Getting horsepower is not the same as long cycle life. You know, I am not making this stuff up. Ignore at your own risk.
On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 2:42 PM, jerry freedomev via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Hi Paul and All, Since Bill has more > experience successfully getting the most power with lithium batteries of > more types than most anyone else in the world for decades now, he is the > source from his experience. And thanks Bill, I hadn't > known it was that low. I'd thought it was more like 110F at least. Many > parking lots here in Fla are 50F+ above that. > > Jerry Dycus > From: paul dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: Bill Dube <billd...@killacycle.com>; Electric Vehicle Discussion > List <ev@lists.evdl.org>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List < > ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Temperature rating (Was: ENERDEL Battery Experiences) > > You gave no source. > > So one is better than none. > > I've never heard or seen any paper that claims 104F will affect > performance. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 1:13 PM > Subject: [EVDL] Temperature rating (Was: ENERDEL Battery Experiences) > > > The 104 F (40 C) limit applies somewhat equally > to all Li-ion chemistries. The temperature is > limited because the electrolyte boils just > slightly above that temperature. Same type of > electrolyte in all Li-ion chemistries thus the same limit. > > The cell containment vessel can make a > big difference in this temperature limit, > however. Cylindrical cells can often hold > significant pressure while prismatic and pouch > cells can withstand less or perhaps no pressure. > Life a pressure cooker, the higher the pressure > of the electrolyte, the higher temperature you > can withstand. The A123 26650M1 cells (LiFePO4) > would withstand up to 100 Celsius (yes that is > correct) without damage. They weren't "rated" > that high, but they could withstand that > temperature. They were rated for 60 Celsius (140 F). > > Keep in mind that the cells will age > much more rapidly at that elevated temperature. > They perform better, however, and you don't hold > them that hot for very long. You must choose the > compromise between total life-span and > performance for the specific application, which > is typical for most things in life. > > I'm not sure where you are getting your > information. Better check more than one source. > > Bill D. > > At 10:42 AM 4/1/2015, you wrote: > >Jeff, I am not sure why performance at ambient > >temperatures should make anyone feel confident > >about a cell. LFP for instance, starts to have > >serious difficulties at 104°F if it is fully > >charged. That is certainly ambient here in > >North Carolina; and that is free air, not boxed > >up with significant amperage scooting about. I > >must tell you, I don't have an axe to grind > >here. I simply want to point out a better way > >to go. That is to get better information for > >all. And better testing with in the > >industry. ENERDEL just popped up on my radar > >is all. They have an website that is light on > >good information and I waded in. I am happy to > >see that behind the curtain they may have more > >on the ball. I have been scanning the course > >work you provided to me, and it is very > >nice. When ENERDEL discusses cycle life (around > >page 279) I can see they clearly understand the > >reactivity of the positive electrode at very > >high SOC and how temperature makes that much > >worse for the electrolyte. They clearly have > >good information to work with and probably are > >engaged with Dalhousie University or the spin > >off Novonix to get good testing done. I am duly > >impressed. I still have not figured out what > >chemistry they have chosen. From what I have > >seen so far, they speak assiduously, only in > >general terms regarding their own cells. If > >they are using some inferior chemistry and > >electrolyte package it is clearly not because > >they don't know better, so I bet they are > >OK. Provisional blessing on them until I am > >better educated. Thanks for taking the time to > >address this with me. Mike On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 > >at 10:19 AM, Jeff Major via EV > ><ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > I doubt that > >EnerDel and its customers have overlooked > >anything as basic > as performance and life at > >ambient temperatures. It appears to me that > > >Hoegberg is comparing to some float stand-by > >application and then > misinterpreting the > >presented data. But whatever. They have > >millions of > cells in the field and no > >complaints of which I am aware. > > > >-------------- next part -------------- > An > >HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > > > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/e6911ad9/attachment.htm > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: > >http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > >( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- > >To invent, you need a good imagination and a > >pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison > ><http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> > >A public-opinion poll is no substitute for > >thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) > >585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 > ><https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> > >Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell > >michael.e.r...@gmail.com > ><michael.e.r...@gmail.com> -------------- next > >part -------------- An HTML attachment was > >scrubbed... 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Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/8ec3335a/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
