EV Digest 6579
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ev photo archive
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Big Honking Motor...... again
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Datsun motor adapter?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: charging while driving question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Big Honkin' Nicads
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Would any EV groups like a "motor info" FAQ's page? - post it
yourself on the Wiki
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: NiMH Battery Packs in Parallel
by "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Big Honking Motor...... again, fun with Trolleys
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: E meter source? - Inexpensive e-meters by Microlog
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: FAST(er) NEV's - Update HB 1820 Washington State
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Live from PIR, Fireball Incident
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Brune)
14) RE: wall to road efficiency
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Sequential battery charging
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A few newbie questions.
by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NiMH Battery Packs in Parallel
by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Weatherization and Cooling of Motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Big Honking Motor...... again
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) PIR Photos up
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Weatherization and Cooling of Motors
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The easiest URL to remember is http://evalbum.com though it's also at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum
--chris
On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 19:07 -0400, Patrick Andrews wrote:
> I just deleted my favorites and i can't rember what the website is for the
> ev photo archive. I know im dumb.
>
> thanks,
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
> Presents today.
> http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:48 PM 3/21/2007, Bob Rice wrote:
Almost a short circuit, of Wayland-esque proportions, until it got
going. But as an' AC it wouldn't have much starting torque? IF it couldn't
start something it would just hum like hell til it burned up, probably the
power supply, first?
I did say that this motor was DC. 500 VDC.
I don't think I Zilla can handle that much. Wonder what a Z2KHV
could do with this? Would it even turn?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
On Mar 20, 2007, at 10:19 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
An MG 1600 head is interchangable with the 1300 motor. Many a MG 1600
twoseater had Nissan heads. Maybe the trannys are copied too. The
Japanese
of that time sometimes copied exactly.
You are not far off. Datsun made Austin engines by license up to 1960.
The pushrod 4 cylinder engines after that where similar, with a number
of parts interchangeable. The J13 engine in my 411 was also used in
Datsun Pickups of the era. The 1200 engine (A12 and A12A) still shared
similarities but where further improved. I will try to look at that
information more, but what I have seen indicates some type of adapter
is used when the Sprite owners swap in Datsun 5-speeds.
I keep pouring over Datsun sites, like the Datsun 1200 tech pages,
looking for more information about what fits (also some Pickup pages.)
I have found a reference to some "magic number" issues (different
flywheel thickness, different throw out bearing required) but nothing
addressing the basic bolt up issue. I suspect that means that a whole
bunch of the RWD stuff up to the early '80's bolts together. I'm trying
to get a handle on that because I suspect the required adapter has
already been designed. I just have to ask for something else:-)
Electro-Auto's policy of making adapters if you send them the
transmission was brought to my attention off list. I'd like to avoid
the hassle of mailing my old 4-speed around the country. I'd be tempted
to tear the engine down to just a block and crank and generate the
pattern from that. I'd prefer to pay one of the EV vendors for an
adapter and support their efforts.
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
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--- Begin Message ---
> Good. That helps. Now I can figure out if the clean genset is cheap and
> light compared to batteries. And I have a rule
> of thumb to guesstimate the capacities. What a great list!
>
Well a lawnmower produces something like 100 times as much pollution per
hour as an SUV. So fixing a small ICE motor is not an easy thing.
Cars (including SUVs) currently have VERY advanced pollution control
systems and actually produce fairly low emissions, incredibly low compared
to cars from 30 years ago.
By the time you add enough stuff to reduce the emissions and improve the
efficiency, your little motor will be as big as a motor from a small
economy car.
So save yourself the time and money and just start with an economy car
motor, say one of the three cylinder motors from a high efficiency Geo
Metro or something similar.
Of course, if you are going to do that, then just buy the Geo Metro and
drive it, you'll get even lower emissions and better efficiency because
you won't be wasting energy converting the power from mechanical to
electrical and then back to mechanical.
If you really want a hybrid, buy a Prius or a Honda Civic hybrid.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Took out my '95 S10 today. Installed another 12 cells to bring the
pack up to 120+VDC. These are Saft SPH100 cells that are used for UPS
systems on boats.
They are big honkin' cells that are individual cells. So I now have
about 100 of them onboard.
Anyway, they were flat out (the whole 12 cells read 3.6V when
installed). I charged them with my no so bad boy charger (it has an
iso transformer). They read 16 V after four hours. The rest of the
pack was already charged, so I had to take it out.
