EV Digest 4462
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: acceleration problem/help
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Russco heaters.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) e-max scooter and silicone battery
by "Jay's peoplestar account" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Simulations taking into account controller limitations
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Where are my amp hours?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) re: Silicon batteries
by toltec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: e-max scooter and silicone battery
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Antique hybrid idea
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) A Diesel/Electric car possibility
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) things that get on your nerves
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) re: Silicon batteries Reply from China
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: things that get on your nerves
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Antique hybrid idea
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: A Diesel/Electric car possibility
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Taper Lock Specs? Anyone?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Tachometer Hookup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) bilge pumps was Taper Lock Specs? Anyone?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) List Meta Request
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: A Diesel/Electric car possibility
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: things that get on your nerves
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
When you say ohm the wiring, how is that done? what should the meter read? what
wires should be tested?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: acceleration problem/help
> Bad (worn) accelerator pot or loose connection to it.
> Ohm the wiring and/or replace the pot to test this suspicion.
>
> Victor
>
> john wrote:
>> I recently purchased a 1985 Dodge ram conversion. When I take off it goes
>> just fine but when I stop and start again sometimes it will not go. I need
>> to pump the accelerator about 4 times then it takes off. Any ideas of why
>> this is happening? I'm a newbie so need some guidance. It has an Auburn
>> C600 DC controller, Advanced D.C. motor FB1-4001 with a 144 batt pack.
>> I'm thinking it may also be the potbox..??
>> Thanks for any help John Barnes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well you all heard it. Looks like the heater is up for sale. I'll be in
the EV tradin post. Thanks Russ..........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Russco heaters.
I have a 120v Russco heater that I've never hooked up. Can it go to
144v.
If not it's for sale.
Lawrence Rhodes
Russco manufactured hydronic (hot water) heaters for EV's ten years ago.
About fifteen different models were produced in four wattages, 1500, 2000,
2500, and 3000 watts. Voltages started at 72 volts and went up to 336
volts.
One-hundred-twenty volt heaters were produced in 1500, 2000, and 3000 watt
units. One-hundred-forty-four volt heaters were produced in 2000 and 3000
watts. During production, there was no reason to use a 120 volt heater on
144 volts, since 144 volt heaters were available. To use a 120 volt
heater at 144 volts will overload the internal power wiring and blow the
high voltage fuse.
And then Russco got tired of being a plumber and became charger man.
Tomorrow, controller man.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The Other PFC Charger With GFCI
Relocating to Grants Pass, Oregon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never heard of the "silicone" battery chemistry before, but it
appears to be good enough to use in the impressive-sounding "e-max"
scooter, developed in Germany.
For more info, see:
http://www.e-max-scooter.com/english/umwelt-batterien.html
From the table, it appears that the energy density is quite a bit better
than lead acid, and comparable to ni-cad. Low cost and capable of high
discharge rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was a lot of discussion in Mid December 2001 and Mid February 2002 on
this list. You might dig it up in the archives.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: Simulations taking into account controller limitations
> Victor and I had a great discussion last night about the 1/4 mile and 0-60
> simulations I am developing. He explained quite well how sometimes the
> power to the wheels may be a limitation of the controller, and not
> necessarily the motor. Therefore it is always best to model with a
motor
> **and** a controller. My models are based soley on the **motor**
rpm/torque
> charts and do not take the controller into account.
>
> That being said, Victor has some matlab software for simulations - this is
> good, but I do not have matlab and I do not want to bog down Victor with
> endless hours of simulations while I try to figure out gear ratios, motor
> sizes, battery sizes, etc etc.
>
> The spreadsheets and macros I have are working out pretty well, and I
would
> like to adjust them for controller limitations - even if it is brute force
> approximate. Largely I am running comparative models so see which
> combinations of motors, controllers, multiples thereof, gear ratios, tire
> sizes etc. would work best for 1/4 mile, top speed, 0-60 and 50-80.
>
> Does anybody have suggestions on simplistic formulas I can include in my
> motor to compensate for controller limitations?
>
>
> thanks
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the calibration of the meter. Put the battery on charge or discharge
at a fixed current and measure the current with another method (example:
calibrated clamp on ammeter) and verify both meters read the same current.
