safety contactors are still operated by the ignition key and one on
dash switch and two on the console and one large red power off switch.
On any of the contactors, you can have a overload relay which is like a current
relay that will drop off if the current is going above a preset level for a set
time.
The depressing of the accelerator is the faster reaction while a large power
off switch is the second fast reaction. The ignition key on some cars can not
be turn off until you put the shift level in neutral or park which locks the
steering wheel at a angle.
By the way, going clutch less or using direct drive does not work on my car. I
am going back to 19.5:1 overall gear for startup and shift down to 13.5:1 for
city driving under 35 mph. In one month of driving in direct drive or with a
overall ratio of 5.57:1, the commentators had more wear on them than they had
in the last thirty years!
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Imagine sitting waiting for green. Usually your bumper is 3-4 feet
> away from the car in front of you. Should your controller fail full
> on at this time, calculate your reaction time to pull that hand
> brake.
>
> If you lurch with squeaking tires toward pedestrian/child,
> even few feet, you're in serious trouble even if you don't
> quite reach them.
>
> For that kind of reaction you should constantly keep your hand
> on the parking brake ready and *expect* to pull at any second.
> No one normally drives that way.
Let's be realistic here.
A DC motor controller can fail "full on"; but it is not going to happen
when the car is sitting still with your foot off the throttle. Here are
the circumstances where the controller is most likely to fail "on":
1. You "floor it" from a dead stop. Controller tries to go into
current limit, but it fails. Typically one transistor shorts
first; when the rest turn off, this one is now carrying *all*
the current. It quickly superheats, and explodes. But this can
short out adjacent transistors. You get a relatively rapid chain
reaction of failures, as the rest of the transistors short.
During this time, the motor is stuck fully on, and producing
large amounts of torque.
2. You are charging your EV, and have it wired so the controller
is always "on". The battery voltage on charge goes over the
controller's absolute maximum voltage, and a transistor fails
shorted. Same chain reaction scenario as above; if car was left
in gear, it leaps forward.
3. Controller has inadequate cooling, and is seriously overheated.
You step on the throttle, producing still more heat in controller.
A transistor fails from overtemperature, and again the chain
reaction occurs.
In each case, people create the problem with undersized undercooled
controllers, overly large motors, circuits that overstress the parts,
and when there are no safety devices or wiring to deal with such
failures if they occur.
For example
- Don't use a Curtis 1221 controller with a 9" motor. It's too much
motor for the size of the controller.
- Don't run your controller at its maximum rated voltage or current;
back it down so you have some safety margin. Don't run a "96-144v"
controller with a 144v pack, and don't run the current limit wide
open.
- Make sure the controller has plenty of cooling; if it is
uncomfortably hot to touch, it is too hot!
- Be sure to include a DC-rated fast-blow fuse with a current rating
*below* the controllers current rating. If the controller shorts,
the current into a stalled motor will be several times larger, and
the fuse will blow almost instantly. But the fuse won't blow in
normal use because the average battery current is always less than
the controller's current limit if it is working.
- Include contactors adequate to safely break the worst-case voltage
and current that could occur if the controller fails. Wire them so
they *will* turn off in the event of a failure. For instance,
Curtis recommends wiring the main contactor thru the switch on the
potbox, so letting up on the throttle drops the contactor. If the
car does "run away", your natural reaction to release the throttle
will turn it off -- no need to depend on the driver to remember to
pull the handbrake, or press the clutch and shift into neutral, etc.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.htelectricmotors.com/news091704.htm I stumbled upon this while
surfing.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sherry Boschert
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 8:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PowerPoints on EV
I have 43 PowerPoint slides that I put together for the EV half of our
workshop on Saturday -- "PV/EV = Solar Power + Electric Vehicles." (Thanks
to Bob Bath and Marc Geller, from whom I copied a few slides.) If anyone
would like to see/use them, email me off list.
