On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Kim Jones <kimjo...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > > On 15 Feb 2014, at 1:09 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > > On 2/14/2014 4:24 PM, Kim Jones wrote: > > > On 14 Feb 2014, at 3:42 pm, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> > wrote: > > What about the CMBR? When it was created there were (presumably) no > > observers in existence in the universe. Are you saying it wouldn't exist if > we hadn't evolved to detect it (e.g. if humans hadn't evolved, or if we had > never invented radio telescopes) ? > > > Yes - exactly. > > > > > A direct consequence of The Reversal. First comes Mind. Physics and > matter and the 3D holographic farmyard are a long way down the road. > I hope no one is assuming that it requires something as weird as a "human" > to implement consciousness. > Something as basic as a Boltzmann brain would be in principle, instantly > possible in any universe, surely. > > > > Of course Boltzmann brains are notoriously transient, so we're to think of > the universe (or at least pieces of past light cones) blinking in and out > of existence. Or does that take a Boltzmann brain plus optic nerves and > eyes and a Boltzmann telescope? > > Brent > > > A mind without a "hosting apparatus" is the entity I am struggling to > describe. I have no trouble with the notion that consciousness can simply > exist with no extra qualifiers whatsoever. We are talking about that which > simply exists - when it exists, where it exists, its characteristics etc. > are another story. I don't know whether such questions are even relevant. > Recently the Harvard group of physicists led by Lisa Randall are proposing that dark matter is like the light/electric matter that we observe, in that dark matter may contain dark atoms and dark chemistry based on a dark charge and a dark version of electromagnetic theory including dark photons. Given this hypothesis, they predict that galactic dark matter may be in the form of a double disk that in principle can be observed. However the implications of their work are much less cosmic- a sector of dark matter may consist of essentially a mirror world to our visible world with a host of religious possibilities as well as a host for the mind, that they are reluctant to mention in print. http://arxiv.org/abs/1303.1521 There are several other groups pursuing the same hypothesis. My personal conjecture is that dark charge and dark photons may be the basis of a dark consciousness. That is, fundamentally dark consciousness is a dark charge just like electricity is a light or electric charge and that dark consciousness may be entangled with our waking, dreaming and perhaps subconsciousness via BECs in either sector such as what Penrose proposes for microtubules. Of course this is a kind of dualism that most of this list reject. But I do not see where it is inconsistent with comp. The dark atoms, if they exist, have mass and therefore are just as physical as us, just invisible. Randall, etal. calculate that the mass in the dark-atom sector is comparable to the visible mass of the visible sector. Richard > > Kim > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