Check the zero setting on your meter. Make sure it reads zero when the
batteries are not being either charged or discharged.
Do a capacity check on the batteries by timing a discharge with a known
fixed load. You may find out the batteries have only 17 AHr of capacity.
If I recall correctly, the Peukert number should be about 1.35.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 10:41 AM
Subject: Where are my amp hours?
> Hi all,
>
> I built my first conversion this spring. It is a motorcycle.
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/newsubmissions/maki_.html
> <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/newsubmissions/maki_.html>
>
> I am using new Trojan SCS150 flooded batteries rated at 100AH C20 rate. I
> have an e-meter installed. I had the amp hour set on the emeter set for
> 100AH and the perkerts exponent set conservatively at .35. I rode it and
> the 4 fuel gauge leds at the top never came off full charge and the
> batteries ran down to pretty much empty.
>
>
>
> Then I set the emeter down to 80AH.
>
>
>
> I have never go the emeter to read more than 17 AH used and the batteries
> are flat. I have an Alltrax 450 amp controller and I never see more than
> 170 peak battery amps draw.
>
>
>
> I don't get it. Where is all my energy going. I don't know if the
> batteries aren't putting out the AH they are supposed to or if the emeter
> isn't working correctly. I am not sure how to troubleshoot from here.
>
>
>
> I am frustrated. Any advice?
>
>
>
> Garret
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this product was breifly discussed on the list in janurary of this
year... here is a summary from the manufacturer's website (no pricing
info found)
Guineng Silicon batteries...
(used in German e-Max scooter)
http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm
"...electrolyte of liquid low sodium silicate compound..."
"The disposed electrolyte, in the state of semi-solid grains, is a high
quality fertilizer..
[cannot explicitly tell from web site if electrode is lead, or some
other material... a physical specs table -
http://www.guineng.com/work.htm - lists the "Avoirdupois" (which I take
to mean "weight" but translates on bablefish as "to have pea"?!) for
their various batteries ranging from ~15-40kg, which is heavy, and the
silicon electrolite chemistry is repeatedly stated to be better than
sulfuric acid, so it's likely they are using lead for the electrode]
http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_02.htm
some specs...
? High current recharge. (0.8C---1.0C)
? High current discharge. The battery will not be damaged when
discharging within 8 seconds at the temperature of 30°C. Deep discharge
is allowed. [discharge elsewhere listed at "3-30C"]
? Low self-discharge.After fully charged, the battery can be used within
one year at a normal temperature.
? No memory effect for charging or discharging
? Functions normally between –50°C--+70°C
? Sealed with a release valve. Maintenance free.
? Over 400 times of recharging.
...could be good for racing, if the 30C discharge rate is real, yes?...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay's peoplestar account wrote:
I've never heard of the "silicone" battery chemistry before, but it
appears to be good enough to use in the impressive-sounding "e-max"
scooter, developed in Germany.
For more info, see:
http://www.e-max-scooter.com/english/umwelt-batterien.html
From the table, it appears that the energy density is quite a bit
better than lead acid, and comparable to ni-cad. Low cost and capable
of high discharge rates.
Try searching for "silicone battery" (or "silicon battery" which may be
more correct?) on Google, there seem to be a few products that use them,
model planes, solar powered garden lighting systems.
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Doug Weathers wrote:
> > I focused on the flywheel rather than the engine. I think flywheels
> > might be another valuable "battery" technology that should be studied.
>
> Yes, it is also hopeful. However, you need enormous rpm to match the
> energy density of off-the-shelf batteries. Making flywheels that can
> stand such rpms, and the associated motor/generator and controller, has
> turned out to be a non-trivial effort.
The idea of using flywheels as "batteries" in vehicles is long standing and
routinely unfinished work.