The file is too big to be posted in the Files sections of any of the lists I
subscribe to -- I tried.
And if you spot any mistakes, of course please let me know.
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
415-681-7731
www.sfeva.org
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>
> Just checking on this , running an stock advanced motor / like a net gain ,
> or adc in reverse to give the car a reverse is ok at low speed ?
Correct. With the brushes advanced for best operation in forward, they
will arc more in reverse. But you won't be going fast enough or long
enough to matter.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> Now that I have a few hundred miles on the New Beetle EV, I would
> like to determine its' capacity so I can program the EMeter. These
> are Deka 8G34R Gel Cells with a C/20 rate of 60Ah. One way to
> determine the actual capacity is to:
>
> 1) Charge the batteries full
> 2) Wait for 12-24 hours, measure pack voltage
> 3) Drive for a distance (20miles)
> 4) Wait for 12-24 hours, measure pack voltage
> 5) Correct for temperature and compare to manufacturer's specs
> for battery capacity
>
> Comments? Suggestions?
This will give you the capacity at the high currents your EV pulls.
You'll have to note the time it took you to drive that 20 miles. The
amphours used, divided by the time, gives you the average discharge
current.
Then, you'll need to discharge the batteries with a fixed load at their
20-hour rate. Again, note the current and the time.
>From these two data points, you can calculate the Peukert exponent. The
formula is in the E-meter manual. Now you have the actual 20-hour-rate
capacity, and the Peukert exponent, and the E-meter can accurately
estimate the capacity at any values in between.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >
> > Just checking on this , running an stock advanced motor / like a net gain ,
> > or adc in reverse to give the car a reverse is ok at low speed ?
>
> Correct. With the brushes advanced for best operation in forward, they
> will arc more in reverse. But you won't be going fast enough or long
> enough to matter.
As a followup to this thread and the Discovery Channel show, I'm curious about
motor timing and
the non-racing EV. Is there any advantage to adjusting the timing if I'm more
concerned about
efficiency and day-to-day driving than the quarter mile? Can I make any
significant changes to my
car by tuning the motor as was briefly shown in the video? Assume that I will
use the transmission
for reverse.
Thanks
Dave Cover
PS Great show Rod, FT, Otmar, Rich etc. I taped it but would be interested in
buying a CD if there
was more material included than made the broadcast. Does the CD include more
footage?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> A DC motor controller can fail "full on"; but it is not going
>> to happen when the car is sitting still with your foot off the
>> throttle.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Well, I've had it happen to me. Does that count? ...
> Something in the logic failed on my Auburn controller.
Sure it does! It tells me that Auburn may have had a design error in
their controller that allowed this to happen.
Likewise, your incident with the throttle not returning to zero is a
design flaw. The designer made a mistake; something he didn't plan for
and didn't expect happened, resulting in an unsafe condition.
Design errors can happen with *any* design; AC or DC. They are most
common with home-made or one-off projects, because very little thought
and almost no testing goes into them. Ususally, just one person designed
it; no one double-checked his work, so anything he "missed" won't get
caught until it actually causes a failure. Classic scenario: "Fuse? I
don't need no stinkin' fuse! This will never fail!"
>>>> Ka-Bang <<<<
This sort of error can also happen with low-production items, like the
Auburn controller. While more than one person is involved in the design
and testing, sometimes just one person picked a part. No one checked it,
and it never happened to fail during the limited testing the product got
before it was put on the market. This is why it is important for
companies to get failure reports back from the field, and evaluate what
happened. The designers will then see their mistake, and can correct it.
PS: In this world of throwaway products, this kind of feedback
disappears. Designers never see failed products, and so never discover
their errors, so they keep right on making the same mistakes in
subsequent products!
Large companies are used to having many people involved in the designs,
and do lots of testing themselves to see if there are unexpected and
unsafe failure modes. It makes design a lot more expensive, but this
cost can be spread out over higher production volumes.
