Absolutely hate traffic circles... They work fine if there is very low traffic, but if there is lots of traffic, they are horrible...
Jim Walls -----Original Message----- From: "Peri Hartman via EV" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 16:12 To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Cc: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops) Incidentally, in Seattle, most residential streets don't have stop signs. "Crash data show there are far more accidents at intersections in Seattle with stop signs than without. ... Which brings us to traffic circles, an approach that reduces collisions by 97 percent." from https://www.kuow.org/stories/stop-signs-arent-all-theyre-cracked-be-seattle Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> ------ Original Message ------ From: "Bill Dube via EV" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: "Bill Dube" <[email protected]> Sent: 01-Feb-22 15:48:05 Subject: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops) > Tesla should treat a stop sign according to the law. However, the > computer is acting logically according to the actual situation. I would > suspect that there logically should be a yield sign instead of the stop sign. > >In most civilized parts of the world, stop signs are _extremely_ scarce. In >the US, they are the default at most intersections. I can only recall seeing >half a dozen stop signs in all of Auckland. No doubt there are more, but they >are used sparely because they are needed extremely rarely. > >I suspect this is to generate revenue in the form of traffic tickets in the >US. Only in the US do the ticket revenues go directly to the police >departments. In most civilized countries, they go to the national coffers, >which removes (most) of the obvious conflict of interest. > >Obviously, someone has to yield the right of way to someone else at an >intersection. In sensible countries, they use "yield" signs. Only in the few >intersections that have visibility difficulties, or some unusual hazard do >they place the very rare stop sign. They often don't have any signs at all, >where you apply whoever standard yield law/procedure. It all works wonderfully >with few traffic accidents. Traffic flows much more smoothly and efficiently >with yield signs instead of stop signs. > > When folks in the US do a rolling stop (often called a Hollywood stop,) > they are doing the logical thing. They have slowed sufficiency to ensure that > they can proceed without violating the right-of-way. > ><soap box mode off> > > > >Bill D. > >On 2/2/2022 11:39 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >>Ok, my opinion. I think one should look at the intent of the law requiring a >>full stop at a stop sign. From what I learned, that is to allow getting a >>full view of the intersection before proceeding. If you don't come to a full >>stop, you might not notice a pedestrian starting to cross. Or, if the cross >>traffic doesn't stop, you might miss an oncoming vehicle. >> >>So, for human drivers, a full stop makes sense. >> >>In the future, good sensors and self-driving software should be able to >>determine if a full stop is necessary. The software can look in all >>directions at once and doesn't need nearly as much time as a human to make a >>decision. If the view of cross traffic is blocked, it will need to be ready >>to stop, but may not need to completely stop once at the intersection. I can >>imagine that full stops and, perhaps, even stop signs themselves will >>eventually become relics. >> >>In the mean time, I think Tesla's should obey the law. Once Musk can prove >>his vehicles don't have to fully stop, maybe he can lobby to get laws changed. >> >>Peri >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Address messages to [email protected] >No other addresses in TO and CC fields >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ >LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org _______________________________________________ Address messages to [email protected] No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org _______________________________________________ Address messages to [email protected] No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