"Exotic Auto Venture Is $24-Million Nonstarter"
http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980601/939.html
(although to give Rosen Motors their due, they also started Capstone Micro
Turbines. http://www.capstoneturbine.com)
Talking about flywheels in vehicles strikes me as missing the obvious
application, namely fixed location energy storage. Imagine a evacuated
flywheel motor/generator set in a strong bottle, buried in the ground. The
connection is but a couple of pairs of wires: 1 pair for the energy source,
the other for the load. Connect solar and/or wind power to the first pair,
whatever to the second. You now have a storage device that has no external
controls, no chemicals, no maintenance (assuming the vacuum can be made to hold
and the magnetic bearings never wear), and no chemical pollution from the
source nor the storage. That sounds like a solution for electricity in many
otherwise inaccessible places. Or even in town. I worked for a company that
investigated flywheel energy storage in the 1990s. The flywheel itself was
made out of carbon fiber. (I don't know why that effort didn't go anywhere.)
The best flywheel would be big, heavy, and relatively slow turning. The idea
is if the wheel ever failed it would turn into _very_ hot cotton candy in a
buried vacuum bottle.
-- Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark , as the engine is wearing out on my lawn mower I to am thinking
more about putting a electric motor on my mower, .Some of the things I have
going for me are . minutes
Pros
1 Most of the yards I cut are 1/4 acre and take less that 20 min of cutting
time
2 I could re charge the mower form my truck , or put a set of golf cart
batteries on the trailer , charging the mower while doing the weed wacking ,
and driving to the next yard.
3 lawn mower engines are ( 20 hp) over 1k and last around 1,000 hours ( 1
dollar per hour) .
Cons
1 weight is a big deal , if the mower is to heavy it will make ruts in the
lawn .
2 unlike a car , the engine is working hard most of the time , while cutting
so heavy amp draw.
I have a ge motor that's a little smaller that the 6.7" adc but rated at 10
hp ( have to look again ) . next ,, 6 orbitals ( 250 lbs :-( pumping out
100 amps for 15 min ? 7,200 watts or around 8 hp. this doesn't look to
good , but those are electric horses.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <
The craftsman tractor my father gave me died. The repair bill is at
minimum half the cost of new one so I was thinking of converting it to
electric. It was a 15.5hp automatic with a 2 blade 42" deck. I only need
to mow 3/4" an acre of lawn.
I'm a 3 blade 50 " deck ,
The riding mowers look like they use 3hp for moving and 1hp each blade. I
don't think I should need much more then that as or is a tractor that much
different?
I think it may be less for the moving but a lot more for the blades. I can
idle the engine and still drive around , ... I'd like to know for somebody
with a electrak how many amp they are using , when cutting , I think there
36v .
steve clunn
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Diesel/electric locomotives are very efficient.
They use massive 2 stroke low rpm engines.
700 cu in per cylinder and 900 Max rpm.
No batteries.
So, why not use a small diesel running the EV motor with a small battery
pack for burst acceleration?
Another way would to size the battery pack for a percent of most local
trips, say 12 miles, and charge off the grid for that.
You could make the 12 mile trip and need not start the diesel.
Has anyone made a ICE/electric where the ICE could power the motor without
any battery backup?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi
as some of you know i bought one of the little reva
electric cars a few weeks ago from Going Green in
London
the car has a few minor problems that need fixing
as London is 130 miles from where I live I asked them
to let me have a workshop manual or tech details so I
could fix the problems myself (and increase my
knowledge of the thing incase I wanted to modify it)
their answer was no
they say that this sort of information is classified
and cannot be released as it is "commercialy
sensitive"
so i emailed the factory in india - they just
forwarded my mail back to london who again told me
that any repairs or modifications would have to be
done by them and they would not give me any technical
information whatsoever
since you can buy manuals for just about every thing
else in the world - am i being unreasonable here or do
they have a valid point ?
opinions please
reb
___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Following is and email I recieved from China on the
price of these batteries:
Thanks for your email 28/1/05.
We still haven't any agent or distributor in United
States, if you have any request of our products, you
can direct
order from us.
If you are looking the battery for electric cars or
scooters, that is our Power Battery. For your
information, our
Powe Batteries 12V12AH for Scooters & 12V20AH for
electric motorcycles are common used for manufactures
in China, they selling in China market and export to
USA and EU. Our 12V33AH for electric cars are using by
one Germany company for their Three-Wheeler Electric
cars.
Reference Price: US$0.16- US$0.18 per V/AH FOB China
Port.
