Liz, Liz, Liz! OK, now you ADMIT that neither Newton or Einstein believed in block time. Thanks!
Your claim that their theories imply (thanks for using the soft imply rather than prove) block time is just your erroneous interpretation in an attempt to lend weight to your own belief. Your use of the Laplace quote to corroborate that is wonderful since if you actually read it Laplace specifically mentions "the PRESENT STATE of the universe" indicating that Laplace accepts a present moment like nearly everyone on earth does. That's a direct REFUTATION of belief in block time by Laplace himself! So your quote actually proves the exact OPPOSITE of what you claim it does. The fact that time is a 4th dimension does NOT either require or imply block time. Everyone and everything is always at only ONE place in time exactly the same as they are always at ONE place in space. That one place is the present moment. True the past is a 4th dimension but we do NOT LIVE in the past. We live in the present. We exist in the present, not in the past nor the future. That's the correct understanding of the 4-dimensional universe and I'm pretty sure both Newton and Einstein understood this.... Block time requires that everything is at MULTIPLE points in time from when its created to when it vanishes. Relativity does NOT require nor imply block time. In fact when the fact that everything continually travels through spacetime at the speed of light is taken into account relativity FALSIFIES block time because that requires everything to be at one and only one position in time, and that means that there is a present moment for everything. And this is directly confirmable through observation, the exact same kind and status of observation that all science is based upon. It really couldn't be any simpler... Edgar On Monday, February 3, 2014 7:19:42 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: > > On 4 February 2014 12:44, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net <javascript:>>wrote: > >> Liz, >> >> You keep repeating your UNSUBSTANTIATED claim that both Newton and >> Einstein believed in block time. >> > > It isn't a question of belief. Newtonian and Einsteinian machanics both > imply the existence of a block universe. > > I've repeatedly asked you to substantiate this claim with some actual >> quotes from them but you have been unable to do so. >> > Please provide quotes substantiating this or withdraw the claim. That's >> only fair... >> > > Obviously Newton didn't use that phrase. Equally obviously it's implied by > his equations, as Laplace realised. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon > > We may regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past > and the cause of its future. An intellect which at a certain moment would > know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items > of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to > submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the > movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest > atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just > like the past would be present before its eyes. > —Pierre Simon Laplace, *A Philosophical Essay on > Probabilities*[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon#cite_note-Truscott-3> > > Einstein's equations shows that space-time is a 4D manifold, as Minkowski > pointed out. His "canonical" quote on this is: > > The views of space and time which I wish to lay before you have sprung >> from the soil of experimental physics, and therein lies their strength. >> They are radical. Henceforth space by itself, and time by itself, are >> doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two >> will preserve an independent reality. >> > > >> — Hermann Minkowski >> > > Otherwise, just read papers on the subject of SR. It isn't a secret that > SR treats space-time as a 4D manifold. > > Here is an introduction to the subject: > > http://www.phy.syr.edu/courses/modules/LIGHTCONE/minkowski.html > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
