I'll take your word for it that 30% is the number. But my point was that even if you figure out a way to reduce CO2 to acceptable levels, there are other pollution factors that make cutting back on the use of ICEs important. I don't disagree with your point that a 200 mile car should be sufficient for most people. Whether they will buy one or not is an open question. I own two of them, but everyone is different.
- Mark Sent from AltaMail From: Larry Gales <larry.ga...@gmail.com> To: Mark Abramowitz <ma...@enviropolicy.com>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> CC: dovepa <dov...@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Prof. Clare Grey defending her LiO2 (fluffy carbon) battery paper Date: 5/16/16, 2:40 PM First, the CO2 produced by transportation is about 30%, not 14%, so it is a very significant factor. 2nd, a 200+ mile vehicle should be fully sufficient as your only car. For 98-99% of all your trips, the EV is more convenient, as you can wake up every morning with a fully charged car with virtually no effort. And for a 500 mile trip the difference is this: in a gas car, most people would normally make at least TWO 30 minute stops for food, or bathroom, or gas, or rest. For the 200+ mile EV, you would make THREE such stops, combining 30 minute charging (to 80% full) with food/bathroom/rest. So for 1-2% of your trips, the EV would be somewhat less convenient, but for 98-99% the EV would be more convenient. And 98-99% is better than 1-2%. On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: The need for zero emission vehicles has been around for significantly longer than efforts to reduce CO2 emissions. For many parts of the country (and world), local levels of air pollution have tremendous impacts on human health and the environment. If you believe that we can solve the CO2 problem by eliminating coal, and you think that it can be done in a reasonable amount of time, there still remains a urgent need for zero and near-zero emitting vehicles. - Mark Sent from AltaMail From: dovepa via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Prof. Clare Grey defending her LiO2 (fluffy carbon) battery paper Date: 5/13/16, 6:49 PM I don't see a need to eliminate the internal combustion engine. Most of the CO2 comes from burning coal. According to the EPA only 14% comes from transportation. All forms of transportation together road, rail, air and marine. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 5/13/16 4:13 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Mike Beem <beemik...@gmail.com>, EVDL Administrator <evp...@drmm.net>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Prof. Clare Grey defending her LiO2 (fluffy carbon) battery paper The range problem definitely does exist. How are you going to get rid of ICE vehicles for long range travel if you can only go 100 miles or so per charge? Even 200 miles. This has nothing to do with the vehicle you might use for everyday commuting and errands. Yes, 100 miles is almost always plenty for that. And, yes, you can rent something if you want to go long range. But we're talking about getting ICE vehicles off the road. That long range vehicle needs to go 300-400 miles on a charge to be practical. Some have to be built and there needs to be high wattage charging stations along the interstates and major highways. And, another factor, if only a small percentage are built, economy of scale won't work and they will be quite expensive. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Beem via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "EVDL Administrator" <evp...@drmm.net>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 13-May-16 2:06:31 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Prof. Clare Grey defending her LiO2 (fluffy carbon) battery paper >> They are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. > >>Most of us on the EVDL have been saying this for years -- that 100 >>miles of >range is plenty for almost anyone. > >Well stated, both of you! I definitely am ready for that 100 mile >range, >having over the years never had more than my current 40 mile range >pack. >However, it still does carry me for more than 95% of the miles I drive >most >months. I do have a 3/4 ton diesel pick up truck for pulling my dump >trailer, and hauling any any loads too heavy, large or messy for the EV >Escort, but with its roof rack I have carried ladders, lumber etc. for >much >of what I do; and the truck generally gets driven less than 500 mile >per >year, so its contribution to ICE pollution is as minimal as I can make >it. >Having now sold off or given away all of my remaining EV projects, I >know >that I am probably driving my last home made EV, but it still has 5 1/2 >years to go to finish my experiment=can I drive a conversion EV on one >lithium pack with a total investment of $10000 for 10 years? (not >including >tires or brakes). >Time will tell, but so far, I have seen no degradation in range or >power. >Michael B > >On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:45 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV < >ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > >> On 13 May 2016 at 6:31, dovepa via EV wrote: >> >> > They are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. >> >> Most of us on the EVDL have been saying this for years -- that 100 >>miles of >> range is plenty for almost anyone. >> >> It's true, but outside of EV hobbyists, hardly anyone believes it. >>The >> public perception is that they need range close to what they get on a >> tankful of gasoline now. >> >> We know that "range anxiety" is a myth. But "journalists" keep >>hammering >> at >> it, and the public buys it. So to them, it's real. >> >> We can educate these folks until we drop from exhaustion and it won't >> change >> more than a couple of their minds. We can even have them track >>their >> weekly mileage. It makes no difference. >> >> Vehicle buyers demand long range, just in case they ever need it. >>It's the >> same attitude that makes people buy huge pickup trucks and drive >>their >> clunky, awkward 18-mpg beasts year in and year out, even if they only >>haul >> something big once a year (or less). >> >> Perception is reality. It doesn't pay to fight it. What does pay is >> asking >> people who actually buy vehicles what they need, listening to them, >>and >> then >> building and offering for sale an EV that meets those perceived >> requirements >> and needs, whether they're real needs or not. >> >> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA >> EVDL Administrator >> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not >> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my >> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160513/3175229b/attachment.htm> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160513/51798bde/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160514/590645e4/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Larry Gales -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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