EV Digest 5606
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: found:94 chevy s10 us electricar truck
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Looking for EV project web log recommendations
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Electric Cobra Project
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Rustbelt/Manufacturing area of Ohio & PA get no WKTEC. (Who killed the
EV)
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: White Zombie PIR June 30th & New DC-DC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) pml's new concept car... can it be as good as it sounds?
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: found:94 chevy s10 us electricar truck
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: WKTEC
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Lewis, Brian K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: pml's new concept car... can it be as good as it sounds?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Best cruising RPM
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: bender...and cutting
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 300ZX Hybrid
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Lugs Loosen Up
by Joel Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Yes! Now this is what I was hoping for. Since my morning brow-beating,
in just this short time, Matt's vote count has jumped 20 points to 4174,
where the Mustang hs only gone up one to 4143. Thanks everyone for
pulling through...keep those votes coming.
Where's all the EVDL support for Matt?... I just voted this morning,
but Matt's car is only 12 votes ahead at 4154 compared to the
Mustang's 4142. Only today and tomorrow are left before the July car
of the month is chosen. It would be a shame to see Matt's car lose
this close race for the spotlight that 1000's of folks view. Please,
take a whole 30 seconds to vote...it's that easy.
John Wayland wrote:
Please, go here to support your tireless EV drag racers, and VOTE:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a friend of mine put it to me. "You spent $5k on an AC drive system
and got the truck thrown in for free."
Truer words were never spoken.
They have some weak spots that are being addressed. But are good
vehicles overall.
We are here if you want USE help.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/messages
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> mike young wrote:
> > Hi everybody, I just located and will be picking up a 94 s10 very
clean
> > body top to bottom and underneath and has been sitting for a
couple yrs
> > so will need work but it looks complete.It says hughes vector on the
> > controller under the hood.I am just wondering if it is interesting to
> > anybody on the list.Email with phone # and i can call you or email
if u
> > want to make a deal.I think it will be around $3000.It will be the
end
> > of the wk before I pick it up.the thing has like 6000 miles on the
> > odometer and it looks it. I live in upstate New York. I would love to
> > keep it but I have enough ev's now to outfit the family with 4
solectria
> > force cars plus bob rices parts solectria car I am thankful for.As
for
> > the 94 belt drive solectria force I just got the gearbox back from
the
> > machine shop after they installed all new gears and bearings of their
> > design.It happily runs and drives again. let me know what you guys
think
> > about this Us electricar s10 pickup. Thanks Mike young
>
> Yep, US Electricar truck. Just to let people know, we have been making
> serious strides towards getting these things fully operational. Between
> Mike, Andy, and myself we can fix a lot of the problems that have
popped up.
>
> Just don't rip out the controller and motor; it's nicer than you think.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
Not my site, just a happy user. It does have blog software (although
I don't think anyone has used it yet). You can only access it if you
have been set up with an account for posting a web page.
The blog software @ evforge.net is this:
http://www.phpblogger.com/
Just register at the site, and there will be a simple form to request a
free web account.
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A guy is starting to make an electric Factory Five Cobra replica.
Looks like he is talking about some serious speed.
<http://ssinc.us/kitcar/>
Here is some discussion on a Cobra board:
<http://www.ffcobra.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/5/t/002889.html>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know what you have to do? You need to call area theaters and ask
them to show the film.
In the Washington DC area, it's showing at 3 theaters but for 2 of
them, our illustrious EVA/DC Prez, Dave Goldstein made the rounds and
personally asked those theaters if they could show the film and they
actually agreed.
If it's a Sony Theater they may be more apt to show the film since it
is a Sony film. Although that may not make a bit of difference.
But it's like EVerything else we have to do with promoting EVs. It's
pretty much up to the grass roots movement folks like us to get the
word out.
So call a few area theaters or stop by and ask them to show the film.
Have some URLs handy about the film and list the actors involved so
the management can check it out.
Even in a big metropolis like the Washington DC Metropolitan area
which includes Northern Virginia, Suburban Maryland and DC Dave had
to go knock on doors of area theaters to get them to show the film.
And Chris Paine is asking everyone to do what they can to promote the
film.
Oh . . . also mention the word "Oscar." There was talk at the LA Film
Festival the movie may be up for one. It's not official but that may
get their attention as well.
