On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 3:38 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 2/5/2013 9:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 05 Feb 2013, at 18:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> > >> >> On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote: >> >> Hi meekerdb >> >> >> There's nothing wrong with science as science. >> But a problem arises when you apply the results to theology. >> >> Two completely different worlds. >> >> >> That's indeed a point where string atheists agree with string >> christian. Let us try to be not serious on theology, so we can assert the >> fairy tales. Strong Christian are happy because they feel like they can >> contradict the scientific evidences, and the atheists are happy so they can >> continue to mock the christians, and continue to sleep on their own >> (materialist) dogma. >> > > You put meaning in atheism which is not there... an atheist can perfectly > be an idealist... materialism is not part of the definition of atheism. > > > Definition here are often contradictory. Some years ago, the definition > keep changing. > > Can you give me the name of an atheist who is idealist? > > > Almost all of them by my definition of a-theist, e.g. Bosanquet, Fichte, > McTaggart,... Of course by your definition, hardly anyone is an atheist > since it would be denying there is anything fundamental; something like > "It's turtles all the way down." > > If you refer to Johann Gottlieb...Fichte was definitely not an atheist by your definition. In "Grundlage der gesamten Wissenschaftlehre" he refers constantly to the "absolute I", not to be confused with the individual. In later writing you see this morph into interchangeable uses of "absolute", "being", and "god", which German scholarly consensus considers unambiguous today. "True Self-discovery", including all the extensions of self into action and its products, is the same as "God discovery", and that philosophers have no role, but to remind of this connection. That was the controversy that got him in trouble as blasphemy to religious interests, the inversion of man's "fallenness" into "God, if on truthful self-discovery", not a denial of god. PGC ---- > Brent > > > Bruno > > > > > Quentin > >> >> That does not give much place for the genuine inquiry, I think. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> *From:* meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> >> *Receiver:* everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> *Time:* 2013-02-04, 13:48:50 >> *Subject:* Re: Topical combination >> >> On 2/4/2013 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 03 Feb 2013, at 12:30, Roger Clough wrote: >> >> Hi John Mikes >> � >> It says >> � >> "The Fabric of Eternity is the author's personal view of the Universe >> that allows for science and theology to explore the wonders of creation in >> peaceful unison.' >> � >> IMHO that is completely misguided, because the worlds they >> understand燼re separate magisteria, to use� >> Stephan Jay Gould's phrase.� Science deals with the physical world, and >> theology deals with >> the nonphysical world. >> >> >> Only an Aristotelian can say "science deals with the physical world". >> This sums up physicalism. >> >> A Platonist says that science is just the modest tool/method to deal >> with any subject. >> >> >> Except it was Plato who thought he could understand the world by just >> thinking about it, while it was Aristotle who went out to observe and let >> the world teach him.� So who was modest and who was arrogant? >> >> Brent >> >> Allowing the abandon of science in the theological field can only be an >> invitation to the bad faith in there, and to the "don't ask" mentality. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> *DreamMail* - The first mail software supporting source tracking >> www.dreammail.org >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2897 / Virus Database: 2639/6070 - Release Date: 01/31/13 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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