I am not wedded to unworkable ideas, all I maintain, is before we switch off the dirty energy, we must be assured that the clean stuff produces enough watts.
-----Original Message----- From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 10, 2013 2:33 pm Subject: RE: Our Demon-Haunted World Who knows -- you may be interested in a Dutch idea to build an energy island in the North sea by diking around an area of sea then using periods of surplus wind power generation form the north sea offshore wind farms (of which there are quite a few now) to pump water out from inside of the diked off area lowering the water levels inside with respect to the sea level outside. Creating a reservoir of pumped storage that could be drawn down when supplies did not meet demand. Large scale pumped storage is by far the largest form of electric energy storage that currently exists and there are some interesting projects coming on line now – such as the Eagle Crest project in the deserts of Southern California which will provide 1300 MW of dispatchable power onto the grid and which pairs perfectly with the wind and solar generation facilities that are sited in that region. Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:19 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World I used to be a fan of Amory Lovins too but am concerned that better efficiencies might not get us across the bridge to Solar City. Lovin's Kevlar cars never took off, for one reason, is because they were so light that strong winds would guide them off the test track. If we weigh them down to be highway ready, there goes the mileage. New materials might do the trick architecturally, as you stated. I am personally sort of obsessed with the idea of using pumped storage at sea (probably costly) using wind power, ocean current to pump uphill, vast, amounts of sea water into synthetic reservoirs, and then get hydro-electric juice flowing for days or weeks from these structures. But, the efficiencies of moving tons of sea water uphill, may just suck at producing electricity? An energy sink is no energy source. -----Original Message----- From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 10, 2013 2:08 pm Subject: RE: Our Demon-Haunted World Seriously increasing our energy efficiency is key to building a bridge to a living future. One thing this whole discussion is overlooking -- focused as it is, on electric energy supply (a fraction of total energy supply and demand) -- is the low hanging fruit of increasing energy efficiency. There is so much room for improvement in the efficiency with which we use energy. In transportation of course, but especially in heating and cooling and lighting our societies built spaces -- both commercial, industrial & residential. Building heating, cooling & lighting accounts for the lion's share of all energy use (usually measured in units of Quads -- quadrillion Btus); in fact this area amounts to almost half of all energy use (around 40% -- if I recall the percentage figure). A country like the USA could use half as much energy as it currently does -- if it did so more efficiently -- and still enjoy the same level of heating, cooling, lighting and mobility as we are currently enjoying. Trying to increase supplies -- or shift to renewable supplies -- makes little sense if not also paired with a serious attempt at ramping up energy efficiency. Just simple acts insulating ceilings, floors and walls; like caulking cracks around windows etc. and closing up these many tiny air leaks from buildings, or replacing single pane windows with double or triple pane windows; or using energy efficient lighting can have major impacts in reducing energy requirements. So much of our built space is really crappy in terms of energy efficiency and lighting and the carbon impact of an aggressive national effort at ramping up energy efficiency would be larger than any other single thing we could do. This is not sexy stuff, it is rather low tech, but it does generate a lot of local jobs and provides almost immediate relief from high energy bills. Chris -----Original Message----- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:52 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World On 11/10/2013 1:26 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 10:12 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 10 November 2013 21:40, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote: >>> >>> Look, I hope global warming is not that serious, because if it is, >>> it's game over. Big government is most definitely not going to solve >>> it. I think you know this too. There isn't a magical point where to >>> government gets so big that it starts doing the right thing. If it's >>> very small, at least there's less opportunity for the already >>> ultra-rich to further their interests with our tax-money, like they >>> do at the moment. >>> >> There is however a point at which a problem gets so big that even >> politicians realise they should do something about it, for their own sakes. > But if the global warming models are correct, that is already too > late. If I understand the most common models correctly, it _is_ > already too late. Why don't you read what the IPCC reports actually say. It's too late keep CO2 below 450ppm. It's too late to prevent a temperature rise of 2degC. That doesn't mean it's too late to save civilization. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