Minimum order: One 20' containeer
Delivery: within 90 days after confirmed order.
Payment: By Irrevocable Letter of Credit in our
favour.
Thanks and Regards,
Harry Hui
--- toltec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> this product was breifly discussed on the list in
> janurary of this
> year... here is a summary from the manufacturer's
> website (no pricing
> info found)
>
> Guineng Silicon batteries...
> (used in German e-Max scooter)
>
> http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm
>
> "...electrolyte of liquid low sodium silicate
> compound..."
>
> "The disposed electrolyte, in the state of
> semi-solid grains, is a high
> quality fertilizer..
>
> [cannot explicitly tell from web site if electrode
> is lead, or some
> other material... a physical specs table -
> http://www.guineng.com/work.htm - lists the
> "Avoirdupois" (which I take
> to mean "weight" but translates on bablefish as "to
> have pea"?!) for
> their various batteries ranging from ~15-40kg, which
> is heavy, and the
> silicon electrolite chemistry is repeatedly stated
> to be better than
> sulfuric acid, so it's likely they are using lead
> for the electrode]
>
>
> http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_02.htm
> some specs...
>
> ? High current recharge. (0.8C---1.0C)
> ? High current discharge. The battery will not be
> damaged when
> discharging within 8 seconds at the temperature of
> 30°C. Deep discharge
> is allowed. [discharge elsewhere listed at "3-30C"]
> ? Low self-discharge.After fully charged, the
> battery can be used within
> one year at a normal temperature.
> ? No memory effect for charging or discharging
> ? Functions normally between 50°C--+70°C
> ? Sealed with a release valve. Maintenance free.
> ? Over 400 times of recharging.
>
>
> ...could be good for racing, if the 30C discharge
> rate is real, yes?...
>
>
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Didn't you used to have an elec-trak before you moved to Texas?
Anyway, I have a couple ET's. Let me first say that I really like these
tractors. Then let me encourage you to convert
the Craftsman. Done right, it will be much better than the ET.
In particular you have the advantage of having belt drive to the mower blades.
While that does take an efficiency hit,
it is a much better idea than having the blades mounted directly to the shaft
of a PM moter. Do you know what happens
to a PM motor magnet when it is hot and something jars the motor violently.
Such as hitting a rock. Well, I do, and so
do many others. The magnet unglues itself from the case. Then with nothing to
hold it back it suicidingly hurls
itdself into the rapidly spinning armature. Where it then shatters into a
million and six pieces. I may have
exxagerated a little there, but you get the picture. NOW, if the blades were
belt driven, the shock would be absorbed
and you wouldn't be shelling out $300.00 for a new motor. Oh, btw, in my
opinion the 300.00 is at least 6 times what
the motor is worth, but we don't have very many options. Yet.
Anyway, use John's Heavy Metal Garden Tractor as a pretty good design starting
point, and "git er done".
Calm down John!!! I meant pretty good because Mark is more concerned about
mowing and not sound-off competition.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Wayland
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:51 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Mark Hastings wrote:
>
>> The craftman tractor my father gave me died... I was thinking of
> converting it to electric....I have looked online at some riding mower
> conversions but besides the electrak I haven't seen a tractor.
>
> Mark, you don't know about my 'Heavy Metal Garden Tractor'? It's on the EV
> Photo Album, been there since '98 or so.
> Formerly an MTD, the same people who make the Sears Craftsman tractors.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/29/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hi
> as some of you know i bought one of the little reva
> electric cars a few weeks ago from Going Green in
> London
> the car has a few minor problems that need fixing
> as London is 130 miles from where I live I asked them
> to let me have a workshop manual or tech details so I
> could fix the problems myself (and increase my
> knowledge of the thing incase I wanted to modify it)
> their answer was no
> they say that this sort of information is classified
> and cannot be released as it is "commercialy
> sensitive"
> so i emailed the factory in india - they just
> forwarded my mail back to london who again told me
> that any repairs or modifications would have to be
> done by them and they would not give me any technical
> information whatsoever
A direct contact might work. There was a guy on the list a couple of
years ago, he joined Reva in India as a graduate. I don't think
Prasad is on the list any more but his email was
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> since you can buy manuals for just about every thing
> else in the world - am i being unreasonable here or do
> they have a valid point ?
