On 10 Apr 2013, at 22:55, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 10.04.2013 22:52 Telmo Menezes said the following:
...
I suspect life is just meaningless from the outside. I'd say that
pain and pleasure are fine-tunned by evolution to maximise the
survivability of species in an environment that is largely also
generated by evolution. It's a strange loop.
What difference do you see when one changes evolution in your
sentence by god?
The difference is that evolution assumes some mechanism.
With comp you can define pain by the qualia associated to anything
contradicting some universal goal.
The most typical universal goal is "protect yourself".
I imagine we send robots on a far planet where there are some acid
rains which might demolish their circuits. We will provide mechanism
so that when such rain occurs the robots find quickly some shelter. No
need of pain at this stage, but if the machine is Löbian, she will be
able to rationalize her behavior, so that when we ask her why she
protect herself, she will will talk about her non communicable qualia
she got when the rain is coming, and she might well call it pain.
Such a theory predicted that if someone burn alive through suicide,
that person would not necessarily feel pain. As sad as it is, this has
been confirmed by some testimony of people doing just that. They
describe being burn even as pleasurable, until they are brought to
some hospital and then the pain becomes quite acute. (Hmm... I don't
find the interview of women who burns themselves in Afghanistan when
their husband cheat them, I will search when I have more times).
This can also be related with some ZEN technic to diminish pain by
"accepting it", and used in Japan to survive Chinese interrogations).
Pain can be the qualia brought by a frustration in a situation
contradicting instinctive universal goals.
The qualia itself can be explained by the combination self-reference +
truth, that is the relatively correct self-reference, which lead the
machine to acknowledge non justifiable truth. The negative aspect of
the affect is brought by the contradiction with respect to universal
goal, and is usually more intense when the goal is instinctive or
hidden.
Note that this needs a notion of truth, so the Platonist God is not
far away, making your point, after all.
Bruno
Evgenii
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