EVs tend to use lots of low-production one-off products. Thus they have
a much higher risk of "unintended failures". So, it behooves us to add
our own "backup systems".
And of course; there are other possible causes of failure as well.
Component failures, for instance. Though a good designer expects that
parts will fail someday, and designs the product to still be safe even
if it happens. It will be broken; but not unsafe. And there could be
assembly errors (loose screws, missing or wrong parts, etc. Or
environmental failures (water got inside), or collision damage, or other
causes.
> This could not happen with an AC drive. The drive must be fully
> intelligent to spin the motor. Yes, it could go "bang". No, it
> would not spin the motor.
I don't have much experience with AC EVs, but do have with industrial AC
drives -- and they *do* fail "fully-on" at times! Same issues as above;
design errors, part failures, environmental issues, etc.
I think the main reason that AC controllers do not fail "on" as often is
because they tend to be far more complex and expensive designs; and so
more attention goes into safety. More people worked on it, and more
testing was done. When this same kind of attention is paid to DC drives,
they are just as reliable.
> It is a really good idea to leave the clutch in a DC conversion.
> It is not much of an issue when you remove the clutch in an AC
> conversion.
I'd say that is a good rule for the casual EV builder.
The AC drives available are expensive, complex designs that have
extensive built-in safeguards against runaways. They are not built to
work with clutches; they were designed with direct drive in mind, and
run at high enough rpms to make a clutch dangerous.
The DC drives available to hobbyists are generally far simpler, and lack
the built-in safety systems to prevent runaways. You can (and should!)
add them externally. A clutch is one example; it's already there in an
EV conversion, so it's simplest to just keep it. But as you get more
experienced, and seek higher levels of performance and efficiency, you
can eliminate the clutch and use other methods to insure safety and
prevent runaways.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
> Accident statistics clearly show that most people can't hit a brake
> or clutch pedal in that time-frame, either. They usually just stomp
> down on whatever's under their foot be it gas, brake or clutch.
> Happens all the time. And I don't have to reach for the handbrake. I
> could also reach for the breaker on the dash. Factor in the fact that
> I'm already stepping on the brake (since I'm stopped at a light)
> which will slow down the acceleration considerably. Not stop it, of
> course, but slow it.
I agree. If you depend on the driver to take action -- ANY action -- in
a runaway situation, there will be a reaction time. He/she has to a)
realize there's a problem, b) figure out what to do to stop it, and c)
do it. This could take anywhere from half a second to forever (i.e.
driver panics and does not take *any* corrective action).
For the record, I've wired my EV so the brake switch also drops the main
contactor. This way it doesn't cycle on/off every time the throttle is
released; but *will* drop each time I touch the brake pedal.
John Wayland devised a circuit that dropped the main contactor if you
release the accellerator pedal *and* there was still voltage on the
motor. That strikes me as a good way to go. (Maybe he'll post the
circuit again; or I'll check my archives and see if I have it).
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"ISO" International Organization for Standardization
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage
I never understood why the S and O were backwards, especially in an
organization that is pushing standards.
I could use a few RS-232 isolators.
______________
Andre' B.
At 06:53 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Lee,
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> >>I hope you do you use ISO->RS232 converter!
> >
> > That reminds me. I just finished building yet another isolated RS-232
> > converter, to isolate an E-meter's RS-232 output so it can be connected
> > to a laptop or other non-isolated PC. This is probably the 5th or 6th
> > one I've made.
> ...
> > Basic specs:
> ...
>
> By all means do it if others have need for it.
> In this particular case:
>
> a) Richard has this converter as a part of his purchase, so "for free"
> b) iti s not simple RS232-isolator, it is ISOxxx(OBD2) <-> RS232
> converter/translator having L, K lines and other stuff not related
> to RS232.
>
> Just an isolator will not work with Simotion inverter.
>
> So I suppose your message/offer had nothing to do with
> SIADIS in subject or Richard's problem.
