Brent: *"...I don't think consciousness is an all-or-nothing property.."*
In that unnerving struggle of 2 decades to 'generalize' (some of) those zillion positions the diverse authors exuded about Ccness (to fit THEIR own theories - whatever they thought it was) I concluded that what most people have in mind for Ccness is a - *P R O C E S S - *. This is why I ended up with *RESPONSE *in my identification. Not "property". Not "a thing". Not "a quale". So I don't go with your question: 'Ccness of what?' "about" maybe. I accept your position as SUCH, especially if you restrict your image to "human-like Ccness". The anthropocentric view is a cut-out and a specialty. The term Ccness - IMO - is an artifact to speak about. If I follow the 'response to relations' explanation, the word would be rather 'existence', 'infinite complexity', maybe: 'life' or even 'totality' (The World Entirety) - in a fashion whatever we have in our own mini-solipsism about the world we live in. Or: I put down my weapons and stop using it at all, accepting YOUR (or others') version of a human (animal?) treat based on awareness etc. as used in tons of literature. As I said many times: I am agnostic, not a fighter. John M On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 7:53 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > On 5/27/2013 2:18 PM, John Mikes wrote: > > Bruno: > do you indeed exclude the "other" animals from being selfconcious? or - > having a logic on their own level? Or any other trait we assign (identify?) > for humans - in our terms? > > A question about plants (rather: about being conscious): > you may feel free to define 'being conscious' in human terms, or mammal > (etc.) terms, but the "response" plants exude to information > (circumstances, impact. etc.) shows reactivity we may appropriate to us > humans. > > So do not deny consciousness from fellow DNA-bearing plants. > > How about the DNA-not-bearing other creatures? (crystals, stones, water, > impact you may call energy, - whatever?) > Anthropocentric? zoocentric? phitocentric? what-CENTRIC? > > > I don't think consciousness is an all-or-nothing property. You have to > ask "Consciousness of what?" There's consciousness of surroundings: sound, > photons, temperature, chemical concentrations.... There's consciousness of > internal states. Consciousness of sex. Consciousness of one's location. > Consciousness of one's status in a tribe. I think human-like consciousness > requires language of some kind. > > Brent > > > > > JM > > On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > >> >> On 26 May 2013, at 13:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: >> >> "The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from >>> experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that non-human >>> animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological >>> substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit >>> intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that >>> humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that >>> generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, >>> and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these >>> neurological substrates." >>> >>> http://fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf >>> >> >> Always a pleasure, if not some relief, to hear that. >> >> My opinion, for what is worth, is that all animals are conscious, and the >> one described above are already self-conscious, and "potentially Löbian" >> (meaning: like you, me, and Peano Arithmetic). >> >> Are plants conscious? I don't know. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
