On 06 Nov 2013, at 17:25, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/6/2013 12:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
There is nothing wrong being rich, unless the money is stolen money, and
that's the case today.
There's nothing morally wrong with being rich, but it creates an ethical
problem. Being much wealthier than others bestows a lot of power. If
there is no effective government (like parts of Somalia) then the rich hire
a personal army to protect their property. Where there is government, the
police protect their property and the rich attempt to control the
government through propaganda and buying influence. So long as the rich
are not so rich as to live in a different 'world' than the middle class and
they are relatively diverse this works OK. But the system seems to be
unstable in that the rich can and do use their wealth and power to get more
wealth and power - and not necessarily productively. So those who inherit
wealth tend to gain even more wealth. Society needs to do something to
stabilize the system and prevent the increasing concentration of wealth.
*I completely agree. The problem is that with money, you can produce more
money in two ways, honestly or dishonestly.*...
Bruno, before I touch the "basics" - could you explain what you would
consider to produce *M O R E money HONESTLY?* Same question to Brent's
text above: *that the rich can and do use their wealth and power to get
more wealth and power - and not necessarily productively*.
I don't see a 'productive' way how 'the rich' get more wealth and power by
using their wealth and power. It is exploitation, political scam, bribery,
terrorism, etc. - all in the framework of accepted "morals" of the system
(either capitalist, or fascist).
I recall some basics (I am no 'Socialist') from Marx:
NOBODY *owns *Nature so any natural products (mining, farming, or other)
are valued 'honestly' as recompensation for the *efforts* invested into the
natural process "for getting money" - honestly - productively, without
exploitation. Does any mine-owner work on his product? Does any Farming
conglomerated stockholder work honestly on the crop? I do not advocate the
CEO to sweep the floor: there is tasks' - organization in which everyone
has a "role to perform", but are the roles proportionately paid for? Mao
tried to switch 'roles' temporarily - he failed. Lenin realized that such
just distribution is impossible in today's society and postulated FIRST the
development of som "COMMUINST" MAN who lives up to such 'just distribution'
of benefits - surely realizing the impossibility of such development. All
other ("Socialist?") countries suffered from the same malaise as the
(democraticly?) capitalistic ones: the leadership and its power usurped
wealth, acquired MONEY and POWER on the back of the 'not so fortunate'
exploited majority.
Alas, I have no solution to remedy the situation.
Re-hire Dr. Guillotine is unrealistic.
JM
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>
> On 06 Nov 2013, at 17:25, meekerdb wrote:
>
> On 11/6/2013 12:58 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>
> There is nothing wrong being rich, unless the money is stolen money, and
> that's the case today.
>
>
> There's nothing morally wrong with being rich, but it creates an ethical
> problem. Being much wealthier than others bestows a lot of power. If
> there is no effective government (like parts of Somalia) then the rich hire
> a personal army to protect their property. Where there is government, the
> police protect their property and the rich attempt to control the
> government through propaganda and buying influence. So long as the rich
> are not so rich as to live in a different 'world' than the middle class and
> they are relatively diverse this works OK. But the system seems to be
> unstable in that the rich can and do use their wealth and power to get more
> wealth and power - and not necessarily productively. So those who inherit
> wealth tend to gain even more wealth. Society needs to do something to
> stabilize the system and prevent the increasing concentration of wealth.
>
>
> I completely agree. The problem is that with money, you can produce more
> money in two ways, honestly or dishonestly. Once a few "fake money" (based
> on a lie) appears, it corrupts the whole system, and the society get
> pyramidal, with a higher gap between poor and rich, and eventually this
> crush down.
>
> We must think about a way to prevent that. Some state can play a role. But
> we have to get rid of the bandits first, and there is an easy way: legalize
> all drugs. Regulate them, and tax them proportionally by the "real" harm
> (that is measured by statistics no more confusing a -> b and b -> a) they
> do.
>
> May be that is not enough. Prohibitionists should be judged. We have to
> get spiritual or mature enough to understand that.
>
> The state must ensure the fairness of competition among products, their
> traceability, the presence of notice with the secondary effects, etc. But
> the state has nothing to say about what is good or not for any one. That's
> between you and you, with the help of your shaman if you decide so, but it
> is your decision, to say "yes" or "no" to this or that shaman.
>
> Stopping prohibition will not solve all problems. But continuing
> prohibition aggravates the situation, ... except for the super-riches and
> the bandits.
>
> Bruno
>
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
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