Ah; thank you for the clarification. I thought ISO was short for
"isolated", not one of the European ISO standards.
But the offer still stands. Does anyone need an isolated RS-232 to RS232
converter?
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, very handy, though that one is not the best and is expensive.
This one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47532
is handier and much cheaper. Handier because you can fill it standing
upright.
I recommend getting one for each TYPE of battery you have and then
trimming the nozzle to the correct length to maintain the acid level.
John
On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:58:03 -0400, "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Resending, message apparently wasn't delivered yesterday.
>
>Balkamp Battery Acid Filler -- Battery Filler, Automatic,2 Quart
>
>http://www.napaonline.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/NAPAonline/search_results_product_detail.d2w/report?prrfnbr=15616588
>
>Is this a good solution for routine watering of flooded lead acid batteries?
>It says "Acid Filler", but it looks like it would work for just adding
>water... and also seems like it would make the process faster and easier.
>
>Glenn
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was the one who consulted and acted as one of the
hosts for that episode. they put in a 600 amp
contoller but used the same old 8v volt golf cart
batts with tab terminals for 72 volts. it was pretty
anemic at best. I'm working with the new owner who
uses it as a pit car for his daughters dragster. I
think I've got him convinced to switch that to
electric as well.
Gadget
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.htelectricmotors.com/news091704.htm I
> stumbled upon this while
> surfing.
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/7/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For the record, I've wired my EV so the brake switch also drops the main
> contactor. This way it doesn't cycle on/off every time the throttle is
> released; but *will* drop each time I touch the brake pedal.
>
> John Wayland devised a circuit that dropped the main contactor if you
> release the accellerator pedal *and* there was still voltage on the
> motor. That strikes me as a good way to go. (Maybe he'll post the
> circuit again; or I'll check my archives and see if I have it).
I tried something like this a while ago as well, just a couple of
relays and a resistor, and it worked, sort of.
I made it single shot - a relay latched if the condition happened, so
it wouldn't cycle the contactor on and off.
But I found that it could be activated if you let your foot off the
pedal very quickly, because the voltage takes a while to fall
completely in the motor circuit (due to the Curtis design I think).
So, after a couple of false-trips at inconvenient moments, I
disconnected it - a more clever design is needed!
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Shawn,
That's really great that you all will be coming up together and getting
the Miramar Porsche on the road.
Friday night sounds like a good idea for everyone to get together.
There are plenty of places to eat in Hagerstown.
I haven't brought up the idea with my wife yet since she doesn't think
I can get all the race stuff ready by Saturday and if I mention going
out on Friday night at this point she'll probably kill me.
She is right, as usual, since there is a ton of details left to attend
to so if I don't see yall Friday evening have a great time.
My cell is 240-687-1678
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shawn Waggoner
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: West Coasters Invited out to Power of DC
Hi Chip,
Sounds like this year's event is going to be much larger than last
years!
Matt, Lowell and I are going to be loading up the bikes & Miramar's
Porsche
and heading up on Thursday afternoon. We have a lot of testing to do
this
week, (and Lowell has a new Z2K to wire up in the Porsche...) but we
will be
driving up from Florida mid-afternoon on Thursday and hope to be getting
in
mid to late Friday afternoon.
Are there any plans for pre-race get together Friday night anywhere?
We will be bringing a couple of new electric mini-bikes and parts for
the
swap meet.
See ya up there! (And thanks for doing an amazing job at getting this
race/event together! You're awesome!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Erekson, the professor from Brigham Young University, emailed
yesterday and said the testing with the new axles for their Ultra
Capacitor powered EV-1 went well and they are leaving Utah for Maryland
today.
Just seeing a live EV-1 again, not pancaked, will be awesome. It will
be like seeing a ghost.
Thanks everyone for making the effort to come out this year. We'll have
plenty of cool EVs to show Discovery and the visitors to the race. And
thanks to our sponsors this year.
More race updates soon . . .