It was peppy as hell. Ran it in third and fourth at about 200A and
easily ran 65mph up hill. Until I came to town and had to slow down.
Turned around to run back and the new cells started to fall flat. I
poked back in the breakdown lane at 40mph. Will now be a good boy and
properly charge them all up through a couple cycles.
Will post some photos on EVDL photo list soon. I do have a question:
I have copper buss bars connecting these cells together. I checked
with my local friendly (and expensive) sheet metal place to have some
1/8" thick bars made and punched that I would tin with solder. They
are $8.65 each!! without the solder!!
SO, I am wondering about keeping my old bars, that do not seem to get
warm(EVen at 3-400A), and just grease them with NoNox or some similar
stuff. I have some copper colored conductive grease that came with a
bunch of surplus cables I got last year. Looks nice. Wonder how well
any grease will block the electrolyte corrosion that might occur.
God, I love Spring in Maine.
Now to avoid a speeding ticket!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Glenn Meader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone can post info on EV components on the Seattle
> EVA wiki.
>
> http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Electric_motor
Hey Glenn, David, all
Even before I put this thread up I'd had a number of
could you do a motor FAQ page requests so this is long
overdue from my side anyway. As to what to do with
it, it would be so much nicer for people (if they want
to) to post it to thier local club site or whatever
than for me to run around trying to distribute it.
Hopefully this works for EVeryone 8^) and it proves to
be a useful tool. My reason for posting was to see
what questions are of most need or intrest so that I
can best address those questions.
I'll have some time into this but I'll try to not back
burner it and will send a rough draft (maybe in
pieces) here for a group go-over 8^)
Ya I'm a gluton for punishment.
Keep you posted.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mick says: I had described how the voltage drops in a fully charged string
of NiMH cells and how that can cause problems when attempting to charge
paralleled strings of NiMH.
Aaron Richardson said:
"Do you not have the same overcharge problem with nimh batteries in
series? Couldnt the cells reach a different charge state over time?"
Mick says: Good point, Aaron. Imbalance of the cells within a series string
is a problem with all chemistries, in my view.
Unbalanced series strings are a problem. Parallel charging of two unbalanced
series strings of NiMH is a bigger problem, however. It would be nice to
handle one problem without compounding that with additional issues, wouldn't
it?
With a single series string of NiMH under charge and a moderate imbalance
problem, the first cells to heat up will cause a drop in the end to end
voltage of the string sufficient to trigger the charger to stop (assuming a
charger that looks for the telltale voltage drop to signal end of charge).
The stronger cells in the string did have to heat up and the weaker cells
probably never reached full charge but at least the charge did stop sooner
rather than later.
Bad as the above scenario may seem, it could get worse. Charging a second
string in parallel means that the voltage drop in the overachieving string
gets masked by the higher voltage of the underachieving string, so the
charger keeps going until some of the underachievers heat up, but by that
time the overachievers have overheated.
(Side note: Steve Powers recently posted his rather elaborate plans to avoid
problems with parallel charging by including diodes and other means. I sort
of got bogged down in the details but could see how similar methods could
work. I look forward to Steve's progress reports on the EVDL. Some of the
NiMH chargers use an external temp sensor to tell the charger that some of
the cells are heating up. That's faster than waiting for the string voltage
to drop and might be better for preventing overcharge. If a temp sensor
could be connected to each parallel string under charge and if any one of
those could stop the charger, that would solve the thermal runaway problem,
but would still not fully charge the underachieving string in the pack. That
is a couple of big ifs.)
More about intra-string balance on NiMH: Some of the BattEQ(TM) units which
I distribute are set up for 6 volt channels--I refer to these as 6 volt
"corrals" within which the cell voltages roam uncontrollably. The balancer
will see to it that the incremental voltage of the first 5 cells does not
vary from the incremental voltage of the next 5 cells, etc. That's better
than nothing, but a fancier balancer would be needed in order to keep each
1.2 volt cell equal with all the others, and there's a diminishing return
lurking here somewhere. I think the low cell voltage of NiMH translates into
the need for a premium battery management solution at a premium price,
unless one can be content with 5 cells within each 6 volt corral.
With lead acid batteries, a "6 volt corral" contains 3 cells. That leaves
less room for chaos due to the higher per cell voltage of lead acid versus
Ni-MH. Of course, lead acid has several other big disadvantages relative to
NiMH but nominal voltage per cell is one area where lead acid has the edge.