Every little bit helps.
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 29, 2006 11:22:04 AM EDT
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Rustbelt/Manufacturing area of Ohio & PA get no WKTEC. (Who
killed the EV)
Cincinati is the only Ohio showing & Pittsburgh gets none. They must
think
this area of Ohio and Eastern PA is a bunch of hicks. I beg to
differ. My
relatives have had a paddle wheel generator for thirty years on their
local
stream(on their property) My uncle has used his 40 acre stand of
hardwood to
run his heating for 20 years. A hot fired water system. These are
just the
smart and inventive kind of people who have serviced industry for
years that
have the skills to build electrics. My uncles and cousins can weld, do
electrical installations, run a backhoe and multiple other tasks that
require grunt and enough brains not to kill yourself with an out of
control
machine that was probably operator error in the first place. My
uncles also
owned a cement/block plant and did quite well for themselves. They
always
had nice houses & cars & I bet if given the chance would have bought an
electric. These are no nonsense people that if shown a good product
will
buy one or make it themselves. . Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not aware that the 200-series Vicor's had an over-current shutdown.
They do have current limit however. I have run 200-series Vicors steadily in
current mode for 11-hours or longer without any shutdown---just current
limiting.
This has worked for me with 24, 48 and 72v output modules and in Driver or
Booster configuration with the whole bunch used in a Megapac unit as an
isolated charger for my EVs---one boat, one antique Milburn.
So far I haven't bothered with any isolation diodes on outputs, and the inputs
are moot since mine plug into the 300v backplane of the Megapac.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi Chris-
> Glad to hear the results of your testing. I've been thinking about it
> some more, and I think the fault I had that required a power-cycle reset
> on the 200-series(?) Vicors I was using (some years ago now - da'
> memory's kinda' rusty) was an over-current shutdown, rather than an
> under-voltage shutdown. What is the model/part number of the Vicor(s)
> you set up for John?
> cheers,
> Andrew
>
> Chris Brune wrote:
> > Hi Andrew,
> > I bench tested the module with a 600V power supply. It did not require
> > power cycling to come back on after going below the under-voltage point.
> > According to the data sheet it looks like the module has an auto-restart
> > feature. It checks every 2-20ms and restarts when the "fault" has been
> > cleared.
> >
> > I don't have any other experience with Vicor modules so I can't comment on
> > if other modules do this. I ran the unit both below the under-voltage and
> > over-voltage and did not reset power in between, it always restarted on its
> > own.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chris Brune
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andrew Letton"
> >
> >>Hi John-
> >>The new DC-DC sounds great.
> >>Have you actually confirmed that the Vicor will "come back to life" when
> >>the voltage rises after the drag run? I'm fairly certain that the
> >>Vicors I've used required that you cycle the input power off and on to
> >>reset them after they shut themselves down. Something to check on...
> >>Wish I could be there to see ya' run on Friday.
> >>cheers,
> >>Andrew
> >>
> >>John Wayland wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hello to All,
> >>>
> >>>The weather stilll looks perfect for this Friday night's attempt at the
> >>>11s, with the daytime temp. upped from 80 to 85 now. Tim reminded me he
> >>>had made his annual plans to take off with his buddies to party the long
> >>>4th of July weekend, starting 6-30 and blasting on through the 4th on
> >>>Tuesday, in Central Oregon. Soooo...the old man himself will be driving
> >>>the Zombie! Yup, I'm back in the saddle for this weekend's runs, and I'm
> >>>pumped about taking Tim's record from him :-)
> >>>My friend Chris Brune surprised me with a DC-DC he put together for
> >>>White Zombie.
> >>
> >>[snip]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John, all
I wanted to say thanks again for the reminder. Being that Matt is poised to
take this month, what a wonderful way to acknowlege all Matts efforts with back
to back EVents he's attended here lately. Not to say others aren't doing it as
well, but here we have the oppertunity to show our support. With that said
I've also been guilty of letting life get in the way. This post proded me to
be more attentive.
I saw a post about the numbers being hard to see, and it's a fact! I'll
reload the page if I can't read them if a real funky group come up.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
Yes! Now this is what I was hoping for. Since my morning brow-beating,
in just this short time, Matt's vote count has jumped 20 points to 4174,
where the Mustang hs only gone up one to 4143. Thanks everyone for
pulling through...keep those votes coming.
