On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: > Science has no dogma, because everything can be discussed and questionned...
That is philosophy. Science is more narrow -- and it should be. Science is empiricism. It is restricted to the domains of knowledge where hypothesis can be rejected by performing experiences. But the idea that all knowledge can be obtained in this fashion is dogma. I love science, and I find positivism almost insulting, because it throws science back to realms of superstition that I find abhorrent. On the contrary, honest science can be used to dispel ugly falsehoods (or, as Carl Sagan called them, demons), and I love it for that. It is trivially truth that private experience is real -- in fact it is the thing I am most certain of. The only thing I can be absolutely certain of. But part of this experience is not communicable, so it cannot be completely investigated using the scientific method. This is so problematic to the proponents of "science as the only acceptable form of inquiry", that they go as far as rejecting the existence of first person experience. This is mysticism of the same level of absurdity of any silly religious dogma you can think of. > On the contrary, religions *must* have some part that can't be discussed, Independently of the use of the term "religion", our search for knowledge must necessarily include parts that cannot be discussed. Some serious attempts at communicating private experience take the form of art, for example. Art is forever imperfect in this regard, but there is at least pleasure in making the attempt. And maybe some opportunity for transcendence. As there is opportunity for transcendence in science and technology. The human experience is not compartmentalised. There is transcendence in seeing the first space shuttle take off. It's a moving experience. I dare say religious in the good sense. > you can't say you're catholic if you don't believe jesus was the son of > god... you can't say you're buddhist and reject what the buddha said. But real search for transcendence has nothing to do with court-like decisions of what you can say or not. You have the same problem with science. There is science the method of inquiry and science the human institution. In the latter, there are things you cannot reject -- things that go beyond the scientific method -- if you want membership. The lack of compartmentalisation has an ugly side. By fighting religious fundamentalists, many scientists become fundamentalists themselves, and close themselves to the serious discussion of certain hot topics. > So no, science has no dogma and is not based on dogma but on hypothesis. Science cannot get rid of fundamental ontological and epistemological assumptions. Pretending that these assumption are not there corrupts science. Telmo. > Quentin > > > 2013/12/6 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> > >> The dogma that "science" (in the very narrow sense used today for such >> world) is not dogma is the foundation stone of one of the most sucessful >> modern religions: scientism. >> >> That is wonderful since there is no knowledge possible without initial >> postulates or "dogmas" as you may call it. This erasure of dogmas of >> "science" is the most sucessful campaing of disinformation ever. Simply by >> discrediting and prohibiting metaphysics and pulling philosophy out of the >> sciences. >> >> >> 2013/12/5 Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> >>> >>> A religion is based on dogma, science is not, hence science is not a >>> religion. >>> >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/5 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> I believe in science. >>>> That is my religion. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> > you can not live without a form of religion >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Speak for yourself, I've been living without religion since i was 12. >>>>> >>>>> John K Clark >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >>> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