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll be at Motel 8 Friday and Saturday, not sure what time I'll get
there maybe
7 at the latest, depends how many pit stops along the way and if we can
leave by
9.
James
Quoting Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:47 AM
Subject: Power of DC - Friday Night
Barring any Wayland type events, I'll be there Friday night also. Do you
have reservations? Where's everybody staying?
I game for a get together, haven't heard about one yet though.
-- Hi Tim;
Seeya friday nite. Will camp out in my Van that nite. May look for a
place SAT nite, sleep inside, running water etc, head back Sun DAY
driving.Should be fun!
Seeya
Bob
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi_torque_electric said:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Any guess as to how much Netgains 15" motor weighs?
>
> Somewhere around 450 I'd guess. GE builds a Hyster that weighes 450
> pounds. I've only built 3 of them, because they don't fail very
> often.
>
>
>> What real world application are these 13" and 15" motors currently
> found in?
Can you folks tell me where you've heard about a 15" motor from Netgain?
I've recently had them build me a 13" motor, and in none of our
conversations was anything ever mentioned about a 15" design. I believe
the 13" motor is their largest, and at the new length of 22" I was given a
figure of around 360lbs. I haven't received it yet, and when I do I'll
try to weigh it.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody ever tried one of the advanced battery
conductance analyzers? I have one that I used to check
the batts out of the EMW motorcycle. I had pulled all
24 batts from the bike and charged them in parallel at
a slow trickle. I then checked the SOC by voltage. I
found 2 stinkers at 11.6 volts. I grouped the rest of
the batteries by their voltages from 12.4 up to 12.8.
I then checked them with the analyzer and found that
they ranked about the same with a few exceptions. some
of the batts with the lower voltages had way more
capacity than the ones with the higher voltages. I
charged again for another 24 hours at a float charge
and found that the voltages started to come more in
line with the results of the analyzer. Anybody know
haw these things work? I've been able to check entire
banks of batteries in minutes instead of hours. the
analyzer will even do a printout of the tests. What a
great way to check out a battery pack for loafers and
I can do it in the car. If anybody in the Los Angeles
area want to do a pack check lemme know. This might be
the kind of toy local EV chapters could have on hand
for members to test their cars with. sure would save a
lot of headaches.
Gadget
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Let's be realistic here.
You can stop here Lee, you can't sell this argument
to a paranoid soccer mom who don't know amps from ants...
I perfectly understand technicality and your discussion.
Won't help to sell it, even opposite - the more obscure
technical terms you throw to a customer trying to convince,
the more scared he/she gets.
Make it automatic so it never ever can happen and you don't
even have to mention a possibility of it happening.
One solution - AC drive (reason industry uses it).
Other - ___________ (fill the blank)....
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
...
I've heard of a few of these situations. Always in controllers/systems
that do not verify a successful precharge before allowing the main
contactor to turn on. In one case the car did lurch forward when the key
was turned on, in the others it was in neutral and the motor spun up
uncontrolled when the key was turned on.
With this precharging business, I always wondered but never got clear
answer: why not have caps permanently connected to the battery
and have main contactors disconnect just controller from it all?
That way no precharging is ever needed, turn on and go.
Granted, there is "service" switch between caps and battery
(with pre-charge resisor) and all that goodies... but not
for every day use.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes... 3 Weeks ago, I also did not know what V2G was.. Vehicle to Grid
to put it simply. I also thought, How Silly. You loose going IN to
your batteries, and you Loose going out, through an inverter back to the
grid. How the heck would that help any one. BUT what I was not aware
of is how power is distributed and bought and sold. ( Remember ENRON ??)
So one charges ones car at low peak at low prices, and IF your car is
hooked in during a HIGH PEAK period, the UTILITY would PAY you BIG to
suck a certain amount back out, thereby paying YOU and saving them from
buying what would other wise be MORE expensive power some where else.