>
> Where's all the EVDL support for Matt?... I just voted this morning,
> but Matt's car is only 12 votes ahead at 4154 compared to the
> Mustang's 4142. Only today and tomorrow are left before the July car
> of the month is chosen. It would be a shame to see Matt's car lose
> this close race for the spotlight that 1000's of folks view. Please,
> take a whole 30 seconds to vote...it's that easy.
>
> John Wayland wrote:
>
>> Please, go here to support your tireless EV drag racers, and VOTE:
>>
>> http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
>
>
>
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On final thought after reading the many great responses to the post....
If ANY of us uses or has R-12 (Freon) in their EVs, PEV's or PHEV's, we may as
well be driving a H1 Hummer.
-EVRIDER
There's a hole in the bucket....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Received this in an email today (invitation to an unveiling at the
british motor show...i cropped out most of the 3+ pages of marketing
schpiel)
and if they are even close to the specifications they list, they could
be onto a real winner...what do you think?
Slightly dubious about the tiny engine and claimed 4-5 hrs 50mph running
time on a 25 kw-hr battery..
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Super Mini QED - Quad Electric Drive
The PML solution, which can be seen at the British Motor Show at the
Excel centre, London from 18th July this year, strips away all of the
misconceptions about electric hybrid vehicles to showcase a truly
awesome car.
Take a standard BMW Mini One:
Discard the engine, the disc brakes, the wheels, and the gearbox. Add
instead four electric wheels, a lithium polymer battery, a large "super
capacitor", a very small IC engine with generator (so small it fits
alongside the spare wheel!), an energy management system and a sexy
in-car display module. Give the vehicle 3 modes of operation, Eco mode
for in town/city frequent start-stop operation, Normal mode for daily
commuting and equivalent ICE car operation and Sport mode for all the
bells and whistles you would expect from a super car.
Result: Super Mini QED
0 - 60mph 4.5sec (Mini Cooper S around 7.5sec)
Top speed (where allowed) approx. 150mph
Electric only operation time 4 - 5 hours commute at 50mph or less
Fuel economy approx. 80mpg (when powered by the generator)
No loss of passenger or boot space
Weight distribution and handling as original vehicle
3 driving modes Eco, Normal and Sport
"Look no brakes!"
All braking is performed by the wheel motors acting as very efficient
electrical generators which return almost all of the energy back to the
battery system. The beauty of this system is that unlike a conventional
vehicle your green conscience can be quite content even when
accelerating hard, since you are assured of collecting most of this
expended energy should you have to slow down quickly!
ABS - forget that pulsating foot!
Because the wheels are high performance motors, ABS comes as a standard
function built into each wheel's software. Now anti-skid can also be
applied to acceleration since the motor can smoothly control torque
delivery to/from the road in both cases. Slamming your foot to the floor
results in controlled maximum torque, giving the shortest possible
stopping or acceleration time.
Clever wheels!
No need for crude differential gears to share power between left and
right sides. The wheels are in constant communication with each other
deciding 1000 times each second how much torque share is optimum for the
current driving conditions. Should one wheel detect a slippery surface
and take appropriate anti-skid actions, the other wheels are aware of
this instantly and adopt an appropriate compensating strategy to keep
the vehicle as stable as possible.
Brake horsepower?
Each wheel develops 160bhp!! Yes that is correct, 640bhp in total! The
original Mini One develops less than 100bhp with an engine that weighs
nearly double the weight of the four electric wheels! Apart from wheel
bearings there are no wearing parts in the electric wheels; this means
the horsepower stays for the life of the vehicle - and beyond!
Charging?
As the battery level reduces, the rear mounted engine/generator starts
to automatically top up the battery. So when you arrive at your
destination you can simply park the vehicle knowing that when you return
the battery will be replenished! Alternatively you can take advantage of
lower cost mains electricity and plug in to recharge. Driving along the
motorway to visit friends in Manchester - no need to worry about battery
capacity or how to recharge. As the level falls the generator is started
to sustain an average speed of 60 - 70mph with no further battery
depletion.
Super capacitor - super acceleration!