Well, they probably don't want car mechanics monkeying about with it.
Having recently experienced some supposedly trained "experts" messing
with my van, I dread to think what an untrained tech would do to it!
What's wrong anyway? Apart from the flashy computer gimmick, they're
dead simple, surely?
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
Convert 'em!!
Or maybe I have a better idea. I'll call you with it tonite.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:46 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
>
> Hi Mark , as the engine is wearing out on my lawn mower I to am thinking
> more about putting a electric motor on my mower, .Some of the things I have
> going for me are . minutes Pros
> 1 Most of the yards I cut are 1/4 acre and take less that 20 min of cutting
> time
My ET mows my entire 2 acres on one charge.
> 2 I could re charge the mower form my truck , or put a set of golf cart
> batteries on the trailer , charging the mower while doing the weed wacking ,
> and driving to the next yard.
> 3 lawn mower engines are ( 20 hp) over 1k and last around 1,000 hours ( 1
> dollar per hour) .
ET mower motors are prohibitively expensive. I'm currently researching
alternatives.
>
> Cons
> 1 weight is a big deal , if the mower is to heavy it will make ruts in the
> lawn .
My ET has 6 T-105's (Exide Equivalents). I weighs about 1500 lbs with me and
the mower deck on it. It does NOT leave
ruts in the lawn unless the lawn is really really wet.(soft)
> 2 unlike a car , the engine is working hard most of the time , while cutting
> so heavy amp draw.
>
> I have a ge motor that's a little smaller that the 6.7" adc but rated at 10
> hp ( have to look again ) . next ,, 6 orbitals ( 250 lbs :-( pumping out
> 100 amps for 15 min ? 7,200 watts or around 8 hp. this doesn't look to
> good , but those are electric horses.
The GE ET drive motor is a 2 - 2.5 hp golf cart motor inside. I'll post the
actual motor number later and Jim Husted
can tell us what it is.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hastings" <
>
>> The craftsman tractor my father gave me died. The repair bill is at
>> minimum half the cost of new one so I was thinking of converting it
>> to electric. It was a 15.5hp automatic with a 2 blade 42" deck. I only
>> need to mow 3/4" an acre of lawn.
>
> I'm a 3 blade 50 " deck ,
I'm a 3 blade 42" deck. One guy made his own 5 blade 70" deck. He said he
stopped at 70" because that's how big his
barn doors opened.
>
> The riding mowers look like they use 3hp for moving and 1hp each blade. I
> don't think I should need much more then that as or is a tractor that much
> different?
> I think it may be less for the moving but a lot more for the blades. I can
> idle the engine and still drive around , ... I'd like to know for somebody
> with a electrak how many amp they are using , when cutting , I think there
> 36v .
Pretty close guess.
About 75 amps. Depends on grade, grass height, grass type, and grass water level
> steve clunn
>
>
>
>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark Hastings
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/29/05, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I worked for a company that
> investigated flywheel energy storage in the 1990s. The flywheel itself was
> made out of carbon fiber. (I don't know why that effort didn't go anywhere.)
> The best flywheel would be big, heavy, and relatively slow turning. The idea
> is if the wheel ever failed it would turn into _very_ hot cotton candy in a
> buried vacuum bottle.
I posted a link a couple of days ago to a company making a small
flywheel for a UPS application. http://www.afstrinity.com/specs.html
I read somewhere that the reason modern flywheel experiments often use
carbon fibre is that the energy storage goes up linearly with mass,
but ^2 with velocity. So lighter, stronger, faster wheels give more
storage per size / weight / materials used, and this is the approach
used whenever it's mentioned for hybrids vehicles etc. Although as
you suggest, the drawbacks of a big heavy wheel are not so critical
for fixed power backup, and it'd be a great benefit for renewable
energy storage.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, This was done back in 1975's driving Transformers I's EV by the Electric
Fuel Propulsion Company that was base in Troy, Mich.
