On 29 May 2013, at 00:10, John Mikes wrote:
Evgenyi, you write very 'deep' and 'smart things.
One bothers me:
"..the neurological substrates that generate consciousness."
first the anthropocentric sound (neurological?) and then the
unidentified term of Ccness.
In this same post (cf Russell and Brent) different contents are
proposed, still with (some) "awareness" type side-effect in the
shadow, while I keep propagating the final result of my 2 decade
long struggle to "generalize" the term, used by EVERY author as
THEIR theory required, into RESPONSE TO (first: information, then
refined into) RELATIONS.
From such wording all human, animal, plant, in fact all DNA-based-
and not based Ccness variations can be derived.
Neocortex etc. makes it easier. The thermostat has none of the kind,
yet it exercises the PROCESS of CCnes quite well.
We T H I N K in human terms with our human mind (indeed: language).
The fact that we are ignorant in following other "languages" than
human does not mean that those creatures have none. The 'crystal'
decides (in its ways) whether to build further links, or terminate
the growth, a 'mental object' (idea?) decides(!) whether to branch
out into broader domains, or let it be as is.
Bruno's restrictions (Loeb, comp, numbers) are regrettably
suppressing his brillinat mind into limitations he does not want to
transcend. Pity.
John, I respectfully disagree with the term 'restriction'.
Löb, numbers, ... are consequence of comp, and if you postulate non-
comp, you become the one restricting consciousness to a smaller class
of entities.
Comp can be seen as a restriction with respect to panpsychism, OK. But
saying that every entities are conscious makes consciousness into a
trivial notion, and we loss the explanation of where the physical
(quanta and qualia) comes from.
Bruno
Brent sometimes observes limits of a rather physicalistic way in his
conclusions (pity, again) and Russell seems not to forget sometimes
what he wrote in his books or taught to students.
I freed up into agnosticism and accept critical denigration. It was
not easy. I had to abandon 'that' conventional science of my 50+
years lectured on 3 continents and start my 'thinking' anew. I could
not review and start again, if a nonagenarian is wrong, he should
close shop and go fishing.
John Mikes
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru>
wrote:
"The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism
from experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates
that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and
neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the
capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight
of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the
neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human
animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures,
including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates."
http://fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf
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