Capacitors are used to store electrical energy. The difference between
batteries and capacitors is that capacitors can release/absorb their
energy 10 times faster than a battery. For acceleration or power boost
at higher speeds the capacitor enables nitro-like performance, more than
doubling the power from the battery during these events. Very efficient
energy recovery means next to nothing is wasted during stop start city
travel. The capacitors also allow the battery to have an extended life
by smoothing out any peak loads.
Energy flow management
A significant key to super performance is optimum energy management.
Continuously deciding where energy flows should be - battery, super
capacitor, generator, wheels. By clever optimisation of the flows, best
use can be made of available reserves, allowing a fun driving experience
whilst protecting the planet.
Small engine and generator
The IC engine weighs a mere 15kg (less than 1/10th of the original Mini
One engine) and delivers 15kw. A high efficiency electrical generator
is fitted to the engine to provide power when the battery depletion
level demands. The key point is the engine is run at a continuous speed
and load - which results in optimum efficiency fuel conversion. After
delivering the energy to the battery system the mile equivalent
translates to around 80mpg!
In-car display
With all this advanced technology the driver needs to have clear and
complete information presented to him. The in-car display module
provides the latest touch screen technology with intuitive display and
scroll options. Showing available mileage subdivided by battery and fuel
along with boost status, the display gives comprehensive information. Of
course the display shows speed and warning functions, but further it is
GPRS enabled allowing:
Remote diagnosis of any fault to allow the "AA" man to come prepared
Auto tracking of speed limits (optional!)
Auto management of generator to prevent inner city operation
History storage and system configuration interface.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
great I think i will go pick it up soon. mike y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Christopher Zach" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: found:94 chevy s10 us electricar truck
As a friend of mine put it to me. "You spent $5k on an AC drive system
and got the truck thrown in for free."
Truer words were never spoken.
They have some weak spots that are being addressed. But are good
vehicles overall.
We are here if you want USE help.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/messages
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
mike young wrote:
> Hi everybody, I just located and will be picking up a 94 s10 very
clean
> body top to bottom and underneath and has been sitting for a
couple yrs
> so will need work but it looks complete.It says hughes vector on the
> controller under the hood.I am just wondering if it is interesting to
> anybody on the list.Email with phone # and i can call you or email
if u
> want to make a deal.I think it will be around $3000.It will be the
end
> of the wk before I pick it up.the thing has like 6000 miles on the
> odometer and it looks it. I live in upstate New York. I would love to
> keep it but I have enough ev's now to outfit the family with 4
solectria
> force cars plus bob rices parts solectria car I am thankful for.As
for
> the 94 belt drive solectria force I just got the gearbox back from
the
> machine shop after they installed all new gears and bearings of their
> design.It happily runs and drives again. let me know what you guys
think
> about this Us electricar s10 pickup. Thanks Mike young
Yep, US Electricar truck. Just to let people know, we have been making
serious strides towards getting these things fully operational. Between
Mike, Andy, and myself we can fix a lot of the problems that have
popped up.
Just don't rip out the controller and motor; it's nicer than you think.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOLER__HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
ground zero.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they are
very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me thinks
one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a heater,
so you solve two problems at once.
Jack
Jody Dewey wrote:
It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu
window
unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of
an
inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to
get
to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my
car.
This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty
quiet
for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it
takes
in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and
exhausts
it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure
will
drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and
the
unit stops working.
Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's
something
like 10k BTU.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with
an AC
inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car
but
they
are more than adequate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gail,
I had that same problem months ago......then I found that:
after placing a vote, it is necessary to click on 'Return to the Dragtimes
vehicle for which you voted' (or something to that effect.....my wording is
by memory) in order for their system to log my vote.
Good luck!
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of gail donaldson lucas
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 8:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Dragtimes Featured Car Vote Too Close...VOTE!
I tried, but three times got a message to enter a number shown in a box for
confirmation and all three times was told it was not correct. Granted I am
not the world's greatest typist but I am not that inept. Would anyone care
to offer a suggestion as to what I am doing wrong?
Gail
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.6/378 - Release Date: 6/28/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth;
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:11 AM
Subject: WKTEC
>
> I ordered my tickets for WKTEC -
> (taking my mother to the movies for a reversal :-)
Go for it! She'll love it!