This is a 37.5 KW 3 phase alternator which was rectified with a 900 amp rating
3 phase rectifier, (3-300 diodes per phase) that provided 250 VDC at 300 amp
that can drive a 32 HP DC series GE traction motor directly.
This was a option, I could have bought for $8000.00 at that time. It can used
to transport the EV a longer distance for about 500 miles. This unit can also
be used as a standby generator for your home and on site power units for
contractors.
In comparison test between a ICE and the EV with the same weight, the ICE would
get 17 mpg while the EV would get 25 mpg. The engine driving the generator,
was set at a constant 3600 RPM which than can be tuned for the maximum
efficiency at that RPM.
Yes, it can be done. It becomes more efficient in larger rigs. It depends on
how much tons per mile you want to transport.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu or Jan<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:52 AM
Subject: A Diesel/Electric car possibility
Diesel/electric locomotives are very efficient.
They use massive 2 stroke low rpm engines.
700 cu in per cylinder and 900 Max rpm.
No batteries.
So, why not use a small diesel running the EV motor with a small battery
pack for burst acceleration?
Another way would to size the battery pack for a percent of most local
trips, say 12 miles, and charge off the grid for that.
You could make the 12 mile trip and need not start the diesel.
Has anyone made a ICE/electric where the ICE could power the motor without
any battery backup?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another idea is go to haborfreight.com they have a
couple pumps available. Including a pump head that you
attach your own motor to. Also If you are thinking
submersible Walmart, Lowes and Home Depot have water
fountain pumps. Just a couple sources I thought of.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to find a small 12v DC marine bilge
> pump, about 2 gpm..
> > seen any this small (low amps mainly)?
>
> Googling on "bilge pumps" turns up this useful
> review:
>
> <http://www.powerboat-reports.com/sample/bilge.html>
>
> Looking at the data, it appears that either the Rule
> 24 or West Marine
> 500 may be the closest match for your needs. Both
> flow over 2x what you
> are looking for (i.e. 255-330gph vs 120gph). The
> Rule moves a little
> less water but draws a bit more current ([EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]). The
> West Marine draws [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] Both
> are cheap.
>
> I haven't seen any rated for less flow than these,
> but if you search the
> marine stores you might find one. The other option
> might be simply
> using a windshield washer pump, however, you'd have
> to test it to see if
> it is actually any less thirsty than these, and to
> see if it stands up
> to continuous (or near continuous) operation for the
> 30-60min that a
> conversion can typically drive on a charge.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Roger.
>
>
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took the battery and tach to the farthest corner of our back desk last
night, no other houses for hundreds of feet, but still got the steady 2000
RPM reading. Could there still be EMI interference out there? The reading
is actually 2400 RPM, which is exactly 60 HZ at 1.5 pulses for revolution
(60 HZ * 60 seconds / 1.5) so I am suspicious that that's the culprit.
The noise suppression filter actually has a resistor in it through which the
sense line runs, though I don't know the resistor's value. The filter looks
like this:
Sense
|
|
\
/ R1
\
/
|
| C1
+-----| |----- Ground
|
|
|
Ground or Pulses
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dean Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 5:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Tachometer Hookup
>I'm at a loss on the tachometer. I hooked up the noise suppression filter
>and hooked the tach to a 12V battery. But as soon as I make the
>connection, it shoots up to 2000 RPM and stays there. I've triple checked
>that I've got the correct wires going to the places they should.
>
>Bill Dennis
Bill, did you try what Roger said? I.e. hooking the sense input to -ve (via
a resistor) when you test the tach.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Roger Stockton wrote:
Zilla cooling
popular route using a submersible aquarium pump; not sure why more
people don't use readily available submersible 12V bilge pumps
instead...
Bilge pumps are usually designed for greater flow rates than the zilla
requires. The pumps also tend to be noisy and power hungry. The
aquarium pumps while requiring a small inverter (small 25 watt inverters
are available for about $20 at walmart) are much quieter, use very
little power and run forever. The maxjet? pump otmar recommends is
nearly completely inaudible.. in the garage with everything else off it
can just be heard as a almost inperceptible 60hz hum in the car.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe the E-tek is the best bet. The shaft should mate with the
pulley for the tractor, and the bolt holes should match up with a 15hp
Intek.