This type discussion keeps bringing me back to lithium ion. With a nominal
voltage around 3.6 volts per cell, it's possible & practical to balance at
the individual cell level. (Balancing is also apparently more important with
lithium than it is with some other chemistries). I'm in talks now with the
BattEQ manufacturer about a special tweak on their existing products that
would allow for lithium balance at the single cell level. That gets us a bit
closer to battery nirvana.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm only in favor of this if the NEVs can go the posted speed limit. Can
they?
> Bringing the speed of a NEV up to 35 will allow operation on roads up
> to 45, which will make it so much more useful for around town driving,
> where today you can't get anywhere with a NEV.
This reads as if it is reasonable to drive 35 on a road with posted
45mph limits. Is it?!?!
I'm all for these maximizing the utility of NEVs. If this is a silly law
that artificially limits NEVs speeds beyond one which they can easily
attain, then I support changing the law. If NEVs can't operate at the
posted speed limits, IMHO, the right action is to fix the EV, not the
law, not the speed limit... and DEFINITELY not the reality of the
majority of drivers.
EV's best future lies with exceeding the expectation of the masses, not
compromising the requirements of the majority to fit the needs of the EV
minority.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph> A vehicle with a 35mph limit is no more useful to me than a
Ralph> vehicle with a 25mph limit...
Directly, perhaps not. But doesn't any positive legislation serve to raise
the awareness of EVs as a whole?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, seriously, I would donate some of my trolley motors to a worthy cause.
I gave one to Yakima, WA for a generator for their antique trolley line, but
I think that system is inactive now. I want to keep my motor generator set
for testing the 600amp 900vdc IGBT controllers I play with in my spare time.
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:39:47 -0500, Bob Rice wrote
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Big Honking Motor...... again
>
> > Bob, I have 5 GE 140hp to 165hp, both series and separately excited
> trolley
> > motors at 600 to 750vdc. They weigh about 1500 lb each. You could use
> four
> > of them on an all wheel drive.
> > Hi Geo, an' EVerybody;
>
> Christ! ONE would be plenty! 100 T 145's aboard it would be a fun
> rig!I got to drive a souped up Trolley bus in Dayton OH years ago
> when Bob Aronson was gunna do a job for Dayton Transit. D.T. is one
> of the last, well 35 years ago, small trolley bus systems left in
> the USA. As Bob knew I was a trolley freak, he sent ME down to check
> it out and advise.
>
> Got a royal wrelcome a D.T. a walk through the car barn, where
> they had an eclecltic collection of Brill and Marmon Harrington
> buses.With a 150 HP DC series motor driving through a regular truk
> diff. Contactor controller, the starting grids INSIDE the bus for
> heat. Not sure what the do in the summer?One of their prides and
> joys was a new, light, Western Flyer bus body fitted with the Old
> drive train, we went out back to the bus yard,. "Ever Drive a
> trolley Bus?" I was asked, I said, "Nothing on Rubber tires, just
> trolley cars" "Hop in" he sez. I climb in sit down behind the Ship's
> wheel, directed to "Drive" release the parking brake, touch the "go"
> pedal, and we roll out behind the shop. " Floor it! " he says. Gees!
> Like a Blue Meany ride. We all but left rubber, 4 trak stereo!Talk
> about an EV grin! NOBODY would take this one at a light. " I guess
> this helps to get the passengers to step to the back of the bus" I
> sez.We flew along but I didn't swing out FAR enough to stay under
> the wire, the trolley catchers did their thing, snapping the poles
> down, safely to the roof. Same devices found on EVery trolley car,
> as you don't want the off- wired poles thrashing around loose at
> speed. A quick 'Reset" I think they were surprised to see that I
> knew how to "reset" a trolley catcher<g>! See the cool things you
> can learn as a member of your local trolley museum? As well as alota
> cool 19th century electrical stuff, EVen being used today on the
> fastest racers!
