Dear Roger, Only 4d spacetime, matter and energy are physical. Everything else is non-physical and therefore part of the mind. This includes comp up thru quantum mechanics. Only 4 dimensions for example of the 11d universe are physical.
The 4d-block mindspace (more accurate terminology) contains a reflection of 3d physical space as a slice of the 4d quantum mind. The 4th space dimension of the quantum mind is timelike in the sense that it contains the flux on which the arithmetic computations of all future possibilities are written, as well as which ones became physical. In MWI they all become physical- all possibilities become physical- which makes the 4d-block mindspace deterministic and thereby eliminates the need for time and consciousness. In comp, 1-p reintroduces time and consciousness. In string theory, time is a given physical dimension but otherwise rather mysterious. I suggest that whoever designed this mind/body duality put time in explicitly to allow for consciousness from the beginning rather than wait for it to evolve. You may call the designer, god. And I think it's a useful catchall word. But we should be careful not to do to theology what we do to global warming- that is to give it human characteristics. I come from the perspective of having practiced every major religion in the world. In fact I practice the major elements of all of them on a daily basis, what I call yanniruism. I started with protestant christianity, then catholic christianity, then years of atheism, then a decade of judaism, and finally atheistic buddhism, sufism and atheistic hinduism. BTW reform judaism turned out to be basically atheistic. Regarding who the designer is, the best answer I know of comes from sufism. Their ultimate god is known by a sound, "hu", and the objective of all sufi practices seems to be to get to hear that sound. It is what the blood rushing thru your brain sounds like. In yanniruism, Hu is the platonic source of mathematics from which form derives. I think there is also a sound for the father god and the son god, respectively "Ho" and "Ha". I get this from the Hindu mantra for the 3rd eye chakra, om na ma ye ho va, and from the hindu mantra for the heart chakra, om na ma ya weh ha. I associate the Ha god with the universe and the Ho god with the 4d block mindspace of the Metaverse. Please consider this paragraph as my bio. The Metaverse is perhaps an infinite 3D-space that includes the 3D-spaces of all existing universes. Each universe contains a cubic lattice of Calabi-Yau compact-manifold particles, a 3D-subspace that I consider to be the comp machine of the universe. It regulates all physical particle interactions based on inherent laws and constants and gives us a universal consciousness based on its incompleteness. But where do the laws and constants come from? A higher-order source of comp is required. Hence the function of the Metaverse. Here it is useful to introduce the total number of possible bits of information thought to be available in a holographic universe, 10^120, the so-called Lloyd limit. I accept Martin Rees suggestion that when a physical process requires more bits than this number, the process may become emergent, like consciousness is emergent due to incompleteness. Processes in the universe are I think incomplete because of the Lloyd limit of information. It's a function of the surface area of the universe. The 10^120 is based on the observable universe (radius 46 BLY) but the actual holographic universe could be much larger. Penrose suggests an upper limit of 10^122 bits. I suggest that this is not enough for comp to develop physical laws, constants and matter. For that I think we need the Metaverse which even if finite has a superabundance of bits for computation purposes. Therefore I conclude that the laws and constants of physics are comp derived in the Metaverse and written on the 4D-block mindspace of the Metaverse. Indeed for comp to control how each universe inflates by way of flux compactification, there must be a source of comp outside the universe. Using the old adage that what's up is down, but also from the viewpoint of Metaverse/universe compatibility, I conjecture that the Metaverse also contains a 4D-spacetime, separate from the universe, at least outside of the universe, plus a 3D-subspace containing most likely a cubic lattice of Calabi-Yau compact-manifold particles, the ultimate comp machine. However, because of the size and nearly infinite completeness of Meta-comp, there is some question if it could be consciousness. Yet it can predict the consciousness that exists in each universe. So in some sense it, the quantum mind, knows about consciousness but may not itself be capable of consciousness- quantum deism.. I suspect that the Meta-comp machine joins with the uni-comp machine within each universe, or at least they act in concert, perhaps resulting in a subspace full of 12d-particles that could control both physical and psychological worlds. A fellow on the Mind/brain list has such a theory but without my metaphysical trimmings. I want to talk about the implication of a hologaphic universe on the speed of comp processing and in turn on quantum