Of course this only becomes meaningful if 1% of all cars were either
BEV's or PHEV's. But at THAT point, as the panel of experts have taught
me, there would be giga-Watts at their desposal on a national level....
Several panel experts also explained that H2 would not work...I was
very glad to see detailed statistical studies on THIS fact ( all of us
already know... )
Too much detail in two days of panel discussion to cover it here. Just
Google "V2G" for full scientific papers on the subject.. But let me
outline the Guest speakers List to give this all credibility. I was
honored to attend.
Tom Gage, President AC Propulsion Inc.
Dean Taylor, Senior Tech, EV Transportation , So.Cal.Edison
Dr. Mark Duvall, EPRI
Frank Lambert, Chair Hybrid Vehicle Infrastructure Council
Roger Duncan, Deputy General Manager, Austin Energy Co.
Dr. Willett Kempton, Sr. Policy Scientist U.of Deleware V2G
Steve Nicholas, Director Seattle City Light
Jorge Carrasco, Superintendent, Seattle City Light
Patric Mazzaq, Climate Solutions Research Director
...and many others too numerous to mention...
AND in the Audience from Seattle EV Association .....
Steve Lough, Pres. Jim Johanson, Pres. MC Electric, Tracy
Caroll-FlexCar Seattle, Alastar Dodwell -Representative - Tango and
Commutercar Co. of Spokane, Greg Rock-Green Car Co.Seattle, ..and others....
BE AWARE... That Tango - CommuterCar Co. and ProDrive will be
DELIVERING the First Production T A N G O to actor George Clooney,
within the week. And there will be an article in Vanity Fair showing
George with his NEW H O T EV...! This will probably also make those
TV shows that follow actors around... Watch for it...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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--- Begin Message ---
Because it is "International Standartization Organization".
"International Organization for standartization" is better
plain English sounding description of above.
Victor
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
"ISO" International Organization for Standardization
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage
I never understood why the S and O were backwards, especially in an
organization that is pushing standards.
I could use a few RS-232 isolators.
______________
Andre' B.
At 06:53 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Lee,
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> >>I hope you do you use ISO->RS232 converter!
> >
> > That reminds me. I just finished building yet another isolated RS-232
> > converter, to isolate an E-meter's RS-232 output so it can be
connected
> > to a laptop or other non-isolated PC. This is probably the 5th or 6th
> > one I've made.
> ...
> > Basic specs:
> ...
>
> By all means do it if others have need for it.
> In this particular case:
>
> a) Richard has this converter as a part of his purchase, so "for free"
> b) iti s not simple RS232-isolator, it is ISOxxx(OBD2) <-> RS232
> converter/translator having L, K lines and other stuff not related
> to RS232.
>
> Just an isolator will not work with Simotion inverter.
>
> So I suppose your message/offer had nothing to do with
> SIADIS in subject or Richard's problem.
Ah; thank you for the clarification. I thought ISO was short for
"isolated", not one of the European ISO standards.
But the offer still stands. Does anyone need an isolated RS-232 to RS232
converter?
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Ok now that you made me actually look for it. :)
From page. http://www.iso.org/iso/en/aboutiso/introduction/index.html
"
What ISO's name means
Because "International Organization for Standardization" would have
different abbreviations in different languages ("IOS" in English, "OIN" in
French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), it was decided at
the outset to use a word derived from the Greek isos, meaning "equal".
Therefore, whatever the country, whatever the language, the short form of
the organization's name is always ISO.
"
________________
Andre' B.
At 12:42 PM 6/7/2005, you wrote:
Because it is "International Standartization Organization".
"International Organization for standartization" is better
plain English sounding description of above.
Victor
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
"ISO" International Organization for Standardization
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage
I never understood why the S and O were backwards, especially in an
organization that is pushing standards.
I could use a few RS-232 isolators.
______________
Andre' B.
At 06:53 PM 6/6/2005, you wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Lee,
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> >>I hope you do you use ISO->RS232 converter!