>
> Back to biz; They were looking to extend a few Trolley bus lines,
> like into a shopping center, WITHOUT stringing wires up, plus being
> able to take detours, without a long running start! I suggested the
> Big ASS sweeper size batteries, the famous Tri Polars, that powered
> the Mars 2 car of EFP fame. Stuffing maybe 580 volts of Lead under
> the long bench seats, that ran down each side of the bus. We call
> those " Bowling alley cars"WIDE isles to hold standees.Seats took up
> less room running along the inside walls.By running a tad less than
> the 600 volt catenery the batteries would float under the wire. Run
> the bus when not. I KNEW this would work. They, D.T. wanted, and
> were almost ready to TOW a bus up to Detoilet, for us to convert, probably
> one of their ancient Marmon Harringtons?Set the controller to amp
> limit, as no drag racing on batteries only! That woulda been fun to
> try out, just going down Woodward Ave , making all the bus stops,
> with the Detroit Street Railway buses, that WAS the name of the Bus
> Co back then! playing like the home team, see if any body would
> notice? No overhead wires in Detoilet. Do ya think ELECTRIC buses
> would be allowed to live in GM's home turf? Detroit had a wonderful
> Electric Rail system, 100 years ago, fanning out all over MI. EVen
> Pullman cars USED to be built in Detroit, and a lot of other cool
> stuff! Gees! Did ya see the article in the NY Times, I think? Of houses
> going for less than CARS??!!Detroit was dying 35 years ago.Dead now!
> Standard punch line was" Will the last person to leave Detroit,
> Please turn out the Lights?" Now IF ya had Micro-Sloth's millions,
> you could BUILD EV's in Detroit? Again. Bring it back to life?
> Sigh! Build a Tesla -like sports car" the "Detroiter" The New Yuk
> Central RR isn't using the name anymore!
>
> OK Out of Fantesy- Land for now. just talking about the big ass motors
> brought back memories.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want a really good expensive meter at a low cost, I have seen several
new Red Lion meters come through eBay lately at less than $10 each.
Dan
From: Glenn Meader
>Check out these new inexpensive battery monitor e-meters
>$94 for 2 batteries
>$99 for 3 batteries
>http://www.micromediaplus.com/microlog_dmm-3_dmm-4.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This reads as if it is reasonable to drive 35 on a road with posted
> 45mph limits. Is it?!?!
Reasonable? That depends on what /you/ consider reasonable I guess.
Legal? Sure in most states it's legal to drive 10 mph /under/ the speed
limit.
FWIW it IS a silly little law that currently limits NEVs. By federal law
they are NOT allowed to be capable of going faster than 25mph and because
of that are limited (again by federal law) to streets with a posted speed
limit of 35 mph or lower.
Note: federal law also requires that they be capable of doing MORE than 20
mph. So legally a NEV could have a top speed of 20.5 mph and still
legally drive on roads with posted spe4ed limits of 35 mph.
Note 2: Vehicles with a top speed below 20 mph are not considered "motor
vehicles" by federal law. Whether or not they can drive on the road is up
to state/local regulations.
One exception (sort of) is electric bicycles which can go "up to" 20 mph
and fall under federal laws that preempt state/local laws. Under federal
law they are considered bicycles and /not/ motorcycles or mopeds or
whatever, so they basically fall under the same laws/regulations as
ordinary bicycles (except for the federal limitations on speed, and size
of motor, etc.)
>
> I'm all for these maximizing the utility of NEVs. If this is a silly law
> that artificially limits NEVs speeds beyond one which they can easily
> attain, then I support changing the law. If NEVs can't operate at the
> posted speed limits, IMHO, the right action is to fix the EV, not the
> law, not the speed limit... and DEFINITELY not the reality of the
> majority of drivers.
>
> EV's best future lies with exceeding the expectation of the masses, not
> compromising the requirements of the majority to fit the needs of the EV
> minority.
>
> Randii
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
Sounds like a pretty good day at the track. I wish I could have been there.
Did you get a chance to take any data on the runs?
>From Tim's description it sounds to me like the Zilla shouldn't have been in
>battery voltage limit or battery current limit. Thus if we assume that Tim
>still had is foot into it we must have been tapping on the motor voltage limit.
I know you were close to motor voltage limit last year. Sounds like the extra
battery power (Yes!) has pushed it over the limit, and perhaps a bit further.
I know we talked a bit on the phone about this, but I wonder if you changed the
rear end gear ratio to reduce motor RPM a bit if you wouldn't be better off.
Perhaps sacrifice the 1/8th mile acceleration for an increase in top end speed.
What do you think?
Regards,
Chris Brune
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hello to Tim and All,
>
> Tim Brehm wrote:
>
> >the lowest pack voltage I saw was 225 volts at the end of the run while the
> motors were still pulling 800 amps when I crossed the finish line.
> >
> >
> Correction...that would be 225 volts and 800 'battery amps', not motor
> amps. That BIG gauge on the left Tim, is battery amps, not motor amps.
> The motor amps were closer to 1100 amps. That's actually very
> encouraging to hear, that is, that the battery amps programmed to hold
> at 1000 amps, were just ramping down slightly at the end of the run.