>
> Do you think there will be any kind of interactions
> after the show? (It seems to be showing in only
> 2 theaters in the NY area on this date)
You Bet! I felt like being at a family reunion! I was passing out EV
stuff;' The Electric Car isn't Dead"In doing this I was able to chat with
folks that had HAD EC-1's and other folks that weresuper interested. Now,
granted, this was the grand opening at Threbecca Film Festival. Chris Paine
was there to meet, too. It was a wonderful EVening!
>
>
> Do I need to wear my "EV Owner" Tee-shirt?
> (I would need to make it :-)
> (Is that deceptive advertising? :-)
> Nope, wear something to set ya out from the crowd. MAYBE there will be
other guyz with EV related T shirts?Go up and say" Hi" I'm on the List, too.
So guyz, when yo go. Dress appropriately; Battery Beach, Power of DC,
Woodburn, what you have been buying for years!
Enjoy the Show!
Bob
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This seems too good to be true. The info in the link did not say
anything about reversing the polarity. Can anyone confirm that this
actually work that way?
Now I need a larger DC-DC
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOL
ER__HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
> Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
> My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
> ground zero.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Jack Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:31 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>
> wow that sound really kludgy, although I'd probably try something like
> that.. You might look into using thermoelectric (TEC) modules, they
are
> very power inefficient, but they can produce very cold temps. Me
thinks
>
> one could use a TEC to cool water, and pump the cold water through the
> existing heater system in a car and get cold air out the vents. The
> beauty of the TEC is reverse the polarity, and it will then be a
heater,
>
> so you solve two problems at once.
> Jack
>
> Jody Dewey wrote:
>
>>It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu
>
> window
>
>>unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of
>
> an
>
>>inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to
>
> get
>
>>to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my
>
> car.
>
>>This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty
>
> quiet
>
>>for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Behalf Of Danny Miller
>>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
>>
>>
>>The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it
>
> takes
>
>>in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and
>
> exhausts
>
>>it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
>>somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
>>actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure
>
> will
>
>>drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and
>
> the
>
>>unit stops working.
>>
>>Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
>>might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
>>
>>You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
>>BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's
>
> something
>
>>like 10k BTU.
>>
>>Danny
>>
>>Jody Dewey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with
>>
> an AC
>
>>>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car
>>
> but
>
>>they
>>
>>
>>>are more than adequate.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to know what they are using for the generator. 15 kg (33lbs) engine
delivering 15kw!
Dave Cover
--- "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Received this in an email today (invitation to an unveiling at the
> british motor show...i cropped out most of the 3+ pages of marketing
> schpiel)
>
> and if they are even close to the specifications they list, they could
> be onto a real winner...what do you think?
>
> Slightly dubious about the tiny engine and claimed 4-5 hrs 50mph running
> time on a 25 kw-hr battery..
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
>
>
>
>
>
> Super Mini QED - Quad Electric Drive
>
>
>
> The PML solution, which can be seen at the British Motor Show at the
> Excel centre, London from 18th July this year, strips away all of the
> misconceptions about electric hybrid vehicles to showcase a truly
> awesome car.
>
>
>
> Take a standard BMW Mini One:
>
> Discard the engine, the disc brakes, the wheels, and the gearbox. Add
> instead four electric wheels, a lithium polymer battery, a large "super
> capacitor", a very small IC engine with generator (so small it fits
> alongside the spare wheel!), an energy management system and a sexy
> in-car display module. Give the vehicle 3 modes of operation, Eco mode
> for in town/city frequent start-stop operation, Normal mode for daily
> commuting and equivalent ICE car operation and Sport mode for all the
> bells and whistles you would expect from a super car.
>
>
>
> Result: Super Mini QED
>
> 0 - 60mph 4.5sec (Mini Cooper S around 7.5sec)
>
> Top speed (where allowed) approx. 150mph
>
> Electric only operation time 4 - 5 hours commute at 50mph or less
>
> Fuel economy approx. 80mpg (when powered by the generator)
>
> No loss of passenger or boot space
>
> Weight distribution and handling as original vehicle
>
> 3 driving modes Eco, Normal and Sport
>
>
>
> "Look no brakes!"
>
> All braking is performed by the wheel motors acting as very efficient
> electrical generators which return almost all of the energy back to the
> battery system. The beauty of this system is that unlike a conventional
> vehicle your green conscience can be quite content even when
> accelerating hard, since you are assured of collecting most of this
> expended energy should you have to slow down quickly!
