What I say is that atheism is NOT an option. Not only because Chesterton said that anyone who does nor believe in God will en up believing in anything, but also because that is in the structure of the human mind as is know by personal introspection (the greek philosophers), historical experiience (any religion-less community that lasted?) and by game theoretical+ evolutionary reasons that i tried to explain here.
At the moment that you reject a deity, you accept other. The religion of atheists is quite similar to a primitive religion because religion emerges in its primitive form when you reject your own. But the human mind can not work with impersonal myths. Whenever impersonal myths are created, exist also personal entities that become myts. Normally the ones that created these myths of fighted for them. The most primitive form is the cult to the personality, that is the cult to a living god-man. Who was the leader of the tribu, whose actions are mtified and celebrated. Of course this is the worst of all kinds of religions. That happens ever when a society tried to establish itself in abstract principles, being them comunism, equality, progress, rule of law, evolution etc. As an example, after the cult to Hitler, Marx, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jon II, Castro.. and many others.. the modern cult to Darwin http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/ep055269.pdf Incidentally the reason why the cult to Lincoln, Jefferson etc is so weak is because the American constitution IS a constitution under a personal God. 2013/12/2 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> > > > > On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Government by the Rule of Law (of physics) I would say. >> > > Ok, but here I think "government" is meant as some pre-existing > complexity. While the laws of physics are simpler than their outcome, the > christian god is more complex that its outcome. And, rephrasing what Liz > said, we never found any evidence of higher complexity downstream. > > >> >> There is much much in the relation between the republican idea of >> society, and pragmatical atheism of the contractualists Hobbes, rousseau, >> Locke (let the state work without religion), that later became ideological >> (atheism is the religion of the state). >> >> The idea of ruling society by laws was probably inspired by newtonian >> phisics (but not by newtonian theology) and the market economy. what is >> initially science or experience can become a myth that organize a society. >> >> But this gobernment by rules is a hopeful ideal. In other words, a myth. >> But a myth necessary for the state religion. Whenever there are laws there >> is a sovereingh lawyers. "The people" in "democracy" is such lawyer say the >> modern wishfulthinker. That is nothing but another two myths. hypostases, >> something that does not exist bu in the mind by an effort of faith for the >> purpose of social cooperation. >> >> So to summarize, the human mind can not live withouth myths. If he reject >> the given ones, he invent its own. >> > > I would say that it's society that can't live without myths, and we can't > live without society. Since we have no agency over society but we depend on > it for survival, we must be part of a super-organism. Some of our behaviour > has to be molecule-like, but our human minds want to feel they are in > control. So we post-rationalise. We haven't found a way for society to work > without dominance, so we rationalise this dominance in increasingly > sophisticated ways. In democracy, the dominated are accomplices in keeping > the illusion, because they want to reap the benefits of being subservient > without having to signal subservience. The voting ritual makes this > possible. Breaking such illusions is a very dangerous proposition, as we've > seen in Europe in the first half or the 20th century (early republicanism > broke the monarchy illusion but quickly degrading into fascism -- fascism > had more powerful binding myths to offer, and a lesson had to be learned). > Of course, as you point out, republics come with a myth set of their own. > > Modern law is a very sophisticated, if perverse system. Many laws are not > meant to be followed. They are used to post-rationalise punishment for > breaking unwritten rules that nobody wants to acknowledge but all want to > enforce. > > Telmo. > > >> >> >> >> 2013/12/1 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> >> >>> Because there are no obvious signs of government in the universe, I >>> would say. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2 December 2013 10:29, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>>> How can a grown man be an atheist ? >>>> >>>> An atheist is a person who believes that the universe can >>>> function without some form of government. >>>> >>>> How silly. >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] >>>> See my Leibniz site at >>>> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> <http://www.avast.com/> >>>> >>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! >>>> Antivirus<http://www.avast.com/>protection is active. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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