Hi Jason,
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:03 AM, Stephen Paul King < > stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> I would like to know the definition of "reality" that you are using >> here. >> > > Reality I normally define as "that which exists". > How is it that you can have knowledge of "what which exists"? Is your mind somehow a map of "all that exists"? Even if it was, the set of computations that is your mind is some measure zero subset. So how is it that your claim stands? That which exists cannot be contingent, just as the primeness of 17 is not contingent. Right? > > >> Here is mine: *That which is incontrovertible for some collection of >> observers that can communicate*. >> > > So if there was a lone being in a universe would that being not have a > reality? Is there no reality for deaf, illiterate, mutes? > A lone being in a universe has, by definition, no one to communicate with thus has no constraints on its state of being. What is it? Everything. By definition. My definition does not have this problem. > > >> This definition requires interactions and thus requires some form of >> primitive becoming. Platonia does not change. Explain why there is an >> appearance of change that does not involve some reference to the natural >> ordering of the integers. Please. >> > > It's not the natural ordering of the integers, but the natural ordering of > each step in the states of a computation. Though, even this does not > necessarily guarantee a "time-like" experience. To experience time as we > do requires some memory and comparison between different states, and > perhaps some ignorance of future states. > What? What is the difference? How many ways are there to obtain a natural ordering of " each step in the states of a computation"? What is doing the mapping from that particular computation to the Integers? Is it the integers? How? This is not an answer to my question. What determines the measure of change if change does not exist? If everything is "in Platonia" there is no change at all, and neither is any measure of what does not exist. Platonia has a Problem, Huston. > > >> >> >> Once we allow for Godel numbers, how can we still claim to use the >> natural order of the integers? >> > > I wasn't using this. > So what distinguishes one program from another? > > >> We have already shown that a random sequence of numbers is a computation. >> > > When? > When we considered that the string that 'is' a computation can be encrypted by a one time pad or a randomly chosen godel numbering scheme. There is no unique universal Godel numbering! > > >> Where do we find a "random sequence" in the naturally ordered string of >> Integers? >> > > It is not clear to me what you are asking. > > Does there exist a random string in the sequence of integers? > Jason > > >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Stephen Paul King < >>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi LizR, >>>> >>>> This is fun! :-) We must remember that we are defining People as >>>> intersections of infinitely many computations. Right? Their perceptions of >>>> themselves as physical being having some particular set of configuration, >>>> for example bilateral symmetry, etc. is not really relevant to UDA. So, if >>>> there is a change in accessibility to data, facts, etc. Where is that >>>> "change" coming from". >>>> >>>> This is my problem: We are presented with an argument that works in >>>> Platonia and we have no explanation as to the relation it has with the >>>> "real world" where things change and degrade and evolve, etc. What is >>>> measuring that change? >>>> >>> >>> If the argument is correct there is no other reality but Platonia. The >>> "real world" is a product of the computations in platonia. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:49 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 28 December 2013 17:46, Stephen Paul King < >>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ah, but they do degrade. Consider your ability to access a '80s >>>>>> floppy drive's data. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, that's because people haven't worked out how to do it >>>>> perfectly. I agree digital archaeology is a real problem, but so would >>>>> analogue be without the relevant machines to play it back (admittedly it's >>>>> easier to decode analogue from first principles). But that is a different >>>>> form of degrading. If you have a system capable of copying the data it >>>>> should be more or less 100% accurate. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:44 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 28 December 2013 17:41, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Stephen Paul King < >>>>>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi LizR and Jason, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Responding to both of you. I don't understand the claim of >>>>>>>>> determinism is "random noise" is necessary for the computations. >>>>>>>>> Turing >>>>>>>>> machines require exact pre-specifiability. Adding noise oracles is >>>>>>>>> cheating! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you misunderstand. Computers are deterministic, but they >>>>>>>> often need randomness to implement things such as cryptography or >>>>>>>> monte-carlo simulations, etc. Due to this need for true >>>>>>>> unpredictability, >>>>>>>> our computers must harness environmental noise if they are to have any >>>>>>>> hope >>>>>>>> of being unpredictable. This is because computers cannot generate >>>>>>>> unpredictability on their own. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They are engineered not to! This is why digital recordings don't >>>>>>> degrade, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/sqWzozazMg0/unsubscribe >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Kindest Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephen Paul King >>>>>> >>>>>> Senior Researcher >>>>>> >>>>>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099 >>>>>> >>>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.provensecure.us/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> “This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the >>>>>> use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain >>>>>> information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential and >>>>>> exempt from disclosure under applicable law or may be constituted as >>>>>> attorney work product. 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If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, notify sender immediately and delete this message immediately.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
