On 08 Feb 2014, at 01:40, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 7:33:28 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
On 8 February 2014 07:48, Bruno Marchal <mar...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 21:43, LizR wrote:
Because Turing universality is a mathematical notion.
It has nothing to do with physics.
I must admit I was quite surprised by this. I thought you generally
argue that physics can be extracted from comp, and TU is part of
comp (isn't it?)
Ys, but that is why it is meaningfull to say that we derive physics
from zero physical assumption.
We derive physics from TU, which is defined in pure arithmetic, and
has indeed no relation at all with physics *in his definition*. It
involves only 0, successor, and the * and + laws, nothing else.
Of course arithmetic and TU has something to do with physics, *at
some level*, assuming comp, and well, in the psychology or theology
of the TUs, which is itself derived from arithmetical self-reference.
But this means that physics has some plausible relation with the UT.
The UT itself, at his definition level, is a purely arithmetical
notion.
OK?
Yes, of course. I was getting the cart before the horse, as they
say. TU has nothing to do with physics but physics may have
something to do with TU.
How do you know it has nothing to do with physics? It seems clear to
me that the behaviors of integers, memory, etc. are rooted in
familiarity with a particular macroscopic physics.
That is possible, even with comp, but it is a metatheory on the
relation between human and number. To define the number, you don't
need to invoke anything physical.
Building a Turing machine only out of emotions or fog or empty space
is not possible.
Proof? (that statement is extra-ordinary, and so requires a clear and
quite extra-ordinary proof).
Bruno
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