The big problem is batteries. You can load the front down with T105's,
but then it would be unbalanced. Might be better to go with 36 volts of
small AGMs spread through the tractor. My 15.5hp tractor had a tall
transmission in the back, and thus no place to mount batteries (tank was
in front). One could also put the batteries either in a cart or a
yard-carrying case mounted on the back of the tractor.
Chris
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
Hi Mark , as the engine is wearing out on my lawn mower I to am thinking
more about putting a electric motor on my mower, .Some of the things I
have going for me are . minutes
Pros
1 Most of the yards I cut are 1/4 acre and take less that 20 min of
cutting time
2 I could re charge the mower form my truck , or put a set of golf cart
batteries on the trailer , charging the mower while doing the weed
wacking , and driving to the next yard.
3 lawn mower engines are ( 20 hp) over 1k and last around 1,000 hours (
1 dollar per hour) .
Cons
1 weight is a big deal , if the mower is to heavy it will make ruts in
the lawn .
2 unlike a car , the engine is working hard most of the time , while
cutting so heavy amp draw.
I have a ge motor that's a little smaller that the 6.7" adc but rated at
10 hp ( have to look again ) . next ,, 6 orbitals ( 250 lbs :-(
pumping out 100 amps for 15 min ? 7,200 watts or around 8 hp. this
doesn't look to good , but those are electric horses.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hastings" <
The craftsman tractor my father gave me died. The repair bill is at
minimum half the cost of new one so I was thinking of converting it
to electric. It was a 15.5hp automatic with a 2 blade 42" deck. I only
need to mow 3/4" an acre of lawn.
I'm a 3 blade 50 " deck ,
The riding mowers look like they use 3hp for moving and 1hp each blade.
I don't think I should need much more then that as or is a tractor that
much different?
I think it may be less for the moving but a lot more for the blades. I
can idle the engine and still drive around , ... I'd like to know for
somebody with a electrak how many amp they are using , when cutting , I
think there 36v .
steve clunn
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to humbly propose that if you wish to start a new topic on the
list that it be done by creating an entirely new message, and NOT by
replying to an existing message and changing the subject line.
In mail programs that handle threading properly (most these days, though
not turned on by default), these new messages are listed as replies in
the thread, and appear (inappropriately) in the wrong thread tree.
A recent example (not to single anyone out, as there are multiple
instances) is the "Re: Welding on the cheap, part 3, High Frequency"
thread that appeared on 6/24. The 2nd reply in this thread is titled
"Re:acceleration problem/help". The header of that message specifically
references the message it appears to be a reply to; additionally, it
even quotes the welding email.
As it is, if I had had no interest in the welding thread, I wouldn't
have even seen the new question, as it would have been "folded away"
under the welding title. Conversely, I can't offer help with this
problem, and it is cluttering up the welding discussion.
-- Eric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
Imagine scaling that down to a 1,000 -1,500 curb weight car.
A 7.5 hp diesel (biodiesel?), a motor driving one wheel (no differential), a
10KW generator, and enough batteries for the short trips.
Perhaps a 2F1R but I see more battery space in a 2F2R car.
I understand that a 3 wheeler is easier to license as a motorcycle.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A Diesel/Electric car possibility
Yes, This was done back in 1975's driving Transformers I's EV by the
Electric Fuel Propulsion Company that was base in Troy, Mich.
This is a 37.5 KW 3 phase alternator which was rectified with a 900 amp
rating 3 phase rectifier, (3-300 diodes per phase) that provided 250 VDC at
300 amp that can drive a 32 HP DC series GE traction motor directly.
This was a option, I could have bought for $8000.00 at that time. It can
used to transport the EV a longer distance for about 500 miles. This unit
can also be used as a standby generator for your home and on site power
units for contractors.
In comparison test between a ICE and the EV with the same weight, the ICE
would get 17 mpg while the EV would get 25 mpg. The engine driving the
generator, was set at a constant 3600 RPM which than can be tuned for the
maximum efficiency at that RPM.