> That means that the new stout pack probably delivers 1000 amps for most
> of the 1/4 mile run, and it means that the motors are still getting some
> serious amps at the far end of the track!
>
> Of note everyone, the previous two packs from '05 and '06 would sag to
> 180 volts at about the 2/3 point of the run down the track. This is a 45
> volt rise under load, with the batteries still not yet fully broken in.
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would have thought EV's have significant maintenance. It seems like
batteries are changed between 20,000 to 50,000 miles and that is not
cheap or easy, a lot more work than changing oil, and radiator fluid.
Then if you have the common wet batteries you need to check the water
levels every month or so from what I read.
So while the controller and motor may be maintenance free I think most
EV have a way to go to be less hassle than a typical ICE engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Farver
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:19 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: wall to road efficiency
Electro Automotive wrote:
> Having spent a lot of years in a gas car repair shop, I have a pretty
> good idea what annual maintenance costs are (or were ten years ago
> when we quit) for a typical gas car. A 6,000 mile major service and
> tune USED to be $150.
The maintenance advantages are becoming less and less. Most people able
to afford an EV conversion are buying fairly new cars that are covered
by warranties. A lot of cars today can go 100,000 miles with nothing
but oil and air filters. Manufacturers recommend oil changes at 7500
mile intervals, and most other maintenance at 30k to 50k mile intervals.
OTOH, if you are someone who tends to own cars past their warranty the
difference can be significant on non-routine care. 10 year old cars
don't generally need $160 tune ups, but even minor engine issue requires
extensive troubleshooting by a mechanic skilled on computerized
diagnostics. (At average costs of $75/hr, minimum)
The Dodge dealership recommended junking my 1997 Neon because the ECU
fuse would blow whenever the engine got hot. They diagnosed the problem
as a short in the engine harness. A replacement harness was $1000, and
they wouldn't waste technician hours diagnosing and repairing the
harness. (I eventually tracked the problem to a bad heater element in
a $30 oxygen sensor)
I've heard GM uses a standard fuel sender part on many vehicles now, but
the sender must have vehicle specific firmware written to it to
calibrate it to the tank size. The sender costs about $17 to the
dealer, who then charges $200 to download the firmware to it. Senders
wear out, a lot.
How many people here have had a technician "solve" a Check Engine light
problem by replacing a $400 computer?
Most of the people I talk to do not worry about the cost of auto
maintenance, they just hate the hassle. The EV, I tell them, requires
almost no routine maintenance, and almost all of it can be done in a few
minutes by the owner in their own garage, and without getting their
hands dirty.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, have there been any issues with having all batteries
interconnected to supply high voltage and then having 12V delivered to
each battery. I am planning to try this with a 12V Soneil charger on
each battery rather than a larger 72V charger to charge all 6 at the
same time. My battery man says it will not work but I think it will and
hope to test in a week or so. Thank you
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 7:50 PM
To: ev
Subject: RE: Sequential battery charging
You are right, imbalance in an EV's battery pack is bad news. Something
we all struggle with. So, what I did is bought isolation transformers
and put a charger on each and every 12 V module (12 V battery or pair of
6 V batteries). That means I have a total of 8 chargers on my main
battery pack, and one smaller one on the Aux battery. If I keep
expanding the NiMH pack, I'll end up with yet another charger for all
those modules sequentially charging them as necessary. I can also
charge off my reserve fuel tank spare 120 AH battery (good for an extra
2 miles) through the built in inverter and all these chargers. If I
wanted, I could monitor the voltages and selectively charge only the
weak ones, but why not just charge them all while I am at it.
I also load tested each battery - 40, 60, or 100 Watt light bulb
running off an inverter test. And, I am adding small strings of 13 AH
NIMH (21 cells per pair of 12 V batteries) to help balance them out.
If I have two batteries that have only 70 AH capacity, and the rest have
80 AH, just add on my NIMH battery extender and they now all have 80 AH.
In my case, I am shooting for 60 AH minumum across the board.
Just keep in mind, you can't get any more out of your pack than the
weakest battery, so why not add some strength to those weak ones. Or,
just occasionally individually charge all the batteries in the pack, a
good 6 AH 6/12 V Walmart charger workes well for this. It's what I use.
And, I rebalance my pack all the time. Now, with every charge.
It cost me $160 for the group of isolation transformers and $17/ea for
the 6 A smart chargers. Not bad for a very nice battery charging
system. It may keep my old pack running another 6 months or so.