>
>
>
>
> ABS - forget that pulsating foot!
>
> Because the wheels are high performance motors, ABS comes as a standard
> function built into each wheel's software. Now anti-skid can also be
> applied to acceleration since the motor can smoothly control torque
> delivery to/from the road in both cases. Slamming your foot to the floor
> results in controlled maximum torque, giving the shortest possible
> stopping or acceleration time.
>
>
>
> Clever wheels!
>
> No need for crude differential gears to share power between left and
> right sides. The wheels are in constant communication with each other
> deciding 1000 times each second how much torque share is optimum for the
> current driving conditions. Should one wheel detect a slippery surface
> and take appropriate anti-skid actions, the other wheels are aware of
> this instantly and adopt an appropriate compensating strategy to keep
> the vehicle as stable as possible.
>
>
>
> Brake horsepower?
>
> Each wheel develops 160bhp!! Yes that is correct, 640bhp in total! The
> original Mini One develops less than 100bhp with an engine that weighs
> nearly double the weight of the four electric wheels! Apart from wheel
> bearings there are no wearing parts in the electric wheels; this means
> the horsepower stays for the life of the vehicle - and beyond!
>
>
>
> Charging?
>
> As the battery level reduces, the rear mounted engine/generator starts
> to automatically top up the battery. So when you arrive at your
> destination you can simply park the vehicle knowing that when you return
> the battery will be replenished! Alternatively you can take advantage of
> lower cost mains electricity and plug in to recharge. Driving along the
> motorway to visit friends in Manchester - no need to worry about battery
> capacity or how to recharge. As the level falls the generator is started
> to sustain an average speed of 60 - 70mph with no further battery
> depletion.
>
>
>
> Super capacitor - super acceleration!
>
> Capacitors are used to store electrical energy. The difference between
> batteries and capacitors is that capacitors can release/absorb their
> energy 10 times faster than a battery. For acceleration or power boost
> at higher speeds the capacitor enables nitro-like performance, more than
> doubling the power from the battery during these events. Very efficient
> energy recovery means next to nothing is wasted during stop start city
> travel. The capacitors also allow the battery to have an extended life
> by smoothing out any peak loads.
>
>
>
> Energy flow management
>
> A significant key to super performance is optimum energy management.
> Continuously deciding where energy flows should be - battery, super
> capacitor, generator, wheels. By clever optimisation of the flows, best
> use can be made of available reserves, allowing a fun driving experience
> whilst protecting the planet.
>
>
>
> Small engine and generator
>
> The IC engine weighs a mere 15kg (less than 1/10th of the original Mini
> One engine) and delivers 15kw. A high efficiency electrical generator
> is fitted to the engine to provide power when the battery depletion
> level demands. The key point is the engine is run at a continuous speed
> and load - which results in optimum efficiency fuel conversion. After
> delivering the energy to the battery system the mile equivalent
> translates to around 80mpg!
>
>
>
> In-car display
>
> With all this advanced technology the driver needs to have clear and
> complete information presented to him. The in-car display module
> provides the latest touch screen technology with intuitive display and
> scroll options. Showing available mileage subdivided by battery and fuel
> along with boost status, the display gives comprehensive information. Of
> course the display shows speed and warning functions, but further it is
> GPRS enabled allowing:
>
>
>
>
>
> Remote diagnosis of any fault to allow the "AA" man to come prepared
>
> Auto tracking of speed limits (optional!)
>
> Auto management of generator to prevent inner city operation
>
> History storage and system configuration interface.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my Soleq EVCort there is a sticker that says I should go 45 mph MAX in 2nd
gear. That is around 4500 RPM. When I shift into 3rd at that point the RPM
drops to about 3200 RPM.
If I am cruising at exactly 45mph (a good part of my commute), would it be
better to run the motor at 4500RPM in 2nd or 3200 in 3rd? How low in RPM could
I cruise in 3rd? Could I even cruise at 40Mph in 3rd? I am thinking electric
motors might be a little counter intuitive compared to an ICE which for long
term less RPM is better.
It may not make much difference either way but I guess I am interested in both
efficiency, cooling and long term life of the motor. A small effortless change
in habits may translate into a long term benefit.