Yes, it can be done. It becomes more efficient in larger rigs. It depends
on how much tons per mile you want to transport.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had 4. Which I gave away to a good EVer home before the move out of my house
in CT because I couldn't afford to move or store them as I was going to be in
an apartment for a while. Through a bunch of boring details now I have the dead
gasoline tractor and a 3/4 acre of lawn to mow in North Texas.
I didn't realize MTD was craftsman so that is a good sign. I'll try and get as
much as I can off of John Wayland's evalbum pics and other. I'm going to hunt
for some used and surplus motors but waiting for a good deal may be more costly
then paying for someone to do my lawn. Pricewise new I was looking at 2 eteks
because the smaller HP motors are almost the same price and the D&D motors are
high cost and too overpowered. One motor to move and one motor for the blades.
I guess I could try one motor overall but I think using all the existing belts
would be too big a loss. Sure would make it a really quick conversion though.
Mark Hastings
Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mark,
Didn't you used to have an elec-trak before you moved to Texas?
Anyway, I have a couple ET's. Let me first say that I really like these
tractors. Then let me encourage you to convert
the Craftsman. Done right, it will be much better than the ET.
In particular you have the advantage of having belt drive to the mower blades.
While that does take an efficiency hit,
it is a much better idea than having the blades mounted directly to the shaft
of a PM moter. Do you know what happens
to a PM motor magnet when it is hot and something jars the motor violently.
Such as hitting a rock. Well, I do, and so
do many others. The magnet unglues itself from the case. Then with nothing to
hold it back it suicidingly hurls
itdself into the rapidly spinning armature. Where it then shatters into a
million and six pieces. I may have
exxagerated a little there, but you get the picture. NOW, if the blades were
belt driven, the shock would be absorbed
and you wouldn't be shelling out $300.00 for a new motor. Oh, btw, in my
opinion the 300.00 is at least 6 times what
the motor is worth, but we don't have very many options. Yet.
Anyway, use John's Heavy Metal Garden Tractor as a pretty good design starting
point, and "git er done".
Calm down John!!! I meant pretty good because Mark is more concerned about
mowing and not sound-off competition.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Wayland
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:51 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Mark Hastings wrote:
>
>> The craftman tractor my father gave me died... I was thinking of
> converting it to electric....I have looked online at some riding mower
> conversions but besides the electrak I haven't seen a tractor.
>
> Mark, you don't know about my 'Heavy Metal Garden Tractor'? It's on the EV
> Photo Album, been there since '98 or so.
> Formerly an MTD, the same people who make the Sears Craftsman tractors.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi evan
thanks for the address
nothing major wrong with the reva
the diff casing leaks oil - i don't know the torque
settings or what oil it takes (90 probably)
it would be nice to turn the irksome chime off that
operates every two seconds when you open the doors,put
the handbrake on etc
it has economy tyres on it which are really dreadful
and need changing - it would be nice to have torque
figures for the wheelnuts etc
reb
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 6/29/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > hi
> > as some of you know i bought one of the little
> reva
> > electric cars a few weeks ago from Going Green in
> > London
> > the car has a few minor problems that need fixing
> > as London is 130 miles from where I live I asked
> them
> > to let me have a workshop manual or tech details
> so I
> > could fix the problems myself (and increase my
> > knowledge of the thing incase I wanted to modify
> it)
> > their answer was no
> > they say that this sort of information is
> classified
> > and cannot be released as it is "commercialy
> > sensitive"
> > so i emailed the factory in india - they just
> > forwarded my mail back to london who again told me
> > that any repairs or modifications would have to be
> > done by them and they would not give me any
> technical
> > information whatsoever
>
> A direct contact might work. There was a guy on the
> list a couple of
> years ago, he joined Reva in India as a graduate. I
> don't think
> Prasad is on the list any more but his email was
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > since you can buy manuals for just about every
> thing
> > else in the world - am i being unreasonable here
> or do
> > they have a valid point ?
>
> Well, they probably don't want car mechanics
> monkeying about with it.
> Having recently experienced some supposedly trained
> "experts" messing
> with my van, I dread to think what an untrained
> tech would do to it!
>
> What's wrong anyway? Apart from the flashy computer
> gimmick, they're
> dead simple, surely?
>
> --
>
> EVan
> http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
>
>
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--- End Message ---