interpetations, but I think enough said for now. I wonder if any will even read this far. Thanks for the opportunity and stimulus to present this system analysis. I really appreciate being on this list. Richard On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi Richard Ruquist > > The 4 dimensional or even the 11 dimensional universe > cannot contain mind, because mind is nonphysical and > they are physical. So the block universe is a waste of time. > > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Richard Ruquist > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2013-02-03, 07:19:51 > Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe > > Roger, > > I think the block universe (not quite accurate terminology) > is actually the 4-dimensional quantum mind and in it is written all > possible futures and pasts based on comp and quantum mechanics > as well as info on what became physical and is now in the past. > Richard > > PS: Quantum mechanics, and I think string theory, is of course derived > from comp. > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:15 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: >> Hi Alberto G. Corona >> >> My understanding is that the block universe is the physical universe, >> so it does not include the world of mind. >> >> >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> From: Alberto G. Corona >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2013-02-02, 14:14:51 >> Subject: Re: Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe >> >> In the world of the mind, that is, in what we call reality, it causes >> everithing because causality is another phenomenon introduced by the mind >> (1p) >> >> In the timeless view, there is no causality buy casualty Viewed from >> above >> in a broad perspective, then to cause something is to select it, so there >> is >> a identity between the anthropic principle at large, natural selection and >> voluntary conscious selection by a mind. all three can be seen as >> causations when we examine them from a 1p perspective, in a timeful >> fashion. >> But viewing the block universe from above, simply they are correlations. >> There is no causality but local phenomenons. >> >> I have to mention that a view from above would need a mind with space-time >> qualia and probably a meta-time that we can only imagine. for this mind, >> creation of the universes adquire another very different meaning, since he >> would look at the complete figure of the universe, the beginning and at >> the >> end of it simultaneously. he would see what exist for us (the phenomena >> that >> we have selected by the fact that we live in them) and what does not exist >> (because we don′nt observe it, and maybe we can not even imagine it). >> >> >> 2013/2/2 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> >>> >>> Hi Alberto G. Corona >>> >>> Does your version of mind actually do anything ? >>> >>> >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> From: Alberto G. Corona >>> Receiver: everything-list >>> Time: 2013-02-02, 04:43:54 >>> Subject: Re: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe >>> >>> I do think that a block universe can contain minds in a certain way. The >>> objections against that are based in the absence of time, but space(3D >>> geometry) and time can and should be a product of the machinery of the >>> mind, >>> in the kantian sense. But while in Kant things in themselves are >>> unreachable, in the block universe the thing in themselves are pure >>> mathematics. so there are infinite minds at different moments that >>> produce >>> psychological phenomenons in coherence with the infinite sucession of >>> brains >>> along their lines of life, that are perceived psychologicaly as time. >>> these >>> brains and living beings, are localy perceived as products of natural >>> selection, but seen from above, their lines of life are just trajectories >>> where, by fortunate collisions of particles, chemical and electrical >>> signals, the entropy is exceptionally maintained constant (until the end >>> of >>> the line of life) >>> >>> But the minds are somehow in another world, the world of the mind, which >>> includes not only our thoughs but everithing we see around us, because >>> everithing the mind see is produced by the machinery of the brain. Then >>> the >>> block universe of mathematics brings only the coherent substrate where >>> the >>> world of the mind can appear by evolution. Because it is a world with >>> laws >>> and rules, given by the mathematical nature behind, it is not a >>> collection >>> of boltzmann brains, or, if it is, they are a extraordinary persistent >>> and >>> coherent form of it so that it appear to contain laws of nature and >>> shared >>> experiences, because we can ask ourselves and communicate and agree, on >>> these laws and these experiences. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/1/31 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> >>>> >>>> Hi Bruno Marchal >>>> >>>> The block universe is the physical universe. So we are not part of it, >>>> for it does not allow subjectivity, which is nonphysical. Or >>>> mathematics or comp, which are also nonphysical. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>>> From: Bruno Marchal >>>> Receiver: everything-list >>>> Time: 2013-01-30, 12:45:53 >>>> Subject: Re: Lessons from the Block Universe >>>> >>>> On 29 Jan 2013, at 15:04, Richard Ruquist wrote: >>>> >>>> > A block universe does not allow for consciousness. >>>> >>>> With comp consciousness does not allow any (aristotelian) universes. >>>> >>>> There is comp block mindscape, and the universe(s) = the border of the >>>> mindscape as seen from inside. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > The fact the we all possess consciousness, so we think, >>>> > means that our universe is not completely blocked, >>>> >>>> From inside. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > although the deviations from "block" may be minor >>>> > and inconsequential regarding the Omega Point. >>>> >>>> The comp mind-body problems can be restated by the fact that with >>>> comp, there is an infinity of omega points, and the physics of here >>>> and now should be retrieved from some sum or integral on all omega >>>> points. >>>> >>>> By using the self-reference logics we got all the nuances we need (3p, >>>> 1p, 1p-plural, communicable, sharable, observable, etc.). >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > Richard. >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:18 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >> Here's an essay that is suggestive of Bruno's distinction between >>>> >> what is >>>> >> provable and what is true (knowable) but unprovable. Maybe this is >>>> >> a place >>>> >> where COMP could contribute to the understanding of QM. >>>> >> >>>> >> Brent >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Lessons from the Block Universe >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Ken Wharton >>>> >> Department of Physics and Astronomy >>>> >> San Jos State University >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> http://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-files/Wharton_Wharton_Essay.pdf?phpMyAdmin=0c371ccdae9b5ff3071bae814fb4f9e9 >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> In Liouville mechanics, states of incomplete >>>> >> knowledge exhibit phenomena analogous to those exhibited >>>> >> by pure quantum states. Among these are the existence >>>> >> of a no-cloning theorem for such states [21, 23], >>>> >> the impossibility of discriminating such states with certainty >>>> >> [21, 24], the lack of exponential divergence of such >>>> >> states (in the space of epistemic states) under chaotic >>>> >> evolution [25], and, for correlated states, many of the >>>> >> features of entanglement [26]. On the other hand, states >>>> >> of complete knowledge do not exhibit these phenomena. >>>> >> This suggests that one would obtain a better analogy >>>> >> with quantum theory if states of complete knowledge >>>> >> were somehow impossible to achieve, that is, if somehow >>>> >> maximal knowledge was always incomplete knowledge >>>> >> [21, 22, 27]. This idea is borne out by the results >>>> >> of this paper. In fact, the toy theory suggests that the >>>> >> restriction on knowledge should take a particular form, >>>> >> namely, that one抯 knowledge be quantitatively equal to >>>> >> one抯 ignorance in a state of maximal knowledge. >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> It is important to bear in mind that one cannot derive >>>> >> quantum theory from the toy theory, nor from any >>>> >> simple modification thereof. The problem is that the >>>> >> toy theory is a theory of incomplete knowledge about >>>> >> local and noncontextual hidden variables, and it is well >>>> >> known that quantum theory cannot be understood in this >>>> >> way [28, 30, 31]. This prompts the obvious question: if >>>> >> a quantum state is a state of knowledge, and it is not >>>> >> knowledge of local and noncontextual hidden variables, >>>> >> then what is it knowledge about? We do not at present >>>> >> have a good answer to this question. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> >> Groups >>>> >> "Everything List" group. >>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> >> send an >>>> >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >> To post to this group, send email to everything- >>>> >> l...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >> Visit this group at >>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>>> >> . >>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> > Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> > send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> > Visit this group at >>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>>> > . >>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an >>>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> DreamMail - Your mistake not to try it once, but my mistake for your >>>> leaving off. use again www.dreammail.org >>>> <%--DreamMail_AD_END--> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an >>>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alberto. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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