There is already a cooling blower forcing air through the motor that is running
constantly. I don't know if the motor has other internal fins or not. It is a
40Kw GE Shunt wound motor.
Thanks,
Chet
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVRIDER wrote:
On final thought after reading the many great responses to the post....
If ANY of us uses or has R-12 (Freon) in their EVs, PEV's or PHEV's, we may as well be driving a H1 Hummer.
Not really... the ICE emits pollution constantly, the refrigerant system
shouldn't. Remember R-12 is only harmful to the environment when it
ends up _in_ the environment. Inside of a working AC system it is
really a non-issue. Keep your AC system maintained and have it checked
for leaks often. While R-134a does not cause ozone layer damage like
R-12 does it is still a pollutant and neither should be allowed into the
environment.
Where we made real progress was by identifying that CFCs were a problem
and making it no longer legal to just dump refrigerants into the
atmosphere. CFC's have to be recovered in appliances and cars before
salvage or repair and leaks must be fixed promptly. Additionally CFC
phaseout hit a lot of areas like foam and electronics manufacturering
that their processes basically involved dumping CFCs straight into the
atmosphere. (I had a shop teacher in 1994 that still swore by virgin
Freon for cleaning everything from electronics to ink off his desk, he
dumped a 12oz can into the atmosphere every couple of weeks. He had a
huge stockpile...)
So in the end, the best advice is a functioning R-12 system should be
left alone until it needs major repairs or starts to leak more than a
few percent a year. "Drop-in" R-12 to R-134a conversions seldom work as
well as the R-12 system did.
If you're going to convert and you'll probably need to disassemble the
AC system anyway . Take the time to flush the system and replace the
condensor with a higher efficiency R-134a model and you'll be much
happier with the results.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try a die grinder.
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
Speaking of working with thick metal,
how do you cut it? I have this great
scrap that's perfect except for some
tabs that need to be cut off.
The stuff is 1/4" x 2.5"
Clearly, HF reciprocating saw and HF blades
is not the way to go. Do I need a
bigger saw or a better blade?
or BOTH?
(or a case of HF blades :-)
(I got a better blade, but it is captive
in my ICE car which needs an $800 gasket.
I told my wife, the EV won't need that :=)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> My wife has asked me if I can turn our 1986 300ZX (5-speed manual)
> into a hybrid after I finish converting my current EV.
A hybrid is an even bigger job than a pure ICE engine swap or pure EV
conversion. Not a project for the faint of heart!
But it can be done. Someone on the EV list (I can't recall the name)
converted a Saab Sonnet into a hybrid, and drove it successfully for
years. Leon Levasseur converted a Toyota into a hybrid with a Honda Gold
Wing engine, Kostov motor, and Zapi controller, which I've even driven.
I'm sure there are others.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Already worked out the numbers engineering-wise. The output of any
Peltier device currently in existance would require many times more
electricity than a HCFC compressor system. The size required to get a
few thousand BTUs would be completely impractical. The heatsinking
requirements would be phenomental because Peltiers need to keep the hot
side as close to ambient temp as possible or the efficiency goes way,
way down.
The BTU figures you will sometimes see for Peltier modules are
misleading in that this is how much they pump as zero temp differential
between hot and cold sinks. You will need 15F-40F temp drops to be a
useful A/C and the BTUs it can move are only a fraction of its zero temp
differential capacity.
Not that there's anything wrong with Peltiers. It's a very convenient
way to cool an area that doesn't make much heat, when you have a lot of
power available. But their capabilities with current technology has
substantial fundamental limits that no clever engineering will get around.
Danny
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
This seems too good to be true. The info in the link did not say
anything about reversing the polarity. Can anyone confirm that this
actually work that way?
Now I need a larger DC-DC
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PJT-4/775/THERMOELECTRIC_COOL
ER__HEATER,_PELTIER_EFFECT_.html
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
Were can I find out more about the TEC concept?
My car did not have a working AC when I got it so I am starting from
ground zero.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am having a tough time keeping the connections to my
batteries tight. It appears that over time the
nut/bolt loosen up.
I understand that lock washers are not a good
solution. So, what do people use to keep their
connections tight? Loctite? A special washer?
Thanks
Joel
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
