Dear Bil B. you probably have thought in these lines during similar long
periods as I did. It was ~2 decades ago when I defined
i n f o r m a t i o n as something with (at least) 2 ends:
1. the notion (in whatever format it shows up) - and
2. the acceptor (adjusting the notion in whatever context it can be
perceived - appercipiated (adjusted>).
I have no idea how to make a connection between information (anyway how one
defines it) and the (inner?) disorder level of anything (entropy?). I
dislike this thermodynamic term alltogether.
Later on I tried to refine my wording into:
RELATIONS and the capability of recognizing them. That moved away from a
'human(?)' framework. E. g. I called the 'closeness of a '(+)' charge to a
'(-)' potential an information so it came close to SOME consciousness (=(?)
*response to relations*), no matter in what kind of domain.
Do you feel some merit to my thinking?
John Mikes
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 2:06 AM, William R. Buckley
<bill.buck...@gmail.com>wrote:
> There is information (I take information to be a
> manifestation of entropy) and it is always represented
> in the form of a pattern (a distribution) of the units
> of mass/energy of which the Universe is composed. I
> think that semiotic signs are simply specific bits
> of information; I will use the terms synonymously.
>
> Information has meaning only within context. For many
> people, context is taken to mean one piece of information
> as compared to another piece of information. I do not
> take this meaning of context when I discuss semiotics.
> Instead, I take semiotic context to be the acceptor of
> the information. Hence, all meaning resides a priori
> within information acceptors.
>
> What you know you have always known; the sign merely
> serves to bring that knowledge to your conscious mind.
>
> That you may have intention and so comport your delivery
> of information to another acceptor has not bearing upon
> the subsequent acceptance or rejection of that information
> by the target acceptor. Acceptance or rejection of
> information is determined solely by the accepting or
> rejecting context (acceptor).
>
> Your mere presence sends information regardless of some
> conscious intent. Indeed, your absence does equally
> deliver information, for the target acceptor will see
> a definite difference in available information sources
> whether you are present or not.
>
> Consider a line worker in a bean processing plant where
> the task is to cull *bad* dried beans from *good* dried
> beans as they go by on a conveyor belt; the *bad* beans
> are removed by hand, so the line worker is constantly
> looking for *bad* beans while constantly being aware
> of the fact that not many of the beans are *bad*. The
> consciousness is aware of both that which is present
> and that which is not present.
>
> Further, what any information that you emit means to
> you is irrelevant to the meaning that another may take
> for that information. Indeed, it is via reliance upon
> -Cultural Norms- that your point regarding Morse Code
> becomes relevant. It is perfectly reasonable for an
> ornery person to simply reject such norms and act
> otherwise; your expectation originates in you, not
> the targets of information you broadcast.
>
> >>The truth of your statement is no reply to my claim,
> >>that how another receiver of signs responds is
> >>irrelevant to your knowledge, save the one case of
> >>conveyance of knowledge between semiotic units;
> >>where you intend for knowledge to be conveyed. In
> >>that case, it is behooving of the sender to ensure
> >>that the receiver can receive and understand the
> >>message.
> >
> >I'm not sure what you are bringing up here, but I
> >would say that my point is that all messages have
> >multiple levels of reception, perhaps as many levels
> >as their are receivers in the universe. At the same
> >time, if we are assuming human senders and receivers
> >and a content range which is highly normative and
> >practical (i.e. Morse code alphabet rather than
> >emoticons, inside jokes, etc), then the information
> >entropy is reduced dramatically.
> >
> >Maybe you can give me an example of that you mean
> >by the irrelevance of the receiver's knowledge. Does
> >that include the expectation of the possibility of
> >there being a receiver?
> >
> >>In all other cases, the recipient response is
> >>irrelevant; all values and measures originate in
> >>the sender of the message.
> >
> >I would tend to agree with that, although the
> >expectation of the recipient response informs the
> >motives, values, and measures of the sender -
> >otherwise there would be no message being sent.
> >
> >
> >>The receiver of transmitted information is
> >>irrelevant to the mechanics of that transmission.
> >
> >I'm not sure what you mean. Again, maybe an example
> >would help. We expect that human audiences can see,
> >so we have TV screens to provide optical stimulation.
> >If we didn't have eyes, there would be no mechanism
> >of TV.
> >
>
> The word should have been *reception* - receipt of
> information (acceptance of a sign) is a function of
> the value that the acceptor puts on that sign. That
> value is most certainly not tied to the delivery
> mechanism, even if some delivery mechanisms are
> preferred over others.
>
> What matters to information acceptance is disposition
> of the acceptor to that acceptance. If the acceptor
> does not *like* the sign, it will reject the sign; of
> course, this means that all signs are accepted just
> long enough to decide if they are sufficiently meaningful
> or not; if so, they are accepted else they are rejected.
>
> >Craig
> >
> >>wrb
> >
>
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