Hope that helps some,
Steve
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
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--- Begin Message ---
--- "Barry C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1. Is this the right place to ask basic newbie questions?
If you can tough out the critical opinions and evangelism,
there is no better technical EV resource than here.
> 2. Does anyone use battery equalizers like Powercheq?
I've seen a few conversions that do, and these and other
equalizing systems are a topic of discussion here.
> 3. I also have been reading about the single point
> watering system, Aquapro. Do people use this type of system.
I think they are very overpriced and of limited use in a
road EV. Watering your batteries with such a system won't
save you much time, because you need to inspect and service
the terminals anyway. I can water 24 floodeds in my S-10 in
about 15 minutes, and that's only a few times a year. Not
worth the expense of an automatic system, in my opinion.
> I am wanting to build a EV ... Able to run 65-70mph. 35-50mi.
> carry 2 adults, 2 children for around the town errands on occasion.
> This is doable?
No, not practically. If you can cut either the speed or the
range in half, it could be. If you can recharge at the halfway
point of the 35-50 miles, it counts as cutting the range in
half. But if you're really putting on that many miles in a
day, expect to replace your pack frequently.
> Right now I was looking at a Ford escort wagon
...
> Trojan T145 6V batteries. (144V 24 batteries)
Not in an Escort. It could never hold that much weight, at
least not safely.
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Bruce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> there exist a sensor that you can put into a
> flooded cell that continuously measures the specific gravity of the
> electrolyte?
I don't know of one specifically, but it wouldn't work for what
you have in mind anyway. The SG lags behind actual SOC because
the electrolyte has to diffuse through the separators. Technically
you should let it sit for 24 hours before an accurate SOC value
can be made based on SG reading, though I've found a 3 hour wait
gets you close enough. Certainly not valid for real time SOC.
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeff
I saw you'd responded to this and I was thinking thank
God, Jeff's gonna field this one for me and I see you
tossed it to me, LMAO. First let me deal with Mentos
Mike and I'll get to this thread 8^)
--- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Jeff, are you TRYING to get me in trouble with
> Jim ? ;-P
> I don't need any help on that front. (I just use
> red yarn)
No, no you don't, but then I suspect I'm not the only
one, on that regard 8^o
> IIRC
What does this mean, seen it used, can't figuer it
out.
> it was Jim who approved me to use the baking
> soda as a light abraisive to clean up a commutator.
> I can't prove that unless I can find the e-mail.
That's right buddy cause I have no recall of any such
thing. I know I'm getting old but I ain't that old.
I want to see this email! Sounds to me like you were
talking to Jim the battery man, LMAO! Battery posts
Mike not terminal posts 8^P
> He's never called me, even when he was in Anchorage
> visiting his siter :-( so it must be in an e-mail.
Again another tortured, mutilated and twisted wad of
information. How was I supposed to know you went to
bed at 7PM when the sun said noon?? I emailed you but
I didn't return to my sisters (see you add an s in
there) until 9PM. Your lucky actually being what I
know now, I'd just drive on over and invite my self on
in drink all your coffee, and you know what I bet I do
have that email. Sorry I'm a wiennie boy no exeptions
in bed by 7, LMAO!
> So I should be able to prove it. I don't suspect
> that it looks too bad inside my motor after almost a
> year of driving. The dust accumulation on the
> outside is limited to bottom rear side of the
> housing near the Transmission.
>
> And too, if he lets Plasmaboy run the Siamese 8's
> without cooling, I don't think I'd get cross with
> him for not cooling my single 9".
See you guys think I have any say. At the Wayland
juice bar it's Plasma Boys way or the highway.
Sometimes it's both though and it makes for a
screaming ride 8^D I've had a few, but I can't talk
about them Cheryl might be reading 8^o
> Careful though, you might talk like you're on his
> side, but he's suspicious of EVeryone :-) The trick
> with the yarn is wait till he takes it under, wait
> for 1 post and then hold on for dear life :-)
First off Jeff and I talk all the time so I don't know
where your going there, LMAO! Hey Jeff 8^)
When I used to run Beech Electric I'd tell my guys if
you screw up and I'm chewing on you don't squirm it
just makes me bite down harder 8^) BTW Mike you ever
been spooled?? LMAO!
> > Hmmm, he says "blow it out and take some baking
> soda and water to
> > the commutators to
> > clean them up." I wonder if that is an approved
> method. Jim?
