On 06 Dec 2013, at 13:52, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Science comes from latin and means knowledge...
*that* *is* *the* error of the "latine". They "misunderstanding" of
the greeks and indians.
For the platonist, and the popperians notably, science is *only*
beliefs, public theories,
I would be a more severe teacher, I would ask you to present them in
first order languages and theories (which is tiedous but easily
feasible for a large part of the current science (set of beliefs in
fashion today).
Science is not "ma = KmM/r^2".
Science (well understood) is only "ma = KmM/r^2?"
Science is not universe
Science is not multiverse
Science is universe?, multiverse? something else?, ...
They are quite important longstanding theories in which we believe and
there is nothing wrong in building on them, but we must be able to
retrieve beliefs to stand the facts and the theories assumed.
There is no "science". There are only field of inquiries, and humans
having a scientific attitude. Scientific attitude is field
independent. Research can be refrained only by abuse of authority.
Genuine believer hides nothing and don't fear reason.
To separate science and theology is like saying "OK !, on the ultra-
fundamental questions we tolerate the dogma, the authoritative
argument, the arbitrariness, etc.". That is like forbidding research,
and the application of reason, in a field, to perpetuate the
oppression of the authoritative argument in it.
With comp, theological truth extends science, but that extension is
relative, and machine with big provability means, like ZF, can study
the theology of the simpler machines, like PA. As far as lifting such
theology on oneself is an entirely personal matter and an ability of
recognizing one self in an other.
Keep in mind that as a platonist, the theology associated to the
machine M is the truth about the machine M (the set of true
arithmetical sentence concerning machine M). The whole truth. Not just
what the NSA could collected. The whole truth ands its determination
in the most probable continuations. It can be the set of all
diophantine equation solved with M as parameter, for example). That a
very complex non computable set.
In fact the theology gives what you can hope assuming you are correct
(including on the substitution level for example).
But "theology" here is a fundamental science, made indirectly testable
by giving constraints (at the least) on physics, making the law
basically invariant for the choice of the base phi_i, for example.
I am agnostic. But I do believe in elementary arithmetic, and this
astonished me, and makes me suspect of something.
if some wants to use science as a cover for something else, that
doesn't redefine what it is... science is an attitude towards
pursuit of knowledge...
I agree with this. Again why not favor that attitude in all domains?
No need of ontological commitment. Only hypotheses and an open mind
and a listening to the others, taking into account that the subject is
a bit taboo, for historical and psychologically normal reasons.
To separate theology from science seems spiritually immature to me.
For religion, it is perhaps different. Like Plotinus I am skeptical on
theurgy, unless they do succeed in doing it with the right sense of
humor, if spiritually mature enough. No problem with celebrations and
contemplations, and sharing of technics and theories. But I am not
sure, abuse can lead to brainwashing by repetitions.
Bruno
Quentin
2013/12/6 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
2013/12/6 Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>
Science has no dogma, because everything can be discussed and
questionned...
So science is the art of discussing and questioning everything?
That is like saying nothing.
In the other side, one thing is the activity of science, other the
different schools of science, other the different sciences and other
the science believer, another the commited positivist, the public
institution payed relativist that gives advice to politicians etc.
Are you telling me that there are no dogmas in all these fauna?
On the contrary, religions *must* have some part that can't be
discussed, you can't say you're catholic if you don't believe jesus
was the son of god... you can't say you're buddhist and reject what
the buddha said.
So no, science has no dogma and is not based on dogma but on
hypothesis.
Quentin
2013/12/6 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
The dogma that "science" (in the very narrow sense used today for
such world) is not dogma is the foundation stone of one of the most
sucessful modern religions: scientism.
That is wonderful since there is no knowledge possible without
initial postulates or "dogmas" as you may call it. This erasure of
dogmas of "science" is the most sucessful campaing of disinformation
ever. Simply by discrediting and prohibiting metaphysics and
pulling philosophy out of the sciences.
2013/12/5 Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com>
A religion is based on dogma, science is not, hence science is not a
religion.
2013/12/5 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com>
I believe in science.
That is my religion.
On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Alberto G. Corona
<agocor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> you can not live without a form of religion
Speak for yourself, I've been living without religion since i was 12.
John K Clark
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