Chris, I just read a study by the U of Colorado, published in the Journal, Bioscience, claiming that up to 1 million bats have been killed by green energy wind turbines. The arrival of solar power, its decline in price, and thus it will power all human civilization never arrives. Its what the math people call asymptotic, which in this case means, it never achieves target, it never gets there. The same with nuclear fusion, despite happy reports. It never gets there after decades of research. Thus, it cannot be Relied Upon to substitute for Dirty energy sources. What might prime the technological pump is the market place, where supply and demand are invoked, and there is commercial reason to produce minus government hand outs to crony companies, in Germany, and in the US. With tax payer monies, these companies vanish, like farts in a high wind, like Solyndra did. Unreliable substitutes are non substitutes.
-----Original Message----- From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sat, Nov 9, 2013 12:12 am Subject: RE: Our Demon-Haunted World From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:49 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World If you hold the Rational Optimist view aka Matt Ridley, people will act altruistic much more, if they get a reward, then in they get jack. >>A dictatorship of your own preference is suitable for many, but not for most. Plus, think about pure materiality. If a cruel dictator has his goon point a semi-automatic at each of our heads and demands of us to immediately produce an energy source that will power his civilization for the rest of his life, and unless we can produce this energy source, bang goes the gun. I will shout shale gas or even tar sands. If you shout out sun and wind, bang goes the gun against your skull. Why? Because even after decades of work, even after daily advances, there's no city on earth that is now powered by sun or win, were that it was so. My point is we cannot legislate reality. I will take the marketplace with all its flaws versus coercive government. Which would you choose? I do not subscribe to your Manichean world view, in fact I find it ill reflective of the complexity and nuance of reality. You like to see things in a either this or that kind of way, and maybe that works for you, but it doesn’t work for me. Are you really that certain you know your energy facts. Global installed solar consumption went from 2.1 TWh in 2001 to 55.7 TWh in 2011; growing by a factor of more than 20X in 10years; this is reflected in the growth in installed capacity, which went from a little over 2GW of installed solar capacity in 2001 to around 20GW of installed capacity in 2011. In fact there is so much solar and wind electric capacity already installed in Germany that on days which are favorable for wind and solar power, the overabundance of supply can drive the wholesale price into sharply negative territory. The market inverts and in order to shed load onto the grid – when supply exceeds demand beyond the capacity of the grid to manage it -- you need to pay the grid operators because the grid cannot accept any more energy without becoming unstable – the grid is a balancing between instantaneous supply and demand (act at the speed of electricity) The cost per kwh of solar PV is following a Moore’s Law type progression in falling costs and the dollar per kwh of solar PV are closing in on the cost of coal generated electricity, which has been the least expensive (largely because it can externalize hundreds of billions of dollars per year of costs incurred by mining, and burning coal onto the commons). -----Original Message----- From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 9:44 pm Subject: RE: Our Demon-Haunted World -----Original Message----- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:26 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World >>Not to be sarcastic, but probably yes. Money from bitumin brings money for research into environmental remediation. It also helps liberate people from pouring cash into the OPEC world, which seems to only inflame Muslim passions. Plus the Canadians are world class technologists and will likely invent more efficient engines, and also fund the green technologies that you crave. Theres a reason why poor nations do not do technology well. You have a cornucopian view that we can go on making horrible messes on this planet without worrying about the consequences because somehow it will all get magically remediated.... yeah like that actually happens in the real world. Remediation is a cost center NOT a profit center; it is done only to the minimum level necessary in order to stay just this side of the law. You are free to say whatever you want of course, but I find it difficult to believe your hypothesis that the very same humans who profit from raping the earth will -- after the fact and after they have lined their pockets with ill-gotten wealth -- will somehow do a 180 degree turn and start behaving in the altruistic noble manner you seem so certain they will. Are you saying that the Arabs would be happier if they had no oil wealth... that all this money has made them hopping mad? Green technologies are already proving themselves -- without your plucky Canadian tar sand billionaires (some of whom are Texans by the way) deciding to invest their profits in green technology -- as if they would. -----Original Message----- From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:29 pm Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World Those plucky Canadians -- as you term them -- are criminally destroying vast swaths of Alberta turning it into a poisoned chemical saturated moonscape as well as sucking up vast amounts of water from other potential uses -- including agriculture. Will the bitumen sweated out of that sand be worth the ultimate costs to get it? On Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM, Jesse Mazer <laserma...@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:50 AM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:Fur sure, that was the truth. Now we got's shale gas, which seems to pay a lot better, is safer to go after, and is cleaner, carbon-wise. Unless you are buying into technological unemployment (robots, software) then we have to face the fact. BHO's Keynesian way has fallen on its ass and has stayed down, like a fighter throwing a fight, after a payoff. I've read Keynesians like Paul Krugman say that the level of stimulus was actually not enough by Keynesian standards (and too much went to tax cuts), but certainly the US economy with its level of stimulus did much better than most of the states that more thoroughly rejected Keynesianism and instead chose austerity in the midst of a recession, like the UK...see various graphs at http://graphsagainstausterity.tumblr.com/ (click on any graph to see the original article it came from) Increased government employment doesn't seem to generate tax revenue very well. Except government employment hasn't increased under Obama, it's actually been steadily decreasing during his presidency (apart from a brief spike when the decennial census was taken and they needed a lot of temporary census workers), due mostly to the Republicans in Congress, whereas under George W. Bush government employment was steadily increasing (this collapsing of the public sector is probably contributing quite a bit to the slow recovery). See the two graphs showing private sector and public sector jobs under Bush and Obama here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/04/public-and-private- sector-payroll-jobs-bush-and-obama.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.to post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. 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