Again Jeff no I didn't, but here's my take. It would
probably work but to what purpose. That dark brown to
black patina is what you want to see. Most of the
higher voltage motors have some streaking and film
burnoff most are not bad. Anyway leave that film
alone it's good for you like vegetables 8^) Being
I've never used baking soda on a comm I can only
speculate. I doubt it would even remove the film
unless you were rubbing it in with a stick like you
were trying to start a fire.
I don't really see that it would hurt it much if Mike
would like to try. Actually the film is pretty tough.
I get a fair share of fix as needed stuff. I'll run
180 grit aluminum oxide paper over the comm on the
lathe to see if there is wear and a turn is needed.
The film is left in worn areas and I can see how true
the comm is. Lets just say I think it'd take some
serious soda scubbing before you could do any damage,
IMO.
As far as cleanup goes I use a hot water and soap
parts washer. It's more like doing the dishes but I
don't have to breathe and work with solvents. I also
have to bake them out to remove the water. But hey if
the wife says go ahead use the sink and oven your set
8^) Much more enviro than a can of brake cleaner. I
use Safety Kleen for proper disposal of sludge and
water change-overs in case you all wondered.
Bottom line is if your comm is worn or pitted or
otherwise looking like it needs abrasives have it
turned and undercut. If its got crap on it (more an
old lift motor) a simple soap and water scrubdown is
all she'll need. If you go this route you will need
to dry it qickly as not to produce rust forming.
Believe it or not Both Beech CA. and Warfield CA. used
household ovens way back when. I wasn't there yet but
they told me they blew the doors off one when I guy
loaded it to full, LMAO. Ohhh the good old days.
If you decide to surprise your Mrs. with some oven
fresh 9" armature, preheat the oven to 350 degress,
shut it off and insert armature and let it heat up for
1/2 hour 8^) Hey I'm just saying it can be done.
As for weatherizing motors. This is one area that
I've seen huge differences in. John B's 11 year old
ADC looked brand new last year when we went through
Boise. I've seen others that are way rusted outside
and inside. Outside's not so bad but inside it can do
damage. The dryer you can keep the motor the better.
You don't want to enclose it though even blowered.
Now cooling is more important. A smaller motor will
work harder and need more cooling than a larger motor
pushing X load.
The cooler you keep the motor the longer it's life
will be.
Sorry I had to defend my good name before addressing
this thread 8^)
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wouldn't it work on 250 volts at 30 hp continuous? I know alot of us seem
to be over voltaging forklift and other motors but wouldn't it work going
the other way as well? Seems it comes up often that one motor has been
marked at different ratings for different customers.
Other than the weight penalty you'd play heck trying to overheat that motor
and the max torque at 0 rpm should still hold shouldn't it?
John Neiswanger
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Big Honking Motor...... again
At 04:48 PM 3/21/2007, Bob Rice wrote:
Almost a short circuit, of Wayland-esque proportions, until it got
going. But as an' AC it wouldn't have much starting torque? IF it couldn't
start something it would just hum like hell til it burned up, probably the
power supply, first?
I did say that this motor was DC. 500 VDC.
I don't think I Zilla can handle that much. Wonder what a Z2KHV could do
with this? Would it even turn?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
A quick note...I've put up photos from Sunday's EVentful drag races.
Acceleration fans will love the shot I caught of the BF Goodrich Drag
Radials distorting under electric torque! A detailed post soon to follow.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 5:49 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Weatherization and Cooling of Motors
>
>
> Hey Jeff
>
> I saw you'd responded to this and I was thinking thank
> God, Jeff's gonna field this one for me and I see you
> tossed it to me, LMAO. First let me deal with Mentos
> Mike and I'll get to this thread 8^)
>
> --- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hey Jeff, are you TRYING to get me in trouble with
> > Jim ? ;-P
> > I don't need any help on that front. (I just use
> > red yarn)
> No, no you don't, but then I suspect I'm not the only
> one, on that regard 8^o
>
> > IIRC
> What does this mean, seen it used, can't figuer it
> out.
>
> > it was Jim who approved me to use the baking
> > soda as a light abraisive to clean up a commutator.
> > I can't prove that unless I can find the e-mail.
>
> That's right buddy cause I have no recall of any such
> thing. I know I'm getting old but I ain't that old.
> I want to see this email! Sounds to me like you were
> talking to Jim the battery man, LMAO! Battery posts
> Mike not terminal posts 8^P
>
> > He's never called me, even when he was in Anchorage
> > visiting his siter :-( so it must be in an e-mail.
