Hi CowBoy,
On 07 Nov 2012, at 15:55, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
As I read it, the Übermensch is the being that is aware of the
limits of Mensch ideology and values. Of course this can be hijacked
to support discrimination against groups, but only if you want to be
dishonest. But he emphasizes that abandoning the humanist conception
of values is only a destruction insofar as it is paired with " the
sovereign power of affirmation" and the ability, to reach a place,
where we can say "yes" to the world, without guilt or dishonesty in
conscience. To Zarathustra, negation has come to dominate human
thought, it has become constitutive of human self-image: with this
human, the whole world sinks and sickens, the whole of life is
depreciated, everything known slides into its own "nothingness".
Zarathustra says "Yes and Amen in a tremendous and unbounded
way" (see Chapter six of "Thus spoke Zarathustra", if you're
interested) and so does the Übermensch. This paints for me "joyful
agnostic" with human entity questioned as ontological primitive.
And again, Zarathustra makes fun of the followers that take him
seriously. But I don't want to sell Nietzsche here as he wouldn't
want to be "sold"; just to point out that the revaluation of all
values and your unease, as they appear framed to me here, are not
warranted by anything I've read.
All right. You convince me. I might need to reread him. I was very
young when reading it, and I was still living some WAR II consequences
(I am born in Germany). A joyful agnostic is certainly better than a
fundamentalist atheist, sure.
Bruno
On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 06 Nov 2012, at 17:45, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
Hi Roger,
If you want to read him that trivially, go ahead. The constant,
eternal revaluation of all values. This is just implied by asking
"what's going on?".
And yes, this is gently consistent with never ending platonic
questioning + a popper style negation, even humor, on his own
statements, that they are wrong, that they not be overly
concretized. Nietzsche never "taught his own ideas", although he
was active academically very early.
If you'd open a single page, you'd see how conflicted he was about
the transmission of fruits of introspection. But I wouldn't want to
offend you with any of that, or that I think he anticipated the
computer + its consequences more than once, as you already have
made up your mind in a rather discriminatory fashion without
reading the man/machine in his native language, so...
I am not merely a platonist: also guitar cowboy and dance and jam
in every realm I can and keep my platonism in check with my sense
of groove and swing + good steak, now and then. I have a taste for
the Dionysian joys, for colors, and richness, variety as much as I
love Platonia.
But Platonia, in this abstract technical sense you imply, is pretty
joyless and dull. Nietzsche is good antidote for that. On Kant he
mused once: "What kind of a soul must build such an unassailable
fortress of thought? What is it distracting itself from, building
these labyrinths of descriptive power for a group of disciples it
will never admit to itself, that it vainly wants to have? For why
else build such fortresses?"
For these reason I'd suggest for you to not read him, especially
not in German. Right on with "garbage he taught", would be the
first thing he'd admit and laugh.
It does look we agree that Nietzsche was a poet with a deep talent.
I read "Also Sprach Zarathustra", in german and in french, and I
love it, but, later, rereading it, I got a feeling of uneasiness. I
got it also with many people idolatring Nietzche, or taking granted
what he said, I dunno.
It might be, correct me if I am wrong, a sort of remanent atheism in
the work, or perhaps it is, like with art, just a question of taste.
May be I have unconsciously rely his "uber mensh" with what happened
in WW II.
I certainly do appreciare Richard Strauss "Also Sprach Zarathustra",
but that's thanks to "2001 Space Odyssey", plausibly!
Bruno
PGC
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>
wrote:
Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
So what ? I have no stomach for the revaluation
of all values and the other garbage Nietzsche
taught. If you are truly a platonist, you would
agree with me.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/6/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-06, 10:35:15
Subject: Re: Re: Is Nietzsche's shade wandering in platonia ?
Hi Roger,
So what?
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy
By poet, I suspect that Bruno was attesting to
Nietzsche's ability to think in terms of metaphors
(such as Apollo and Dionysius in his "Genealogy of Morals." )
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
11/6/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-11-06, 07:48:01
Subject: Re: Is Nietzsche's shade wandering in platonia ?
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Bruno Marchal ?rote:
On 05 Nov 2012, at 13:43, Roger Clough wrote:
Shades of Nietzsche ! Tell me it isn't so !
No, it is not so. No worry to have. I am glad we share some
uneasiness with Nietzche. I take it for a great poet, but a bad
philosopher.
?
Then your German is better than mine, as a native speaker. Having
enough distance and humor for one's own statements doesn't come
through much in the translations. I don't think he ever took
himself "seriously" as a philosopher, and he often pokes subtly fun
at the notion.
Ok, I'll get back to the herd then :)
Cowboy
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