> >
> > That reminds me. I just finished building yet another isolated RS-232
> > converter, to isolate an E-meter's RS-232 output so it can be connected
> > to a laptop or other non-isolated PC. This is probably the 5th or 6th
> > one I've made.
> ...
> > Basic specs:
> ...
>
> By all means do it if others have need for it.
> In this particular case:
>
> a) Richard has this converter as a part of his purchase, so "for free"
> b) iti s not simple RS232-isolator, it is ISOxxx(OBD2) <-> RS232
> converter/translator having L, K lines and other stuff not related
> to RS232.
>
> Just an isolator will not work with Simotion inverter.
>
> So I suppose your message/offer had nothing to do with
> SIADIS in subject or Richard's problem.
Ah; thank you for the clarification. I thought ISO was short for
"isolated", not one of the European ISO standards.
But the offer still stands. Does anyone need an isolated RS-232 to RS232
converter?
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
I use a Kodiak 600WC controller in my truck. The traction voltage
system is set up with two isolation contactors, one in the positive and
one in the negative leg of the battery to controller connections. When
I turn on the key, the negative contactor closes and a time delay relay
starts along with a small relay that applies power to the positive
terminal of the controller through a resistor for precharge. After 10
seconds, the time delay times out, closing the main positive contactor.
One day, I was sitting in a parking lot across town from home. I turned
on the key. The precharge sequence started, I heard the main contactor
pull in, as the 'battery' idiot light went out. The tach immediately
started to go to the limit, while the ammeter just about pegged at
500amps. Luckily, I have always heeded John Waylands advice to shift to
neutral before turning on the key. Otherwise, the truck would have gone
grille first into a large dumpster about 2 feet in front of us.
Wonder of wonders, I called John Wayland and Ralph Merwin, both live
relatively close to where I was parked. I left a message for Ralph, but
John picked up on the second ring. Even better, John had a factory
fresh and hotrodded Kodiak 600+++WC sitting in a box in his garage. He
was generous enough to drive out to where I was with the controller and
some tools, even though he had a busy afternoon planned already.
John sized up the situation and just about the time we started removing
parts to change out the controller, Ralph showed up with more tools.
All in all, it took about 3 hours from the time I made the phone calls
to the time I was driving home.
I sent the broken controller home with Ralph so that he could take it to
Chris Brune at Shurepower for analysis. With the lid off, it is obvious
that the FETs are toast.
This failure didn't require any more than the application of full
traction voltage after precharge. I never touched the throttle.
I must say that the hot rod version of the Kodiak is much nicer than the
original.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
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--- Begin Message ---
I am trying to figure out how AC motor regenerating is
accomplished on an ev. Does anybody know?... I can't
believe no one here has looked into this!
I'd love to see a simple schematic of an AC controller
with regen braking so I can get the idea into my brain
and let the creative juices work on it.
My background has been lots of digital and transistor
theory in 2yrs of tech college. We did do AC theory
but it was limited to power supplies ad basic stuff.
Tom
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From:
Hi all
Wow I'm really suprised that the dc controllers are
being built with the full throttle fail ability built
into them! There are supposed to be ways to make them
fail with no voltage to the load. I have often seen
the open collector transistor switch configuration
quoted as a solution this problem... Does it not work
in this situation?
Tom
On 6 Jun 2005 at 20:34, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Should we EV'rs get in that habit? Clutched or
clutchless, at a stop, pull
> it out of gear!
I know some here disagree - they don't like the
clack-clack noise - but I think a DC ev should have at
least one contactor that opens when the brake
is depressed and/or the accelerator is released. If
just one of these, the latter is preferable.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Motors/DSC00034.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Motors/DSC00035.JPG with ETEK as size
comparison.
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Motors/DSC00036.JPG
The 2.4kw motors have gear reductions of 20 to one. The small pump motor
aught to push a scooter well. The other pump motor should push a motorcycle
of moped well.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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