On 30 Jun 2012, at 21:57, meekerdb wrote:
On 6/30/2012 12:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 29 Jun 2012, at 21:20, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> You said yourself that the first person cannot be defined. How
could we verify that prediction? Except by feeling to be one of
the W and M reconstituted person. And from their points of viex,
the prediction of being in both place is simply refuted.
Refuted?? As I said before if you really had complete information
then you could make 2 predictions:
1) I Bruno Marchal will write in my diary "I Bruno Marchal am now
in Washington and only Washington".
2) I Bruno Marchal will write in my diary "I Bruno Marchal am now
in Moscow and only Moscow".
Afterwards both diaries can be shown to anyone who is interested
proving that there was no indeterminacy and the prediction is
confirmed to be completely correct.
But from the 1-pov, we know in advance that those two prediction
are incompatible. So you can make one more which is "1) OR 2)".
I think it's "1) AND 2)".
We asked on what will be the future 1-pov. As 1-pov, "1) and "2)" are
incompatible, unless you suppose some telepathy between the two copies
(but with comp this would mean the level was not right, or that comp
is inconsistent).
John gave two predictions, which is not a prediction. To predict that
the market will crash + to predict that the market will not crash is
not a prediction. If I ask what is the chance that it will rain, I
will not be happy with an answer like it 1) it will rain + 2) it will
not rain. Still less with it will rain and it will not rain.
Things become paradoxical only if you make the assumption that
there can only be one Bruno Marchal, therefore the assumption must
be untrue.
Things become contradictory when you confuse 1 pov and 3 pov,
leading to "1) and 2)" which is non sense.
The assumption is not that there is only one Bruno Marchal, but
that all those Bruno Marchal, whoever they are will still each feel
to be only one of them. "Oh I am the one in Moscow, and not the one
in Washington, and I was unable to predict that fact, unless using
a "or".
Suppose you predict "I will be in Washinton." Then the Bruno in
Washington will be right and the Bruno is Moscow will say, "Oh, I
was wrong."
Exactly, and with comp we have to listen to both. If not, in the MWI,
I can predict that the up+down electron, that I will measure in the
{up, down} base, is always up.
Bruno
> You have a machine with some button, and you are asked to make a
prediction on the immediate personal outcome of a simple experiment.
Right, and the prediction is easy to make and it is perfect.
1) or 2). But that leads to the indeterminacy.
> you sill confuse 1 and 3 views.
You keep repeating that over and over like a mantra, but there is
a possibility it is you that is confused.
It is up to you to show this, but, here again, you deny that after
the duplication, whoever you will be, will recognize that he was
not able top have predicted with certainty the particular outcome.
This can only be "I will be in such city", and this will be refuted
by the one in the other city. With comp, we agree that there are
both "bruno marchal", and so the prediction was wrong. It was a
selection in disguise.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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