Because I said so is not proof Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 1, 2015, at 1:42 PM, jerry freedomev via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > Hi Paul and All, Since Bill has more > experience successfully getting the most power with lithium batteries of more > types than most anyone else in the world for decades now, he is the source > from his experience. And thanks Bill, I hadn't known it was > that low. I'd thought it was more like 110F at least. Many parking lots > here in Fla are 50F+ above that. > > Jerry Dycus > From: paul dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: Bill Dube <billd...@killacycle.com>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > <ev@lists.evdl.org>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Temperature rating (Was: ENERDEL Battery Experiences) > > You gave no source. > > So one is better than none. > > I've never heard or seen any paper that claims 104F will affect performance. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 1:13 PM > Subject: [EVDL] Temperature rating (Was: ENERDEL Battery Experiences) > > > The 104 F (40 C) limit applies somewhat equally > to all Li-ion chemistries. The temperature is > limited because the electrolyte boils just > slightly above that temperature. Same type of > electrolyte in all Li-ion chemistries thus the same limit. > > The cell containment vessel can make a > big difference in this temperature limit, > however. Cylindrical cells can often hold > significant pressure while prismatic and pouch > cells can withstand less or perhaps no pressure. > Life a pressure cooker, the higher the pressure > of the electrolyte, the higher temperature you > can withstand. The A123 26650M1 cells (LiFePO4) > would withstand up to 100 Celsius (yes that is > correct) without damage. They weren't "rated" > that high, but they could withstand that > temperature. They were rated for 60 Celsius (140 F). > > Keep in mind that the cells will age > much more rapidly at that elevated temperature. > They perform better, however, and you don't hold > them that hot for very long. You must choose the > compromise between total life-span and > performance for the specific application, which > is typical for most things in life. > > I'm not sure where you are getting your > information. Better check more than one source. > > Bill D. > > At 10:42 AM 4/1/2015, you wrote: >> Jeff, I am not sure why performance at ambient >> temperatures should make anyone feel confident >> about a cell. LFP for instance, starts to have >> serious difficulties at 104°F if it is fully >> charged. That is certainly ambient here in >> North Carolina; and that is free air, not boxed >> up with significant amperage scooting about. I >> must tell you, I don't have an axe to grind >> here. I simply want to point out a better way >> to go. That is to get better information for >> all. And better testing with in the >> industry. ENERDEL just popped up on my radar >> is all. They have an website that is light on >> good information and I waded in. I am happy to >> see that behind the curtain they may have more >> on the ball. I have been scanning the course >> work you provided to me, and it is very >> nice. When ENERDEL discusses cycle life (around >> page 279) I can see they clearly understand the >> reactivity of the positive electrode at very >> high SOC and how temperature makes that much >> worse for the electrolyte. They clearly have >> good information to work with and probably are >> engaged with Dalhousie University or the spin >> off Novonix to get good testing done. I am duly >> impressed. I still have not figured out what >> chemistry they have chosen. From what I have >> seen so far, they speak assiduously, only in >> general terms regarding their own cells. If >> they are using some inferior chemistry and >> electrolyte package it is clearly not because >> they don't know better, so I bet they are >> OK. Provisional blessing on them until I am >> better educated. Thanks for taking the time to >> address this with me. Mike On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 >> at 10:19 AM, Jeff Major via EV >> <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > I doubt that >> EnerDel and its customers have overlooked >> anything as basic > as performance and life at >> ambient temperatures. It appears to me that > >> Hoegberg is comparing to some float stand-by >> application and then > misinterpreting the >> presented data. But whatever. They have >> millions of > cells in the field and no >> complaints of which I am aware. > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > An >> HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > >> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/e6911ad9/attachment.htm >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- >> To invent, you need a good imagination and a >> pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison >> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> >> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for >> thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) >> 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 >> <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> >> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell >> michael.e.r...@gmail.com >> <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> -------------- next >> part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/dc67ff6e/attachment.htm> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/784dcbe5/attachment.htm> > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/df189885/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