>
> Again another tortured, mutilated and twisted wad of
> information. How was I supposed to know you went to
> bed at 7PM when the sun said noon?? I emailed you but
> I didn't return to my sisters (see you add an s in
> there) until 9PM. Your lucky actually being what I
> know now, I'd just drive on over and invite my self on
> in drink all your coffee, and you know what I bet I do
> have that email. Sorry I'm a wiennie boy no exeptions
> in bed by 7, LMAO!
>
> > So I should be able to prove it. I don't suspect
> > that it looks too bad inside my motor after almost a
> > year of driving. The dust accumulation on the
> > outside is limited to bottom rear side of the
> > housing near the Transmission.
> >
> > And too, if he lets Plasmaboy run the Siamese 8's
> > without cooling, I don't think I'd get cross with
> > him for not cooling my single 9".
>
> See you guys think I have any say. At the Wayland
> juice bar it's Plasma Boys way or the highway.
> Sometimes it's both though and it makes for a
> screaming ride 8^D I've had a few, but I can't talk
> about them Cheryl might be reading 8^o
>
> > Careful though, you might talk like you're on his
> > side, but he's suspicious of EVeryone :-) The trick
> > with the yarn is wait till he takes it under, wait
> > for 1 post and then hold on for dear life :-)
>
> First off Jeff and I talk all the time so I don't know
> where your going there, LMAO! Hey Jeff 8^)
>
> When I used to run Beech Electric I'd tell my guys if
> you screw up and I'm chewing on you don't squirm it
> just makes me bite down harder 8^) BTW Mike you ever
> been spooled?? LMAO!
>
> > > Hmmm, he says "blow it out and take some baking
> > soda and water to
> > > the commutators to
> > > clean them up." I wonder if that is an approved
> > method. Jim?
>
>
> Again Jeff no I didn't, but here's my take. It would
> probably work but to what purpose. That dark brown to
> black patina is what you want to see. Most of the
> higher voltage motors have some streaking and film
> burnoff most are not bad. Anyway leave that film
> alone it's good for you like vegetables 8^) Being
> I've never used baking soda on a comm I can only
> speculate. I doubt it would even remove the film
> unless you were rubbing it in with a stick like you
> were trying to start a fire.
>
> I don't really see that it would hurt it much if Mike
> would like to try. Actually the film is pretty tough.
> I get a fair share of fix as needed stuff. I'll run
> 180 grit aluminum oxide paper over the comm on the
> lathe to see if there is wear and a turn is needed.
> The film is left in worn areas and I can see how true
> the comm is. Lets just say I think it'd take some
> serious soda scubbing before you could do any damage,
> IMO.
>
> As far as cleanup goes I use a hot water and soap
> parts washer. It's more like doing the dishes but I
> don't have to breathe and work with solvents. I also
> have to bake them out to remove the water. But hey if
> the wife says go ahead use the sink and oven your set
> 8^) Much more enviro than a can of brake cleaner. I
> use Safety Kleen for proper disposal of sludge and
> water change-overs in case you all wondered.
>
> Bottom line is if your comm is worn or pitted or
> otherwise looking like it needs abrasives have it
> turned and undercut. If its got crap on it (more an
> old lift motor) a simple soap and water scrubdown is
> all she'll need. If you go this route you will need
> to dry it qickly as not to produce rust forming.
> Believe it or not Both Beech CA. and Warfield CA. used
> household ovens way back when. I wasn't there yet but
> they told me they blew the doors off one when I guy
> loaded it to full, LMAO. Ohhh the good old days.
> If you decide to surprise your Mrs. with some oven
> fresh 9" armature, preheat the oven to 350 degress,
> shut it off and insert armature and let it heat up for
> 1/2 hour 8^) Hey I'm just saying it can be done.
>
> As for weatherizing motors. This is one area that
> I've seen huge differences in. John B's 11 year old
> ADC looked brand new last year when we went through
> Boise. I've seen others that are way rusted outside
> and inside. Outside's not so bad but inside it can do
> damage. The dryer you can keep the motor the better.
> You don't want to enclose it though even blowered.
>
> Now cooling is more important. A smaller motor will
> work harder and need more cooling than a larger motor
> pushing X load.
> The cooler you keep the motor the longer it's life
> will be.
>
> Sorry I had to defend my good name before addressing
> this thread 8^)
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> TV dinner still cooling?
> Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/
>
>
--- End Message ---
